10 - Lionel Messi - v5

Stoichkov1

New member
Told you already that question makes no sense.

Flip it back at you. In a season that a team who is lucky wins the CL who is the best team in the world?

You still haven't explained why that question makes no sense.

The best team in the world is the one that wins the league with the highest coefficient and that has a good run in the CL.

Which was the best team in the world in 2012?
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
You still haven't explained why that question makes no sense.

The best team in the world is the one that wins the league with the highest coefficient and that has a good run in the CL.

Which was the best team in the world in 2012?

Real probably best in 2012.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
The rule is that I answer your questions and you answer mine.

Why that question makes no sense?

Which was the best team in the world in 2012?

The question makes no sense and discussing teams from same league anyway so irrelevant.

Real probably in 2012.

Won toughest league.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
If managers, players, and journalists all truly believed that domestic league > CL in terms of difficulty and accomplishment then Ronaldo wouldn't have even sniffed the Balon D'or in 2016. Barca won La liga, Barca won CDR, Messi was better individually in both of those competitions. The ONLY thing Ronaldo had over Messi was the CL.

And guess what? Not only did Ronaldo win the Balon D'or, he won it with more than DOUBLE Messi's votes (745 to 316). Don't ever spew horseshit about footballing personas believing that domestic league >>> CL.
 

Stoichkov1

New member
The question makes no sense and discussing teams from same league anyway so irrelevant.

Real probably in 2012.

Won toughest league.

A good run in the CL is going to the semifinals or to the final or going out early but against a team with a good coefficient or that will progress to the semifinals/final.

Still you didn't answer why the question makes no sense.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
If managers, players, and journalists all truly believed that domestic league > CL in terms of difficulty and accomplishment then Ronaldo wouldn't have even sniffed the Balon D'or in 2016. Barca won La liga, Barca won CDR, Messi was better individually in both of those competitions. The ONLY thing Ronaldo had over Messi was the CL.

And guess what? Not only did Ronaldo win the Balon D'or, he won it with more than DOUBLE Messi's votes (745 to 316). Don't ever spew horseshit about footballing personas believing that domestic league >>> CL.

So you agree that Ronaldo beasting it in those games in knock outs makes him the better player overall that season?

Your speaking shite again min.

Have already said CL is seen as more prestigious but the bigger barometer of better sides and two from each country is the league.

Go back to Coutinho thread and tell everyone how shit he is. You dont have a clue.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
A good run in the CL is going to the semifinals or to the final or going out early but against a team with a good coefficient or that will progress to the semifinals/final.

Still you didn't answer why the question makes no sense.

Because we are discussing two teams from same country and I did say that.

So you agree Real were best in 2012 due to winning the league. All good.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
So you agree that Ronaldo beasting it in those games in knock outs makes him the better player overall that season?

Your speaking shite again min.

Have already said CL is seen as more prestigious but the bigger barometer of better sides and two from each country is the league.

Go back to Coutinho thread and tell everyone how shit he is. You dont have a clue.

What a weak and desperate straw-man you've been clinging to for months to deflect and steer away the discussion when your actual argument is blatant rubbish. Just deflecting from yet another stupid opinion which you've got a fair share of akin to "keeping Cesc and selling Thiago the 4th choice mid was the right call" or "Neymar best player in the world" or "Dele Alli would be an elite deep lying midfielder" lmao.

This too is an utter rubbish claim that you have made next to no solid arguments in favor of.... Head to head?? Gimme a break. No one uses head to head as an indicator in the overall performance of a season other than as a tie breaker, matchups/tactics/context all skew that greatly.

Since the beginning of 14/15 RM have won 10 total trophies to our 9. 2 CL trophies to 1 and have made the CL finals in 2 years and semifinals in the other year compared to 2 quarterfinal exits and 1 finals appearance. Equal in league points up until this season. We even handicapped a CDR title without having to play them due to disqualification. I even gave you a more flattering example for Barca based on the timescale. If you extend this timeframe back 1 year further it looks even WORSE for us as they have a 3rd CL win and finals appearance while we had yet ANOTHER quarterfinals exit. To anyone else except you those CL wins would have a lot of extra weight as it is clearly BY FAR the most prestigious club competition in the world. And winning 3 titles in 4 years is not "just a handful of games" it is a trend across multiple seasons and NO ONE else has won CL's that frequently in a short period.

You're even over here trying to shit on Stoichkov1 saying "La Liga's isn't about total points accumulated and margins of a few games but rather # of titles won" and then double standard the exact opposite for the CL with "oh but it's not about having 3 titles in 4 years but rather just a handful of games in their favor". What a substandard demonstration of "logic".

Please go to any neutral site and make these same claims of "Barca better than RM in the past 3 years" or "Barca better starting XI than RM in 16/17". It would be genuinely embarrassing and you would get absolutely eviscerated for saying it if they even bothered to give your opinion attention in the first place.

And for the record I don't agree at all that Ronaldo was better in 2016. But you were making grand claims on behalf of "football managers" and the like, the 2016 Balon D'or is as definitive proof as you could get otherwise. Domestic comps all favored Messi, CL favored Ronaldo and that gave him the Balon D'or by a RECORD MARGIN of votes. That's what people actually believe. Not your utter BS.

You are a master troll tho I'll give you that :lol:
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Yeah but for example I don't agree in 2002 when Real won the CL and finished 3rd in la liga.

Which is irrelevant.

Barca have been the best team in Spain past few years we both agree on that.

Real have been better in a more random and shorter format tournament where their big players have turned up.

There is nothing from that to say Real have the superior squad.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Yip my 'grand claims' about football managers are correct.

Go tell us how shite Coutinho, Valverde is shit and Barca are heading for being next AC Milan.

Make sure you go back and delete them all though.

Barca have been the better team domestically in terms of trophies and head to head.
 
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Stoichkov1

New member
Which is irrelevant.

Barca have been the best team in Spain past few years we both agree on that.

Real have been better in a more random and shorter format tournament where their big players have turned up.

There is nothing from that to say Real have the superior squad.

We are arguing again about the same subject.

Again I think that Barca has been slightly better than real in Spain(as for me points and not titles are more important) and dominant in head to head matches.

Again you said that based on the CL I can't claim that Real have the superior squad and again I tell you that you can't claim that Barca has the superior squad if Real wins 3-0 or 4-1 against the same opponents that we fail to beat.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
What a weak and desperate straw-man you've been clinging to for months to deflect and steer away the discussion when your actual argument is blatant rubbish. Just deflecting from yet another stupid opinion which you've got a fair share of akin to "keeping Cesc and selling Thiago the 4th choice mid was the right call" or "Neymar best player in the world" or "Dele Alli would be an elite deep lying midfielder" lmao.


DonAndres you are making things up again.

All three of those claims are lies.

Not even straw man just lies.

Go back and delete more of the shite you spoke about Coutinho as per usual you cant judge a player worth a fuck. Clueless.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
We are arguing again about the same subject.

Again I think that Barca has been slightly better than real in Spain(as for me points and not titles are more important) and dominant in head to head matches.

Again you said that based on the CL I can't claim that Real have the superior squad and again I tell you that you can't claim that Barca has the superior squad if Real wins 3-0 or 4-1 against the same opponents that we fail to beat.

No titles are far more important than points.

Real could have more points but three titles v one is what it is all about.

Stop making things up now. I have said there is not much between the squads in recent years. Good lad.
 

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