10 - Lionel Messi - v5

JamDav1982

Senior Member
The concept of 'messidepencia' didn't just fall out of thin air.

It is massively overplayed.

If you want to see what Messi looks like in a side where there is no other top players look at Argentina.

What seasons have Barca suffered from no one else turning up in big games?

Works both way as Barca are too often slow and obvious going through Messi in middle with little variety - in the CL.
 

raskolnikov

Well-known member
He doesn't and I don't need to meet him to see what type of personality traits he has. I know by watching him play for more than a decade, he doesn't possess that type of personality.

His body language, his lack of communication with his teammates, his demeanor, have never screamed "leader " to me as a fan and viewer.

This in no means takes away from his footballing ability

This is obvious for everyone though right? Messi is no leader no matter how much they force him to be. Mascherano is their captain imo.
I always felt Maradona gave him an unnecesary burden he should not have given him the captains bracelet.

Decent running from Messi this match. Sad thing is he probably went all out tonight. This should be his baseline, even if he misses 10% more matches a year. I felt he was very good on the first half, poor in the second. Someone saved him for a change. Thought it was over when Higuain skied that chance. Loved his goal. It was really worldclass, touch reminded me of Bergkamp a little, ironically against Argentina.

On paper France should wreck them but they have also been absymal so far. If they play like their first 3 even Argentina has a chance.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
The ones where we got knocked out of the CL. Unless you want to put blame onto Messi. Which is my point.

No that is just the team and Messi failing to perform.

Barca scored 4 vs Roma and went out from some shambolic defending and tactics. That is not due to no one else stepping up if Messi doesnt perform.

They win and lose as a team. It is not all about Messi until the team is defeated and vice versa.
 

Felipetonelo

New member
likes of Dembele , Mbape vs Masche and Argie defenders will be a laugh riot . Messi won't even get a sniff to shoot with kante running behind him for 90 minutes .

Kante is the reason why Messi needs to play at RW against France. If Messi plays in the middle, Kante will run 3x more than Messi and Messi won't get the ball. If you leave Messi at RW, Kante will leave Messi there or he will follow Messi and leave a gap behind.
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
Just checked the stats and he ran 8,7kms like a normal player.

Instead of being static like against Iceland and Croatia he actually made runs behind the defenders like Ronaldo and thanks to that he scored a goal.

I've no idea why he runs so little while it's clear his game would improve so much if he moves when not in possession.

he has been playing like this since 2010, 8,7 km is probably above his average of the last couple of years (which is probably closer to 8 km)

he has to somewhat pace himself to able to do these accellarations (that often open up/decide games) and to avoid injuries

though i agree he should make more runs behind the defence like today, though you have to have the teammates that can find you there
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
lol some of you guys are truly something else. he has put up poor performances in KO games in recent years but the amount of times he has come up big for barca/argentina in CL finals, clasicos, and crucial liga/qualifying games definitely outweighs the number of subpar/poor performances.

you simply don't score 600 some goals and win 30 some trophies if you can't handle pressure. :lol: besides I've only seen maradona and zidane play above their level in WCs when there is immense pressure on them so it's not like it's some common occurence.

very much agree
 

Horatio

You're welcome
No that is just the team and Messi failing to perform.

Barca scored 4 vs Roma and went out from some shambolic defending and tactics. That is not due to no one else stepping up if Messi doesnt perform.

They win and lose as a team. It is not all about Messi until the team is defeated and vice versa.

Hello Jamdav.
 

RMU ReBorn

New member
Kante is the reason why Messi needs to play at RW against France. If Messi plays in the middle, Kante will run 3x more than Messi and Messi won't get the ball. If you leave Messi at RW, Kante will leave Messi there or he will follow Messi and leave a gap behind.
When was the last time Argentina had a proper tactician apart from Sabella ? . Bielsa in 2002 ? . Even he couldn't rescue them
 

Saladin

Active member
------------ Armani --------------
Mercado Otamendi Rojo Tagliafico
--- Mascherano --- Lo Celso -----
Messi ------- Banega ------ Pavon
-------------- Aguero -------------



1. Stick to the 4-2-3-1 - Much more balanced and well-rounded formation today.
2. Replace Di Maria and Higuain for Pavon and Aguero (Dybala is nowhere near his Juve levels for the NT and would play out of position on the left flank; playing him on the right flank would mean Messi would have to play AM, which means Banega is out and the balance of the team would be off by a mile and then some).
3. Replace Enzo Perez for Lo Celso; Mascherano is not his former 2014 boss self, but he is still defensively strong and works at 120% for every second of the 90 minutes; he is the teams leader alongside Messi and I can't see him lose his spot in the starting formation. Enzo Perez is too slow/bad in playing through the ranks and Lo Celso would offer a different dimension as one of the two in a double-pivot formation, where he could move the ball to Banega (sort of a false box-to-box between the 'standard' positions of DM/AM) and he is also strong defensively; with him and Masch covering the area before the defense and being able to bring the ball forward, this could unleash Banega and give him some room for his brilliant creativity; he was solid today and when he has defensive cover, he is allowed more freedom to move forward and pass between the lines.
4. Keep the goalkeeper + backline from today! Essential! Tagliafico is solid defensively and decent in playing the ball forward, Otamendi is clearly strongest when he plays alongside Rojo in a backline of four, and even though Rojo has his moments of 'brainfarts' on the pitch, he offers alot of power, fight and tenacity.
5. Runs from Pavon and Aguero behind the lines would allow more space for Messi in front of France's backline, giving him room to operate; Mercado is also key and would have to add support to Leo's right side, attempting to overlap/add width when Messi shifts inwards from the right flank.


France has been abysmal so far and has the second lousiest coach at the WC (only topped by Sampaoli) so Argentina, with their momentum, can definitely have a shot at the quarter finals if they play by their own strengths.
 

FCB50

Banned
Kante is the reason why Messi needs to play at RW against France. If Messi plays in the middle, Kante will run 3x more than Messi and Messi won't get the ball. If you leave Messi at RW, Kante will leave Messi there or he will follow Messi and leave a gap behind.

But France's left back could have a field day going forward if Messi plays right wing. I think Argentina should definitely use 433 but I can't decide if Messi should be right wing or false 9
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Taglifico shouldnt play LB against France.

He is shit defensively, gets muscled off ball too much and then when has ball absolutely bottles it and cant wait to pass it backwards.
 

Home of Barca Fans

Top