El Gato
Villarato!
He will be in the running because bar none other player, he transformed Liverpool into a major title competitor. He will have even more of a chance if the Dutch secure the Nations League.
10 - Lionel Messi - V6
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
He will be in the running because bar none other player, he transformed Liverpool into a major title competitor. He will have even more of a chance if the Dutch secure the Nations League.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
I had asked this question many times and never got an answer: Why does the Nations League even matter? It is a friggin' glorified friendlies tournament, it is not the Euro.
And I'd argue that VVD doesn't stand out more than Salah, Mane, Firmino and Alisson in making Liverpool a better team. Why not Salah? Mane? Sure he will be in the running but why would he beat Messi?
El Gato
Villarato!
It isn't. Euro spots are at stake. UEFA treat it quite seriously, so do many of the minor nations. Whether the trophy itself is meaningful or not could be an argument, but same applies as with Liverpool - he is a good reason combined with emergence of Ajax as to why Netherlands are back as a NT threat.
Because he's essentially the MVP in a winning side. And he's a Netherlands captain and leader. Won't necessarily win, but he will no doubt get close should he bring the trophies home.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
VVD is very good but I feel he is being overrated quite much.
El Gato
Villarato!
Hardly. He has probably been the best CB in the world since coming to Liverpool. There were a handful of mistakes he committed, which happen to be memorable ones against City at Anfield where Mahrez missed the pen and then didn't have a brilliant game at Camp Nou. Which this is still OK to have a mediocre/poor game against top sides.
There's no individual player who has transformed a team to such degree elsewhere in football at the moment. He is part of a European record-tying league runner-up side (only Celtic 02/03 got 97 points as runner up). And that + trophies on club and international level makes him pretty comfortably one of the candidates for BDO.
This, people overrate the dude so much as if Barca didn't have a lot of opportunities against Liverpool defense
Arizona Scott
New member
VVD is by a long way I think the most impactful defender. He is not overrated.
But no I don't think he should pip Messi for the individual award. 1) It isn't like Liverpool will come away with more than 1 trophy, same as Barca. 2) as good as he is, sometimes it Salah or Mane that are their match deciders--where as for Barca the only thing that really shines is his individual brilliance--it is why they cruised to La Liga title, and made another final and cl semifinal (all where he generated goals) despite his team losing.
Combining individual brilliance and team achievements--really none else is close, incuding the best defender in the world.
But no I don't think he should pip Messi for the individual award. 1) It isn't like Liverpool will come away with more than 1 trophy, same as Barca. 2) as good as he is, sometimes it Salah or Mane that are their match deciders--where as for Barca the only thing that really shines is his individual brilliance--it is why they cruised to La Liga title, and made another final and cl semifinal (all where he generated goals) despite his team losing.
Combining individual brilliance and team achievements--really none else is close, incuding the best defender in the world.
It's not his fault for club (post xavi, Iniesta, Neymar and now Suarez turning to shit) and country nobody ever steps up. He's created enough chances to bury that Liverpool tie or the Argentina finals but because he hasn't got on the end of his own passes he's also to blame.
You can't win a treble on your own.
Coutinho was meant to be the help he needed.
tacticvarium
New member
I am obviously not defending our shit players and manager but Messi and his fanboys can't just keep blaming the lack of quality of his own team.
Any decent world class player from any era would be able to win trophies with players like Xavi, Iniesta, prime Busi, prime Alves etc.
https://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2019/05/10/5cd5cd38ca47417c3b8b4577.html
I personally strongly agree with Simeone's view on Messi.
We are all aware that the presence of Messi naturally leads to Messidependencia but Messi himself also heavily depends on the quality of his teammates and the team's system to perform properly. But the truth is that any world class player will perform better in a proper system under a proper manager with world-class teammates.
I also don't think his performances during the three finals with Argentia and the CL knockout stages in the past few years lived up to his GOAT reputation. He himself either underperformed severely or was almost invisible.
EdmondDantes
New member
Messi has gone full enabler.
Abdicating his one in 8 billion talent for the sake of his best pal Suarez and the Club de amigos with players like Rakishit who shouldn't even belong here, let alone play as starters. I hope he's happy to waste yet another season next year. Cowverde with his ugly, cowardly football, and his 'occupied' starting spots with the usual useless cones.
All with Messi's conformist blessing and seal of approval. Meanwhile the machines in Liverpool and Manchester are set up to just eat Champion League trophies for at least the nest 5 years.
Abdicating his one in 8 billion talent for the sake of his best pal Suarez and the Club de amigos with players like Rakishit who shouldn't even belong here, let alone play as starters. I hope he's happy to waste yet another season next year. Cowverde with his ugly, cowardly football, and his 'occupied' starting spots with the usual useless cones.
All with Messi's conformist blessing and seal of approval. Meanwhile the machines in Liverpool and Manchester are set up to just eat Champion League trophies for at least the nest 5 years.
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Messi could have done more, but it's a team game and when all the onus is on him to do everything creatively then he's going to fall short when it comes to the big trophies.
Maradona in 1986 final didn't score but Argentina did score 3 to win the game because others stepped up. Maradona assisted the winning goal as Messi would have done in each final had the likes of Higuain not missed sitters..
It doesn't matter how good you are, others need to step up to the plate as well, which they did under Pep and did in 2015 (Neymar, Suarez). Look at Ronaldo who had Modric performing brilliantly in finals and Ramos and Bale winning the finals for them when he was invisible. He goes off injured in the Euro final and the team stepped up and won it for him. This season nobody stepped up for him at Juve and they went out, even with his goals.
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Klopp, Poch and Guardiola are proof that the manager is the key at the top with the jobs they're doing. Pep showed that at Barca.
Suarez needs to go and I said 2 years ago now is the time to sell while he's worth something because he's 30+ and peaked. Now we're stuck with a dreadful player on massive money. Rakitic pretty much the same.
The club needs someone with the balls to come in and shake things up like Pep did with Ronaldinho and Deco. Barca are back in 2008.
The stalwarts like Pique, Busquets, Rakitic, Suarez and sadly Messi are all too comfortable. The team just get overrun in Europe and Valencia have shown it can happen in Spain too.
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Sterlingfan2000
Active member
Suarez needs to be sold , he has a bad influence on Messi.
Messi is even insulting opponents player at half time tunnell and mocking them, trait coming from Suarez. Guardiola Sold Players who had bad influence on him and Suarez is one
Messi is even insulting opponents player at half time tunnell and mocking them, trait coming from Suarez. Guardiola Sold Players who had bad influence on him and Suarez is one
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