10 - Lionel Messi - V6

ini4ever

Member
That said,he brought this to himself.If he had reached the CL semifinals/final and/or the WC semifinals,he could have won his 6th.The hard truth is that he choked against Roma and although France was vastly superior to Argentina,he could have avoided them by finishing first in his group.

Choked lol, narrow all details to one player as if it's just all about one but let me tell you he's gonna choke again this season too 'cause of Valverde.

Messi can move like the Flash and we would still not win. Expecting him to do everything is the first step towards to failure itself.

Spot on. You've said it in another post too, after Pep all Messi's coaches tried to implement the "give the ball to Messi" tactic and absolutely failed.
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/12/03/ballon-2018-dor-luka-modric-croatia-real-madrid-cristiano-ronaldo

It’s almost as though he has bored people by being so relentlessly, remorselessly brilliant. Barcelona may not have won the Champions League and Argentina may not have won the World Cup, but Barcelona did win La Liga and the Copa del Rey last season, and Messi has continued to do extraordinary things all year. Even at the World Cup, his exceptional goal against Nigeria offered hope, while just last week he scored a goal of casual virtuosity against PSV that, in another era, would have been replayed endlessly.

well said, even on this forum take his consistency for granted

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/ballon-d-or-2018-luka-modric-a-worthy-winner-but-lionel-messi-has-been-better-this-year-a4007341.html
 

biraboyz

Banned
Has one outstanding game in the CL -> chelsea home.
Group stage doesnt count for awards, he has to step up against in the knockout (Roma game for example)
Thats how things work. He can score 20 goals in the CL, if we are knocked out again in the same manner like against Roma, he will not be awarded with anything
Still how many MOTM compare to the two RM players, I want to see who is the best player not who has a better teammates.
 

BruceWayne11

New member
Everybody who plays a team sport knows that you can be the best player on the field and still lose. That's the nature of team games, especially when there are as many as 11 on each team. Compared to a league campaign, luck plays a bigger role in a CL or WC, so you have to take that into account as well. Barcelona may well have won the CL last year if the Roma away tie wasn't a complete and utter failure of tactics (and probably attitude, as the players must've felt that they were already through).

The fact is, the Ballon d'Or (and Fifa's Best) overemphasize the CL and WC. Ronaldo was basically gone the first half of the 2017/2018 season, but because his goalscoring came back and Madrid won CL, he's number 2. Meanwhile Modric also had a WC final appearance, which tipped the voting in his favour. Both Ronaldo and Modric played in the same team that came in 3rd place in the league, far behind Barcelona, and went out of the CDR. Those are the two out of three competitions that Barcelona and Real Madrid are part of every year, and yet they didn't take it into account AT ALL.

I get that the CL and WC are the most glorious, but there are many fewer games in both. Especially the WC; which is just 7 games of football to be crowned world champion. The WC is actually valued higher than the CL, even though the CL has a higher level of play and more games (same can maybe be true for some leagues).

In an individual award, those who vote should analyze the different player's games and see what they bring to the table individually. Their level of dribbling, passing, shooting, defending, technique, goals, assists etc. Of course, you have to view it in the context of the player's role in the team. I think Messi is and has been on top of that kind of analysis for a long, long time. It's just a shame that an individual award in football is so incredibly reliant on team achievements.
 
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El Flaco

Active member
Messi dominating LaLiga last season like no other player did in any of Europe's top league...

[tw]998322049415200768[/tw]

Says everything that performances in domestic campaigns means fuck all.

Only performancs in UCL KO-stage or WC/Euro/Copa matters in order to win Ballon d'or or at least becoming top 3.
 

soul24rage

Senior Member
if Barca didn't lose against levante last season, Messi's league campaign would have gotten the recognition than it deserved..
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Messi dominating LaLiga last season like no other player did in any of Europe's top league...

Says everything that performances in domestic campaigns means fuck all.

Only performancs in UCL KO-stage or WC/Euro/Copa matters in order to win Ballon d'or or at least becoming top 3.

In a maths way, it will be simpler for people to except something like:
1. winning a domestic league=2 points
2. playing extremely well as an individual in a domestic league=2 points
3. winning a Champions league=3 points
4. playing extremely well in a Champions league as an individual=3 points
5. winning a World cup=5 points
6. playing extremely well at a World cup as an individual=3 points
7. add some points for marketing, politics, popularity

This is just my personal rough idea and estimation, of course.
Messi this year:
La liga 2 points, individual in La liga 2 points, nothing more=4 points
Cr7:
Individual in La Liga 2 points, CL win 3 points, CL individual 3 points=8 points
Modric:
Individual in La Liga 0-1 points, CL win 3 points, CL individual 2-3 point, WC final 3 points, WC individual 3 points=11-13 points
Mbappe:
Domestic title 2 points, individual in domestic 1 point, WC win 4 points, Wc individual 4 points=10-11 points
Griezmann:
Wc title 4 points, WC individual 4 points=8 points
Salah:
Individual domestic 2 points, CL final 1-2 points, CL individual 1 point, 0 points for a WC=4-5 points

You guys have to accept a pecking order:
1. WC titles and performances
2. general individual performances, MOSTLY at WC and a CL, not that much in a domestic league against smaller clubs
3. CL titles
4. league titles

I will sound like a dick, but to some extent, judges and average football fans don't rate good matches against Las Palmas and Getafe as much as CL quarters, semis, finals and WC matches, for a reason.

When Messi was winning BallonDOrs, Barca was winning La Ligas, we were winning Cls, or we were at least close to it.
In the last few years, we are nowhere near winning CL's.
In La liga we are winning but not in a way as before.
And Messi's level has dropped a lot compared to his level from 5-10 years ago.
He is still on a good level in La liga, where the opponents are weaker.
In a CL knockout stage and at WC, he is rarely presenting crazy one-man-show matches like 5-10 years ago.

You can blame it only on EV, but BOTH Messi's level has dropped and Barca's level has dropped.

The fact is, the Ballon d'Or (and Fifa's Best) overemphasize the CL and WC.

As I have said, IMO, majority of you are biased.
Do you know how we are making fun of French league, and calling it a farmer's league?
And we say that wins and goals in La Ligue don't matter since the opponents are very weak?

Well, to some extent, La Liga (and all domestic competitions) are "farmer's leagues" compared to a CL and World cups.

People will reply: yes, but you are playing La liga for 10 Months. You need consistency!
True.
But still, 80% of matches in La liga are against Getafe, Levante, Girona, Las Palmas and similar. Against very weak and poor clubs with mediocre players.
Being excellent for 10 Months against weak sides is realistically nowhere near as important as knocking out Juve, AM, Real, Barca, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Bayern in a CL knockout matches.

Not to mention a World cup.

Some will reply: Argentina sucks, yadda yadda yadda.
Fine, but Barca has the best team in the world, according to some fans here.
We have the best team and Messi and yet, we won only 1 CL in 7 years.

My point is: ok, Argentina is average compared to France.
But Barca is superior to AM, Dortmund, Psg, Roma, Juve, English teams, and we still won only 1 CL in 7 years.

This is not only about Messi.
The point is: you have to come and prove yourself over and over at the biggest stage.
And both Barca and Messi have failed in that in majority of the last 7 years.

So, maybe BallonDOr is not that corrupted and dirty.
We just didn't show too much apart from trashing La liga teams over and over and losing in a CL in same fashion year after year whenever we meet a first decent opponent.
 
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messi2140

6racies Xavi
Man there is just so much unadulterated garbage in your post that I seriously dont know where to start. Here is one example :

Garbage said:
Mess: La liga 2 points, individual in La liga 2 points, nothing more=4 points
Cr7:
Individual in La Liga 2 points, CL win 3 points, CL individual 3 points=8 points in the post that I dont even know where to start. Here is just one example to the amount of the amount of shit you posted.

Messi dominated La liga in every aspect , but you give him the same amount of indivudual coins (why name them points , let's call them coins) as CR7 but Messi who had one less impressive game than CR7 (seeing as he went missing in the Semi's and finals) gets no coins at all. That's it for me , if someone wants to dissect this garbage even more feel free to do so.
 
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MTL_Barca

Well-known member
The list was pretty much WC only with a little bit of CL mixed in, just as it was expected. Idk why people still care so much about this topic. I'm sure Messi would take another CL with Barca or a title with Argentina over individual trophies any day of the week.

Like Modric is a fantastic midfielder so nice for him to win it but they could've givin it to other players and it would be the same and especially the ranking besides 1st place really just doesn't matter at all. Nobody remembers who got 2nd/3rd anyway a week after.
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
Man there is just so much unadulterated garbage in your post that I seriously dont know where to start. Here is one example :

Messi dominated La liga in every aspect , but you give him the same amount of indivudual coins (why name them points , let's call them coins) as CR7 but Messi who had one less impressive game than CR7 (seeing as he went missing in the Semi's and finals) gets no coins at all. That's it for me , if someone wants to dissect this garbage even more feel free to do so.

Why are you butthurt?

Explain me your logic then, but take off Barca glasses first, if not, there is no point discussing.

Cavani:
Ligue 1 title
Top goalscorer

CL: 1/8, defeat to a champions Real

World cup:
Uruguay played very good, lost in 1/4 to WC champions France
He scored 3 goals and played good as an individual (better than Messi).

Neymar:
Ligue 1 title
3rd goalscorer and probably the best player of their league

CL: 1/8

Wc: quite a nice WC.
His team reached 1/4, played nice football and he played okish (better than Messi) at a WC.

Messi:
Won La Liga
Best player, best goalscorer

CL: went on a vacation
WC: still on a vacation

So, I didn't even mention CR7 this time, because all logic, objectivity and brains are lost whenever CR7 and Messi are mentioned on Barca's forum.
Now, could you care to explain how was Messi's season THAT better than Neymar's and Cavani's season in Psg?
Both Neymar and Cavani were better at a WC, and not that far behind Messi in domestic championships.
Ok, Cavani can't be compared to Messi but Neymar CAN.
Now, why are goals and assists and being the best player in France worse than doing the same in Spain?
Are we back to: La liga is way better (with matches agianst Girona, Levante, Getafe, Las Palmas, Rayo and similar?) and dominating against the opponents in La liga only (and not at WC and in a CL) should be enough for being the best in the world?

Your Barca's glasses are quite strong, Bro.

Ore, are we back to an "eye test" and understanding football (by Barca's forum standards) again?
 
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messi2140

6racies Xavi
Look what I fucking wrote , your coin system is retarded , and the way you distributed the points is retarded aswell. As if that wasn't hilarious enough you go on and somehow compare ligue 1 to la liga only to do it again in this post. And then you proceed to go on a retarded tangent again , Im surprised you didnt mention Pep in your last post. Like how hard is it for you to argue properly and concisely ?


Edit:

"You didnt even mention CR7 this time"
Then what is this ?
Coin Distribution said:
Mess: La liga 2 points, individual in La liga 2 points, nothing more=4 points
Cr7:
Individual in La Liga 2 points, CL win 3 points, CL individual 3 points=8 points in the post that I dont even know where to start. Here is just one example to the amount of the amount of shit you posted.

Which is the point I argued in my post , that (suprise , suprise) you completely ignored and went on a tangent again.
 
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