xavi_the_Boss
New member
It seems to start with Bojan comment.
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It seems to start with Bojan comment.
Amazing thing is that BBZ's arguments this entire thread could be used to say how messi's goals ain't all that.
Very same arguments just switch player names and the number of goals and assists
we play in a crap league. i'd like to see how our front three get on against leciester and hull.
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Gasgas
Guest
Just a curious question, why then did you want/wish for Neymar to be benched in the classico for Pedro for instance?
footyfan
Calma, calma
Every argument has started because of BBZ's posts. Otherwise nobody is saying Neymar is the second coming of Jesus. I got nothing against BBZ btw, he's one of the most experienced Barca fans here and I always rate his knowledge highly. Doesn't mean he can't be biased or wrong sometimes.
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Gasgas
Guest
Or the mighty Elche from before 2006, perhaps neymar would even complete a pass
On a serious note, it is not easy to compare players from different eras, wish there were a universal tool that could compare players from different eras without bias
That's your opinion and I respect it as long as you don't start with personal stuff.
Everyone is wrong at some point.
footyfan
Calma, calma
Yes, I agree there were unnecessary personal remarks about wall-of-texts posts.
Barcalove
Banned
You shoudnt do the exactly same thing you are criticizing that other People are doing
You saying that stats by "fanboys" are irrelevants is ok, but someone that says the stats posted by "haters" , is not ok?
StarLord
New member
Lol.
Real played finals and won in 1998, 2000 and 2002.
Valencia played a final in 2000 and 2001.
That only happened a few years before our 2004-05 winning season (first la liga after 6 years).
-- for example, in the last 5 Seasons (today), Spain had 2 finalists in a CL
-- while prior to 2004-05, Spain had 4 finalists in a CL in the last 5 years
Yeah, La liga was on a ALL time low, with CL winners from La liga coming in 1998, 2000, 2002, 2006.
I have to admit, I admire you.
Basically, whatever stat will someone post, you will find a reason to explain how today everything is much harder and more important.
I agree, football's history started in 2009 with Pep, or in 2013 with Ney.
Everything before was meh, all time low and full of average players, nowhere near to the current football gods.
I did not say that in 2005 La Liga was at an all time low. I said that La Liga was at a relative low. Massive difference between the two. La Liga was tops around 2000, then fell a little bit circa 2005, and around 2010 it became number one again. La Liga has actually improved significantly in recent seasons, all evidence points towards that. The fact is that we, RM and BM have been way ahead of everyone else for some time now, this is the reason why these three teams score so much. Not every football team in Europe has turned to shit since 2010 or so. It is just that these 3 teams have managed to concentrate so much of the world's elite football players under 3 roofs. Simple as that.
I cannot comprehend what your beef against Neymar is? No one has said that he is a God or GOAT or anything of that sort. What we are saying is that he done better than: Ibra/Alexis/Pedro/Villa/Henry. That counts for a lot since we have been suffering in that position for ages now. You argument that La Liga is much weaker now than it was back in Eto'o days has zero basis in reality and no facts backing it in any way. The reason why RM and Barca score more goals today than they were scoring back then is because they are much better teams now. They have been top of the pile both in Spain and in Europe for some time now (precisely the years that you allege that they have been statpadding)
I am really tired by the negativity of so many on this forum. The lack of positive comments about our players and manager are soul-drenching in a period where we should be flying sky high with confidence and be full of praise for our players and manager. They never regret their mistaken claims/predictions, some of them even disappear when Barca does well, they keep hyping other teams and other players, or some like you, hype Barca players from by-gone eras so that everything our current crop have done can be discounted.
Co0ter
Senior Member
My oh my, people either have incredibly short memories or didn't watch Barca until after their recent CL successs. Neymar has had a great season, scoring in big games for us too...how are some of you still whining? He is 23 years old on top of it hahaha The same people who praise Henry and Villa as legends. The truth is, both Villa and Henry each had ONE good season for us and we won the CL each of those years. They were in no way, shape or form good for us their other seasons. Henry was a ghost his first season and simply didn't give a shit his third. Villa was having a very mediocre second season and after his injury...well most of us remember how that unfortunately went.
Neymar has bad games but my goodness, Henry and Villa had awful games too. Even Messi had a lot of rough games this season. It feels like people complain just to complain.
Neymar has bad games but my goodness, Henry and Villa had awful games too. Even Messi had a lot of rough games this season. It feels like people complain just to complain.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Seria A was by far the best league in 90's and till 2001-2002.
Then it crashed due financial problems (Parma, Lazio, Roma, and later Juventus relegated).
So, La liga was never a number 1 in those days, all the best players were escaping to Serie A.
A few users implied that he is better than Etoo from 2004-05 and 2005-06.
Then I implied that if he is better than Etoo, then he is surely better scorer than Ronnie.
I am not saying that La liga was better then than now.
But that the difference was smaller.
My estimation, in numbers:
-- Barca+Real had strength 50 back then
-- Valencia+Atletico+Deportivo 30
-- all other teams 10
Today:
-- Barca+Real=strength 200
-- Atletico+Valencia=100
-- all other teams=10
-- now, imagine if French or Italian league stagnated
-- or if Italian teams were at strength 80 while we were at 50
-- and if they are still at 80 today, while Barca+Real are on 200
-- now, if our 2 or 4-5 teams improved a lot, does that mean that the whole La liga is stronger?
-- Barca is now stronger than Milan and Juve, and it wasn't in 1998 or 2002
-- does that mean that La liga in general is stronger?
= or, that La liga is as equally as good/poor, but only a strength on 2-3-4 teams improved?
So, I am not talking too much about the strength of La liga versus EPL, Seria A or Bundesliga then and now, and how our top 4-5 teams performed against their teams.
That is irrelevant.
I am only saying that the difference between Barca+Real and lowest 10 teams in La liga was much smaller back then than now.
And any stat which shows how Barca and Real, or Sevilla and Atletico plays against Bundes teams or EPL teams has nothing to with it.
And how I don't have zero facts about it?
Just try to find Barca's earnings and transfers then and now.
And transfers from 18th club in La liga then and now.
-- Barca spends much more
-- 18th team spends nothing then and now
A similar analogy:
-- imagine if some richest person in the world buys Barca, and that we will be able to spend 1 Billion each Season
(This will happen in 10 years, let's say)
-- and then imagine that in those years, we will buy 11 BEST players in the world, imagine some new Neymar's, Messi's, Verratti's, Pogba's.
-- imagine a 200 Million player on every position
-- and then, that team will win against Cordobas and Almerias like 15:0 per match
-- and now, imagine that new Barca from 2025, scoring 250 Goals per Season, and our key FC scoring 80 (League) Goals, and our 2nd FC scoring 60 goals
-- do you know what the future papers will say:
= omg, these players are the best players in the history
-- and that guy with 80 Goals is twice as good as Messi
-- and the new guy will be hailed as the best ever
But you see, that new guy maybe wouldn't even be close to Messi.
But since we will have a superstar team, we will trash all of our opponents with 10:0 and 15:0.
-- in that team, every player will score like crazy
-- and then Barca fans from 2025 will say:
-- omg, this player with 80 goals is better than Messi, CR7 and Neymar
-- and our other 2 Fcs with 60 and 50 goals=are better than Ney, Suarez, and not to mention Etoo/Ronnie and other guys
If you get my point?
Yes, these guys will really score a lot of goals.
But does that mean that they are THAT GOOD, and THAT much better than Etoo from 2005 or Messi from 2015?
= because, you see, a lot of their goals will come because their Barca will be too rich and too good (for average La liga opponents)
-- and those players individually aren't THAT superior, but the whole team just makes them look like GOATS
Imo, similar is happening with current Barca, compared to Barca's from the past.
But people get offended when some of us say that goals from today (both from Messi and Neymar) are hard to compare with goals from some other Barca's.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
BBZ what happened from 2007/08 to 2008/09 for Barca to suddenly score 30 more goals a season in the league?
The money argument falls down when you realise that Barca had much more money ten year ago than they did in early mid 90s yet scored more and won more.
Also Barcas performances in the CL are better than ever and the likes of Messi are breaking records in that also.
Not sure how you can say on one hand it is easier now as Barca can buy better players but then have a fit when people say todays players could be better.
The money argument falls down when you realise that Barca had much more money ten year ago than they did in early mid 90s yet scored more and won more.
Also Barcas performances in the CL are better than ever and the likes of Messi are breaking records in that also.
Not sure how you can say on one hand it is easier now as Barca can buy better players but then have a fit when people say todays players could be better.
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