10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[Judoman]

For me personally, CL alone is way more important than La Liga+CDR+Spanish Supercup+Euro supercup+World club championship.

Just one question and i realise this is your personal ranking.

If CL is more important than everything else, than why did Madrid sacked 2 coaches after they won CL and failed to win La liga?

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah and what I'm asking is why you think Messi and Barca have been shit. I refuse to believe it's about the mentality, it's about the fact in CL teams play faster and run more and our players are too weak physically to cope with that pace.

I said 2 times I agree with you Real rely heavily on Ronaldo in CL. I was talking about this season and about all competitions.

In all competitions I agree Messi is better and produces more often than Ronaldo in CL Messi is poor for most part bar couple last 16 ties v EPL teams.

Dont know exact reaosn why the players look like shadows on themselves. Mentality, tactics etc all played a part I would say and individual players just not stepping up.

 

[NotInHere]

RM would be as successful without Cristiano? Wut, insane statements lol.

 

[JamDav1982]

We are a one trick pony team, who's attacking trick has been figured out and easily neutralized (by European teams) after 2011'.

I will give Messi a credit for that.
A part of a reason why his team is trophyless in a CL for years is because of our outdated tactics for the biggest stage.

We are blinded by good results against La liga minows.

Barca beat Real and Atletico in La Liga and Roma are not any better or any more tactically advanced than teams Barca face in league.

Real and Ronaldo look like they expect to win. Play with a strut and massive intensity.... led from front by Ronaldo.

Barca look like a team of sulky choir boys looking around for who to blame and not taking on responsibilty.

 

[fergus90]

Barca beat Real and Atletico in La Liga and Roma are not any better or any more tactically advanced than teams Barca face in league.

Real and Ronaldo look like they expect to win. Play with a strut and massive intensity.... led from front by Ronaldo.

Barca look like a team of sulky choir boys looking around for who to blame and not taking on responsibilty.

I have to agree, not once did I see any passion from the players after any of the goals went in, all just heads down.

To be honest it’s been the case for the last 2 years in Europe, we get rolled over easy and our response is to keep trying the same thing over and over that isn’t working anymore.

 

[Stoichkov1]

In all competitions I agree Messi is better and produces more often than Ronaldo in CL Messi is poor for most part bar couple last 16 ties v EPL teams.

Dont know exact reaosn why the players look like shadows on themselves. Mentality, tactics etc all played a part I would say and individual players just not stepping up.

Maybe because teams run more in CL and are more intense.

I doubt that for example Lucho changed tactics in 2016 when we faced Atletico in CL since Barca always win against them in the league.

 

[Shayan_barca]

Ronaldo is the only consistent goal scoring threat Madrid have.

I know we're supposed to hate Madrid and Ronaldo, but seriously, take the blinders off once in a while.

Madrid wouldn't come close to sniffing the CL without him.

I think madrid are by far favourites without ronaldo. Ronaldo is the only consistent goal scoring threat for the sole reason that the team is built to provide him with the ball, now dont get me wrong Ronaldo is a better goal scorer than anyone in their team, but without ronaldo bale, benzema etc. would be scoring more goals.

 

[Shayan_barca]

We cant compare the real madrid squad with the barcelona squad, or zidane with valverde.. they were down 2-0 what does zidane do? he bring on asensio and vazquez two attacking players at half time, he didnt risk defending, he wanted to score a goal and end the tie.. we were down 2-0 what does valverde do? he bring on andre gomes, when? in the last ten minutes of the game, only when we concede the third goal and we need a goal does he bring on two attacking players, but that was too late since there was only 5 minutes left.
Two days have passed since the game ended and i still cant believe the lack of tactical awareness valverde showed in that game, im certain that if dembele came on earlier we wouldnt have been knocked out

 

[Givenchy]

having the greatest player of this generation in your team doesn't mean you can neglect other positions. so many players in the squad give the ball to Messi and pray when shit hits the fan and when Messi is off form it leads to trouble. Alba, Raki, Suarez have all been guilty of this, heck, Alba looks for Messi almost every single time even at the behest of Suarez being in a better position.

we need more creativity and individulism in our players, i was hoping Dembele would be just that but no doubt his game will be restricted. Neymar had the same issue and could obviously offer so much more. the 442 formation is being used because we MUST play Messi AND Suarez. bring in Griezmann this summer and nothing will change if we persist like this, Messi is coming back into his own half at times to get the ball.. let the fucking midfield deal with it from time to time and help Suarez up front. this has been going on for so long now, it used to work but times change. Coutinho was bought to do that job but you watch next season, we'll still have Messi dropping deep to pick the ball up.

 

[Shayan_barca]

having the greatest player of this generation in your team doesn't mean you can neglect other positions. so many players in the squad give the ball to Messi and pray when shit hits the fan and when Messi is off form it leads to trouble. Alba, Raki, Suarez have all been guilty of this, heck, Alba looks for Messi almost every single time even at the behest of Suarez being in a better position.

we need more creativity and individulism in our players, i was hoping Dembele would be just that but no doubt his game will be restricted. Neymar had the same issue and could obviously offer so much more. the 442 formation is being used because we MUST play Messi AND Suarez. bring in Griezmann this summer and nothing will change if we persist like this, Messi is coming back into his own half at times to get the ball.. let the fucking midfield deal with it from time to time and help Suarez up front. this has been going on for so long now, it used to work but times change. Coutinho was bought to do that job but you watch next season, we'll still have Messi dropping deep to pick the ball up.

There was times in the game i saw messi coming back all the way to our defense line, he was playing behind semedo in order to get some balls

 

[Givenchy]

There was times in the game i saw messi coming back all the way to our defense line, he was playing behind semedo in order to get some balls

saw this aswell. in a game where you desperately need a goal, your best goalscorer should be near the opponents goal, not his own

whether this is Messi not trusting the midfield or him feeling he has to do everything im not sure but it needs to stop. Coutinho will do that job perfectly next season

 

[BarcaOG]

Suppose you're a neutral fan who generally enjoys European football without having a favourite team. Suppose you only began watching football seriously in 2014 (I choose this date because it includes Barca's 2015 CL triumph). Based on what evidence and logic would such a fan conclude that Messi is in fact the best player in the world right now, this year and the previous few? If you put your Barca glasses down, it'd be difficult to. The fact that CR won a Euro only complicates it further.

 

[JamDav1982]

saw this aswell. in a game where you desperately need a goal, your best goalscorer should be near the opponents goal, not his own

whether this is Messi not trusting the midfield or him feeling he has to do everything im not sure but it needs to stop. Coutinho will do that job perfectly next season

He had a very good chance to score even then.

 

[KingLeo10]

We are a one trick pony team, who's attacking trick has been figured out and easily neutralized (by European teams) after 2011'.

I will give Messi a credit for that.
A part of a reason why his team is trophyless in a CL for years is because of our outdated tactics for the biggest stage.

We are blinded by good results against La liga minows.

worked plenty in 2015. we mowed down all big teams in the path. the talent of the players and their conditioning/motivation is the main issue. the tactical naivety of managers is a lesser one. lucho wasn't some wizard yet we were the strongest team in the world for a year under him.

also, you said you started supporting barca somewhere in the 80s or 90s right? well, since the time you've supported barca, here are the respective CL wins by historic clubs:

Real - 6
Barca - 5
Milan - 5
Bayern - 2!!
Inter Milan - 1
Juventus - 1
Man United - 2

I would suggest reevaluating your expectations of a CL win every season. we have seen 2 golden generations go and pass in the early 90s and late 00s/early 10s, and won a really good amount when you considering what others have done.

 

[Jombi]

Suppose you're a neutral fan who generally enjoys European football without having a favourite team. Suppose you only began watching football seriously in 2014 (I choose this date because it includes Barca's 2015 CL triumph). Based on what evidence and logic would such a fan conclude that Messi is in fact the best player in the world right now, this year and the previous few? If you put your Barca glasses down, it'd be difficult to. The fact that CR won a Euro only complicates it further.

Ronaldo didnt even play the Euro final. Messi has brought his NT to plenty of finals as well. CR won the Euro because his team mates won the final.