"Euros with Portugal".
Let's pretend that it's the not the worst campaign by any Euro winner in the history of football.
Let's pretend Ronaldo played the same way for Portugal as he did for RM.
Let's pretend Manchester United didn't reach CL final after he left.
Let's pretend this Barca team will win CL if you replace Messi with Ronaldo.
I love Barca, Messi and everything, but when we are not good and when we screwed big time, and again, for me, this is the most painful and the most dumbest CL defeat since 2005, I will say it and I will attack all of our players if needed.
For the record, I need to add that I am CL-biased.
I don't care THAT much about La liga (I mean, I do want that we win it, but still, in my eyes, La Liga is nowhere even close to a CL).
I am watching Barca's La liga matches each weekend, but for me, the whole preseason, season and all transfers sagas are just an introduction to the most important part of a season: CL knockout rounds in March, April and May.
For me personally, CL alone is way more important than La Liga+CDR+Spanish Supercup+Euro supercup+World club championship.
CL is THE ONLY tournament out there where ALL big boys are playing and where everyone plays with 120%.
Further, a lot of our fans act so childish, like:
1. Portugal was lucky, whine whine whine
Euros were bad
Cr7 didn't play, blah blah
2. Real was lucky in last CLs, blah blah
Now, sit down, breathe deeply and remember:
1. 1992: our first ever CL title:
In the 2nd round (16 teams left, knockout matches), we played against Kaiserslautern from Germany.
In the first home match, we won 2:0.
In the 2nd leg, we were losing 0:3 in the 78'th minute and we were on a verge of elimination (as always).
Bakero scored a goal for 3:1 in the 90th minute after a set piece.
So, we were on a verge of elimination in the round of 16, and were saved by a lucky goal in the 90th minute:
** btw, Barca conceding easy goals after corners due to short players, as always. The same old story for 30 years in a row.
Further, in a final, we won 1:0 against Sampdoria with Koeman's free kick goal in extra time.
So, you can't call a year 1992 of a year where we actually dominated.
We were lucky in early rounds, and we won in a final with a free kick goal.
So, that title is the same as all RM's or Portugal's titles.
2. a year 2006, our 2nd CL ever. Messi was a teen then.
Against Chelsea, we were gifted a slightly too harsh red card on Messi.
Without that red card, who knows whether we would ever break "Barca's CL's curse" that year.
In a final, we were somewhat gifted a red card for Arsenal's keeper, to some extent.
It could have been a yellow card and a pen, easily.
If I am not mistaken, that kind of "a double punishment" (a pen and a red card) is not an option anymore in football.
3. a year 2009, Chelsea:Barca. Uefalona, a few penalties forgiven and Barca scoring a lucky goal, from our only shot on goal in the 93rd minute.
So, a help from refs, huge injustice if we want to be honest, and an insanely lucky goal in the dying seconds.
So, you see, when I am reading some posts here, I may get an impression how Barca won all CL titles with winning 12:0 on aggreggate, and how we were never lucky, how we never scored late lucky goals or how refs or a draw were never on our side.
On the other hand, RM is "always" lucky, with easy draws, lucky goals, opponents who are choking, Euros who are the worst Euros ever etc.
I will not go deeper now and say who is luckier, we or RM, but the point is:
1. both Barca and Real are extremely lucky sometimes with late goals, a help from a ref, gifted red cards for opponents and similar
2. both Barca and Real are sometimes unlucky for 100s of different reasons
So, imo, these stories how everything what RM, CR7 or Portugal achieved is luck, a weak tournament and similar are just childish or cule-based replies.
If you want to be objective and remove Real-Barca glasses, then the situation is NOT as black and white as it seems in some posts here.
BBZ8800 you can't give champions league ten points and la liga only 3. La liga proves who is on form throughout the year not just a couple of months near the end. Sometimes you don't get as many tough games in the champions league as la liga e.g real Madrids run in 2016. Sometimes it's about form at a particular time of year in the champions league. Remember Barca can't stop beating atletico in the league and beating them to titles but lose two champions league ties to them. I think one or even the two were after the front 3 had tough south American world cup qualifiers. Champions league is a knockout competition and the best don't always win those. And if you're giving 20 points for the world cup then Messi deserves 15 for getting to the final
For the beginning, I AM BARCA's FAN, but...
Some things need to be said.
I said a lot of times on different threads that La Liga and a CL are different competitions, both with some pros and cons.
For example, La Liga:
1. you need to be consistent over 9 Months
2. you need to find a way how to beat inferior teams regularly
3. but also, there is no "sudden death" threat in La Liga. There is not THAT MUCH pressure.
For example, if you play a round 10 against Betis and you lose 2:3 at home, who cares?
You are not dead, you are not KO'd.
You will need to play better in the next rounds and you will neutralize that defeat.
Also, if you play El classico and lose 0:3, so what? You can still be a champion.
Also, the dumbest thing: you can lose BOTH El Classicos, and lose majority of matches against Real, Atletico and Sevilla and STILL end as a champion, because you were better in matches against small teams and you made less mistakes.
This is why I would describe La liga as: a competition without too much pressure, without a sudden death, a competition where mistakes are allowed and not deadly, and where a champion is a team who will make LESS mistakes over 9 Months.
In a CL, on the other hand:
1. sudden death is always there.
If you lose 0:3 against Roma, you are out and dead.
You won't get a new chance 7 days later against Leganes to fix the mistakes from the previous round.
Also, in a CL knockout rounds, you don't play against Leganes and Getafe. And more or less: ALL matches are against big boys.
So, in La Liga: you can lose against RM and AM, but win all matches against Getafe, Levante and Las Palmas and still be a champion.
You can't do that in a CL.
If you play against AM and if you lose against AM, you are dead. You can't be a champion. Again, unlike in La Liga, where you can be a champion even if you lose against big boys and regardless of how many times you slip during a season.
This is why for a CL knockout rounds, you need way better mental strength and there is no room for a mistake.
When a match starts, there is always a possibility hanging above your head that in 90 minutes you will be out and that a season is over.
That never happens in La liga...
I have wrote a similar comparison in Pep's thread.
Look at him.
It is clear as a day that he has found a winning formula HOW to win La Liga or league championships.
He found a way how to bully Getafe, Stoke and other teams and how to create a 10 points advantage.
On the other hand, when it comes to a CL knockout rounds, majority of Pep's teams turn into chokers and they lose more or less every knockout match.
Last year they conceded 6 goals, this year they conceded 5.
Or look at Barca's last 6 CL exists in away matches:
2012: Chelsea 0:1
2013: Bayern 0:4
2014: Atletico 0:1
2016: Atletico 0:2
2017: Juventus 0:3
2018: Roma 0:3
Our last 6 CL exits in away matches:
6 matches, 6 defeats.
Goals ratio 0:14
Do you know how many goals Barca scored in these 6 exits?
= 0
Do you know how many goals Messi scored in these 6 exits?
= 0
So, my idea is that Barca and our players are better at playing La Liga, we have a better formula against smaller La liga teams than Real, we are more consistent, and we play better when there is not too much pressure above our heads.
On the other hand, Real is weaker than us against smaller teams, but they are way better than us against European big boys in a CL, plus they cope way better under "sudden death" pressure above their heads.
So, both competitions have some pros and cons.
But at the end of a day:
Barca and Messi can't win against big boys in the last 7 years (except in 1 year).
Barca and Messi have huge problems in matches where a sudden death is possible.
Real have better mental strength in this moment to cope with pressure.
Remember Barca can't stop beating atletico in the league and beating them to titles but lose two champions league ties to them.
Again, if you think about it, maybe it is not a coincidence?
Barca will win in La Liga when there is no "sudden death" threat.
We are confident in those circumstances, because we will win over 38 rounds.
When there is a sudden death involved, we are lost and play like frightened kids and are eaten alive by AM's thugs.
On the other hand, RM plays like a crap against AM in LA Liga, but win easily in a sudden death match.
Interesting, right?
Also, the same as City and Pep's Bayern, right?
They are world class in league, when there is no sudden death.
City won 5:0 against Liverpool when there is no sudden death involved.
But when it comes to a CL knockout match, City suddenly plays like a team of frightened kids.
While Klopp's teams again suck in league, but play like monsters in knockout matches.
Liverpool is the same as Real.
Not consistent against small league opponents.
But, in the knockout rounds, they play like lions and they can KO anyone.
On the other hand, City and Barca are masters at winning against smaller teams.
But when it comes to playing 2 matches against big boys, we are neutralized by almost anyone.
Come on, we are not even losing losing to Bayern.
We lost to fckng Roma this time.
A team who hasn't reached a CL semis for 30 years.
Real created more chances against Juve without Ronaldo than we did against Roma.
Varane hit the post and Buffon had to make some saves.
We created nothing against Chelsea away and Messi was involved in all 3 goals at home and against Roma we scored thanks to 2 own goals.
Real is dependent on Ronaldo in CL, not in the league while Barca is dependent on Messi both in the league and in CL as it's proved by stats.
No team in the world has one player who scores the most goals in the team, gives the most assists and creates more chances than anyone else during a season.
Barcelona are nowhere near good enough to play fast paced matches like the one yesterday between Juve and Real. Our players crumble if the opponent press our defenders like it happened yesterday or in the first half against Real in December.
Just checked UEFA statistics and Real ran almost 112km while Juve ran 120km while we ran about 100-102 against Roma.
It's quite obvious our players can't mantain the same intensity compared to the players of other top teams in the world because they're too weak and slow physically.
Well, RM is creating more because they are NOT one dimensional like Barca.
In La liga, majority of opponents are of Mickey Mouse level and Barca will just bully them on possession and technique, like Pep's City in EPL.
So, for La liga, being one dimensional is NOT a bad thing, as long as you are awesome in that one trick which you are doing (possession, shortpasses, technique).
This is why Barca is good enough for La liga.
In a CL, proven times and times over and over, one dimensional possession based teams don't win anymore.
Anyone can stop our play: AM, Juve, PSG, Chelsea, fckng Roma lol.
Why is Barca creating less chances for years?
Because the opponents crowd the middle and we don't have any other solutions due to short players who can only play shortpasses through the middle.
And then, you have Real and even Roma (omg), who can play both a possession football and crosses (if they can't break the opponent through the middle).
And then these teams are creating chances easily.
Or way more easily than we are, who play like a one trick pony for the last 10 years.
So, it is hard to answer: whether Rm's players are creating more chances for CR7 because they are that good, or simply: because they are not as dumb as Barca and City who play their one trick pony game and then they struggle in all away matches in CL knockout rounds.
When Barca can't do anything through the middle, our Plan B is:
= well, just try to repeat the same thing 20 more time and hope that something will change
When Real, Juve, Roma and others can't break through the middle:
= they will just cross and create all sorts of dangers in the opponents box, especially against City and Barca, two teams with the shortest players in the world.
But anyway, this is Messi's thread, this is not a place for this debate.
