10 - Lionel Messi - V6

[KingLeo10]

I like how BBZ keeps on inventing these point/coin systems as if they have ANY sort of merit whatsoever. If they were so methodologically sound, you would be getting paid generously by actual organizations instead of being collectively called out on internet forums.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Made up numbers and champions league obsession... sounds like BBZ alright

 

[bismp]

Choked lol, narrow all details to one player as if it's just all about one but let me tell you he's gonna choke again this season too 'cause of Valverde.

Yes he did choke.He was the team vice-captain,one of the veteran members of the squad that has won everything,that is regarded as the GOAT.You get it that he is rightfully held to different standards,don't you?
When he just walks in the pitch,looking disinterested and lost while his team is being run down by Roma of all teams,of course he is going to take a big part of the blame.

The same thing happened in the World Cup.At the best case scenario,he had 2 ok games and 2 bad ones.That has little to do with Argentina being shit,he could have done more individually and you know it.

So all in all,during the CL knockouts and the WC,which are by far the most prestigious and high-stakes games of the season and everyone knows(including Leo) that the whole world is watching and will remember his performance come Balon D'or voting time,Leo had:

1 great game(vs Chelsea at home)
4 ok games(vs Chelsea away,vs Roma at home,vs Nigeria and vs France)
3 bad games(vs Roma away,vs Iceland and vs Croatia)

You are not winning Balon D'or with these performances,even if you are GOAT-ing all year long like he has.

 

[eaman]

He was bad on WC and nothing special in CL, 2 strongest competitions this year, rarely people except barca fans remember his great performances in la liga against leganes and similar teams.


Award is pure marketing, but leo has to step up when it comes to strong competitions like CL

Well champions league is a knockout so once your team is gone you can no longer prove yourself. This is why the league shows who's best all year. Who knows if we had managed to sneak past Roma he might have shone in the next rounds just like he did against chelsea. This would be one good reason for a European super league

 

[eaman]

Why are you butthurt?

Explain me your logic then, but take off Barca glasses first, if not, there is no point discussing.

Cavani:
Ligue 1 title
Top goalscorer

CL: 1/8, defeat to a champions Real

World cup:
Uruguay played very good, lost in 1/4 to WC champions France
He scored 3 goals and played good as an individual (better than Messi).

Neymar:
Ligue 1 title
3rd goalscorer and probably the best player of their league

CL: 1/8

Wc: quite a nice WC.
His team reached 1/4, played nice football and he played okish (better than Messi) at a WC.

Messi:
Won La Liga
Best player, best goalscorer

CL: went on a vacation
WC: still on a vacation

So, I didn't even mention CR7 this time, because all logic, objectivity and brains are lost whenever CR7 and Messi are mentioned on Barca's forum.
Now, could you care to explain how was Messi's season THAT better than Neymar's and Cavani's season in Psg?
Both Neymar and Cavani were better at a WC, and not that far behind Messi in domestic championships.
Ok, Cavani can't be compared to Messi but Neymar CAN.
Now, why are goals and assists and being the best player in France worse than doing the same in Spain?
Are we back to: La liga is way better (with matches agianst Girona, Levante, Getafe, Las Palmas, Rayo and similar?) and dominating against the opponents in La liga only (and not at WC and in a CL) should be enough for being the best in the world?

Your Barca's glasses are quite strong, Bro.

Ore, are we back to an "eye test" and understanding football (by Barca's forum standards) again?

If Messi went on vacation in the champions league well what did Neymar do go on a sabbatical? Messi got further and was brilliant against chelsea. Cavani had one good game at the world cup and Neymar maybe two. And yes the likes of girona and Levante are better than some of those lower ligue 1 teams

 

[Horatio]

Messi on vacation in CL? That's a complete myth. Truth is that he had one poor game with the team altogether which cost them.
That's a crucial difference between him and Ronaldo playing for Madrid. Ronaldo can disappear, someone else will stand up, Real qualifies and in hindsight no one will remember the games where Ronaldo was nowhere to be found. If Messi has a poor game it jeapardizes Barcelona greatly, the get knocked out and people will determine it was all because of Messi.

 

[Gnidrologist]

That is true, yes. There is a huge double standard from general public, when comparing Ronaldo's and Messi's performances, but we have to admit that Messi hasn't been clutch for quite some time now. 2015 almost seems like an anomaly. Bad management, yes, but i still want him to give in more game deciding performances in top draw knockout games even against the odds of bad coaching/team play. He is certainly capable of that, but seems to have lost drive to win compared to younger days.

 

[George_Costanza]

Why are you butthurt?

Explain me your logic then, but take off Barca glasses first, if not, there is no point discussing.

Cavani:
Ligue 1 title
Top goalscorer

CL: 1/8, defeat to a champions Real

World cup:
Uruguay played very good, lost in 1/4 to WC champions France
He scored 3 goals and played good as an individual (better than Messi).

Neymar:
Ligue 1 title
3rd goalscorer and probably the best player of their league

CL: 1/8

Wc: quite a nice WC.
His team reached 1/4, played nice football and he played okish (better than Messi) at a WC.

Messi:
Won La Liga
Best player, best goalscorer

CL: went on a vacation
WC: still on a vacation

So, I didn't even mention CR7 this time, because all logic, objectivity and brains are lost whenever CR7 and Messi are mentioned on Barca's forum.
Now, could you care to explain how was Messi's season THAT better than Neymar's and Cavani's season in Psg?
Both Neymar and Cavani were better at a WC, and not that far behind Messi in domestic championships.
Ok, Cavani can't be compared to Messi but Neymar CAN.
Now, why are goals and assists and being the best player in France worse than doing the same in Spain?
Are we back to: La liga is way better (with matches agianst Girona, Levante, Getafe, Las Palmas, Rayo and similar?) and dominating against the opponents in La liga only (and not at WC and in a CL) should be enough for being the best in the world?

Your Barca's glasses are quite strong, Bro.

Ore, are we back to an "eye test" and understanding football (by Barca's forum standards) again?

Huge if true!

 

[Horatio]

That is true, yes. There is a huge double standard from general public, when comparing Ronaldo's and Messi's performances, but we have to admit that Messi hasn't been clutch for quite some time now. 2015 almost seems like an anomaly. Bad management, yes, but i still want him to give in more game deciding performances in top draw knockout games even against the odds of bad coaching/team play. He is certainly capable of that, but seems to have lost drive to win compared to younger days.

2015 an anomaly? Not really. We simply had an overall better team. Neymar in great shape, peak Suarez and Rakitic, Xavi, Iniesta. As good as Messi is, he will still benefit from having better players supporting him.

Messi still has it to carry Barca to a CL title. But he should be allowed to have 1-2 poor games in the run up to it. Last previous seasons that almost didn't seem the case.

 

[Gnidrologist]

It's bad he has such a poor support, but the individual level of play that he demonstrated against Bayern or City i don't remember seeing apart from that campaign. He seems to save the best performance of the season for Bernaleo.

 

[messi2140]

I think the performance against Chelsea at home was fairly similar to that Bayern performance. Just completely killed the tie with a few moments of magic. That City performance on the other hand is hard to replicate though , easily one of his best CL games.

 

[Horatio]

I think the performance against Chelsea at home was fairly similar to that Bayern performance. Just completely killed the tie with a few moments of magic. That City performance on the other hand is hard to replicate though , easily one of his best CL games.

Add to that this season's performance against Tottenham away. Was close to a perfect game.

 

[bismp]

2015 an anomaly? Not really. We simply had an overall better team. Neymar in great shape, peak Suarez and Rakitic, Xavi, Iniesta. As good as Messi is, he will still benefit from having better players supporting him.

Messi still has it to carry Barca to a CL title. But he should be allowed to have 1-2 poor games in the run up to it. Last previous seasons that almost didn't seem the case.

Nah,I agree with Gindrologist.2015 does seem to be an anomaly.Since 2014,Barca has played 23 knockout games in the CL and Leo has underperformed in about 9-10 of them IMO.In these 23 matches he has only scored 11 goals and given about 5 assists at best.

 

[BBZ8800]

Nah,I agree with Gindrologist.2015 does seem to be an anomaly.Since 2014,Barca has played 23 knockout games in the CL and Leo has underperformed in about 9-10 of them IMO.In these 23 matches he has only scored 11 goals and given about 5 assists at best.

This will sound like hating on our legend Messi, but it isn't.
It is just, imo, that when we remove Barca's glasses, he is far from his individual level in the last few years in key knockout matches.

Regarding your stat, even worse, if you exclude 1/8 (to check only matches against the highest level of opponents), and if you check only CL finals, semis and quarters in the last few years, a stat is something like: out of 13 matches, he didn't score a goal in 12 matches of quarters, semis and finals. He has scored only against Bayern in 2015.
Atletico, Psg, Juve, Atletico, Juve, Roma, nothing.
Also, iirc, he is without a goal in his whole career in ANY Wc knockout match.

If we want to be honest, considering Messi's skills and potential, he really played way below his potential too often in knockout matches at Wc and a CL in the last 5-6 years.

I like how BBZ keeps on inventing these point/coin systems as if they have ANY sort of merit whatsoever. If they were so methodologically sound, you would be getting paid generously by actual organizations instead of being collectively called out on internet forums.

The point of my post was:
You have guys who (a LOT of them) who are having a hard time understanding why Messi isn't voted the best in the last few years.

then you have stupid replies like: it is rigged, it is about marketing etc.

Or, you have my model, how random football viewers outside of Barca's world rate competitions and titles:
1. Wc
2. Euros
3. Copa America
4. CL
5. individual performances
6. domestic competitions

Or something close to it.
Now, go to majority of Baloon D Or years and awards will make more sense.

 

[soul24rage]

Regarding your stat, even worse, if you exclude 1/8 (to check only matches against the highest level of opponents), and if you check only CL finals, semis and quarters in the last few years, a stat is something like: out of 13 matches, he didn't score a goal in 12 matches of quarters, semis and finals. He has scored only against Bayern in 2015.
Atletico, Psg, Juve, Atletico, Psg, Juve, Roma, nothing.
Also, iirc, he is without a goal in his whole career in ANY Wc knockout match.

If we want to be honest, considering Messi's skills and potential, he really played way below his potential too often in knockout matches at Wc and a CL in the last 5-6 years.

I too agree that he needs to improve his goal CL and WC knockout scoring record and overall performance (from 2014 and onwards) for a player of his stature, but we can't say that goals are everything. Like in 2015 CL, Neymar scored from the QF upwards and Messi only had 2 goals of all 2015 CL knockout stages. However, nobody will say that Neymar deserves the 2015 Ballon D'or more over Messi just because he scored more goals in the knockout stage. Messi had a greater overall performance in all attacking aspects such as key passes, dribbles, assists that sometimes scoring goals isn't enough. Goals do play a big part in evaluating overall performance, but it shouldn't be everything.

2010 WC, I'm not gonna say anything about this WC as even you have to admit that he was managed by an idiot.
2014 WC, played well in the round of 16 and QF overall. Bit invisible in the SF as Argentina was defensive. Had a great chance in the final.
2018 WC, came alive after France's 4th goal, but little too late with another idiot coach.

He should really improve his goal scoring record in the knockout stage, but his overall performance in all the WC he played is above average for me. He should improve his CL knockout performance from recent years though.

The point of my post was:
You have guys who (a LOT of them) who are having a hard time understanding why Messi isn't voted the best in the last few years.

then you have stupid replies like: it is rigged, it is about marketing etc.

Or, you have my model, how random football viewers outside of Barca's world rate competitions and titles:
1. Wc
2. Euros
3. Copa America
4. CL
5. individual performances
6. domestic competitions

Or something close to it.
Now, go to majority of Baloon D Or years and awards will make more sense.

They should just really name the Ballon D'or to the CL/WC knockout stage D'or. For me, La Liga=CL in terms of importance (wanted to counter your post about La Liga having 80% mediocre team, but we would be going on forever about this). If you seen some of the picks from the Ballon D'or voters this year, you can really tell what type of games they've only watched this year.