11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[Flavia]

It comes from the fact that he used to be an amazing free kick taker a few years ago.
Cristiano Ronaldo: Has scored more goals from direct free-kicks (7) than any other TEAM in the last 6 Champions League seasons

His convertion rate was never as amazing as the real great fk takers. It comes from hype.

 

[Alen]

It comes from the fact that he used to be an amazing free kick taker a few years ago.
Cristiano Ronaldo: Has scored more goals from direct free-kicks (7) than any other TEAM in the last 6 Champions League seasons

Don't mean much. Usually the same free kick taker.

 

[mehdimike]

That's only in la liga.

And I meant in la liga.

 

[MaxY]

His convertion rate was never as amazing as the real great fk takers. It comes from hype.

Yeah but his free kicks were stunning,only Roberto Carlos and Juninho had free kicks who were as powerful and as entertaining as Ronaldo did(imo,duh). Watch some montages of his free kicks,especially in his Man Utd and early RM days. The man could score from over 40 meters.

 

[Flavia]

And I meant in la liga.

I checked that infographic, data was until 13/04. Only I could find, though. So his attempts are also not only 24, and that conversion rate can be worse.

 

[BBZ8800]

cr is not a great fk taker, neither is Messi. I don't know where the notion cr is good at fk comes from.

last season only, but I'll be surprised if their numbers aren't similar in previous years.

Yes, some are laughing at Maxy's post with replies how Messi recently scored 2 consecutive Fks against Sevilla. Ouch.
Messi scores some free kicks, but if he tries literally 100 free kicks in one season and scores 5-6 goals, that is really not too awesome.

People probably forget that Barca attacks all the time and that we probably get the highest amount of free kicks in the world, more or less.
So, when Messi scores 5 goals, that is usually from 100 attempts.
Some other guys, like on this picture, need much less attempts for the similar amount of goals.

So, no, Messi is NOT in top5 free kick takers in the world.
As someone said, he is Messi, he is a Goat, he is ours, but he seriously is NOT the best in every single aspect of football.

This guy was insane in the past:
Juninho against Real Madrid in Champions league:

 

[Trickykid]

Yes, some are laughing at Maxy's post with replies how Messi recently scored 2 consecutive Fks against Sevilla. Ouch.
Messi scores some free kicks, but if he tries literally 100 free kicks in one season and scores 5-6 goals, that is really not too awesome.

People probably forget that Barca attacks all the time and that we probably get the highest amount of free kicks in the world, more or less.
So, when Messi scores 5 goals, that is usually from 100 attempts.
Some other guys, like on this picture, need much less attempts for the similar amount of goals.

So, no, Messi is NOT in top5 free kick takers in the world.
As someone said, he is Messi, he is a Goat, he is ours, but he seriously is NOT the best in every single aspect of football.

This guy was insane in the past:
Juninho against Real Madrid in Champions league:

Most of us reacted to him calling Messi shit at free kicks (or something along those lines), which he obviously isn't. Not amongst the very best in the world, but very decent nonetheless.

It wasn't exactly as dumb as him calling Lucho clueless (and postulating that top team coaches has no other job than to motivate their players) after last season, but still pretty damn clueless no matter how you twist and turn it.


...not that I should be one bit surprised, that is.

 

[MaxY]

Most of us reacted to him calling Messi shit at free kicks (or something along those lines), which he obviously isn't. Not amongst the very best in the world, but very decent nonetheless.

It wasn't exactly as dumb as him calling Lucho clueless (and postulating that top team coaches has no other job than to motivate their players) after last season, but still pretty damn clueless no matter how you twist and turn it.


...not that I should be one bit surprised, that is.

I said Messi was bad at free kicks and he is bad. Is it bad for the best player to be average or below average in free kicks ? Yes. Is it bad for somebody like Messi & Ronaldo who take free kicks at Barca and RM respectively to have such shit conversations? Yes. RM and Barca both have better free kick takers.

 

[Flavia]

I said Messi was bad at free kicks and he is bad. Is it bad for the best player to be average or below average in free kicks ? Yes. Is it bad for somebody like Messi & Ronaldo who take free kicks at Barca and RM respectively to have such shit conversations? Yes. RM and Barca both have better free kick takers.

Messi is not bad at fk's. Neither is cr. They're average.

 

[Sumlit]

I said Messi was bad at free kicks and he is bad. Is it bad for the best player to be average or below average in free kicks ? Yes. Is it bad for somebody like Messi & Ronaldo who take free kicks at Barca and RM respectively to have such shit conversations? Yes. RM and Barca both have better free kick takers.

You should probably stop, you're not sounding any better every time you post. That Messi isn't a FK specialist, never was, doesn't mean he is bad at them. Neither Barcelona nor Madrid have players with the sample size of FK for you to ascertain if they are in fact better FK takers than Messi and Cristiano respectively. Enough to merit them being given a shot to build that sample size, yes, but certainly not enough for you to state that factually.

And btw, people continue to use conversion rate to gauge players, and I cringe every time I see that. Conversion rate is one of the worth stats in football. A very subjective stat, without context, that rewards small sample size over large ones. Better stats are accuracy, and inducing saves, both for goals, shots and FKs. Conversion rate should only be used for PKs.

 

[Flavia]

You should probably stop, you're not sounding any better every time you post. That Messi isn't a FK specialist, never was, doesn't mean he is bad at them. Neither Barcelona nor Madrid have players with the sample size of FK for you to ascertain if they are in fact better FK takers than Messi and Cristiano respectively. Enough to merit them being given a shot to build that sample size, yes, but certainly not enough for you to state that factually.

And btw, people continue to use conversion rate to gauge players, and I cringe every time I see that. Conversion rate is one of the worth stats in football. A very subjective stat, without context, that rewards small sample size over large ones. Better stats are accuracy, and inducing saves, both for goals, shots and FKs. Conversion rate should only be used for PKs.

Those stats are very hard to find, Sumlit. If you have them, please post here.

 

[Sumlit]

Those stats are very hard to find, Sumlit. If you have them, please post here.

I don't really know if they are actively kept. People don't really care all that much about FK stats, all they care about is goals, so they just lazily take total FKs/FK goals and hur dur there you have your best FK taker, without actual statistical analysis or context as to sample size, accuracy, keeper saves forced etc.

Whoscored throws an info-graphic from time to time, but as far as I know, they don't actively keep those stats available to us in their website. That info-graphic you posted is about the only thing I've seen showing accuracy numbers and they pretty much show the more attempts you have, the more your accuracy levels off and the lower your "conversion rate" drops.

 

[BBZ8800]

I don't really know if they are actively kept. People don't really care all that much about FK stats, all they care about is goals, so they just lazily take total FKs/FK goals and hur dur there you have your best FK taker, without actual statistical analysis or context as to sample size, accuracy, keeper saves forced etc.

Whoscored throws an info-graphic from time to time, but as far as I know, they don't actively keep those stats available to us in their website. That info-graphic you posted is about the only thing I've seen showing accuracy numbers and they pretty much show the more attempts you have, the more your accuracy levels off and the lower your "conversion rate" drops.

About accuracy, that also adds further problems.

Player 1 can attempt "simple" free kicks:
= you shoot over the wall, but your shot is too weak/and not aimed near the post, but straight into the arms of the keeper.
-- so, this guy will have 10 shots, 0 goals, 10 out 10 attempts "on target".

Player 2 can attempt risky free kicks.
Most of his shots will either:
-- go a few inches wide
-- or they will end as a goal, near the post, and a Gk won't be able to catch those shots in most of the cases
-- this guy will have, let's say: 10 shots, 2 goals, 3 shots on target (2 goals and one Gk's save), and 7 shots wide

First guy will have 100% shots accuracy.
The 2nd guy will have 30% shots accuracy.
The first guy scored zero goals...

My example is somewhat black and white, but you see, for me personally, I don't care about free kick accuracy (if that stat is about shots on target?).
For me, it is all about: how many reasonable free kicks you had (it is not exactly the same to shoot from 20 or 38 meters, and from which angle), and how many you scored.
Ok, we will never see those stats either.

But as you say that a conversation ratio isn't too important, for me, I totally don't care about free kicks accuracy if the guy fails in scoring goals in the end.

 

[Sumlit]

About accuracy, that also adds further problems.

Player 1 can attempt "simple" free kicks:
= you shoot over the wall, but your shot is too weak/and not aimed near the post, but straight into the arms of the keeper.
-- so, this guy will have 10 shots, 0 goals, 10 out 10 attempts "on target".

Player 2 can attempt risky free kicks.
Most of his shots will either:
-- go a few inches wide
-- or they will end as a goal, near the post, and a Gk won't be able to catch those shots in most of the cases
-- this guy will have, let's say: 10 shots, 2 goals, 3 shots on target (2 goals and one Gk's save), and 7 shots wide

First guy will have 100% shots accuracy.
The 2nd guy will have 30% shots accuracy.
The first guy scored zero goals...

My example is somewhat black and white, but you see, for me personally, I don't care about free kick accuracy (if that stat is about shots on target?).
For me, it is all about: how many reasonable free kicks you had (it is not exactly the same to shoot from 20 or 38 meters, and from which angle), and how many you scored.
Ok, we will never see those stats either.

But as you say that a conversation ratio isn't too important, for me, I totally don't care about free kicks accuracy if the guy fails in scoring goals in the end.

No single stat is ever infallible, that's why you always need supplement them with context and actual observation and additional stats to help cover what one lacks with what the other offers. Accuracy and saves induced are, like any other stat, imperfect and I never claimed they were the end all of stats for shots, goals and FK. But they are still a far better gauge than conversion rate.

 

[khorne]

So, a couple of random east-europeans are the best fk takers in the world?

random? RANDOM you say? That, norwegian pretty boy, is zlatko junuzovic! learn his name well, because we have already destroyed your scandinavian pals and once you qualify your sorry asses for the eurocopa, you'll be next! Peace out, yo!
















I'm sorry. That's the first and probably last time Austrians can be cocky about their national team, and i'll be damned if i won't milk it for all its worth