11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[Flavia]

The others side of the story is: probably a lot of neyhate posts wouldn't be here if neylovers wouldn't post things (comparing him) how he is better (according to stats) than any Barca's attacker in the last 5, 10 or 20 years.

And a lot of posters posted similar things.

So, again, a part which I will never understand:
1. when someone overhails our player, Ney in this case=it is not a problem
2. when someone else replies, and say that the current La liga is different, and that because of that Ney or current players can't be better than Etoo (who is also BARCA's legend, not some Real's or Chelsea's player)=suddenly that IS more or less a huge problem (hailing a former player on the expense of the current favorite player)

I told you, people are biased towards current players.

Saying that Ney is NOT better than Etoo or that the current numbers are much different that numbers from the past, and people get offended.
I have exaggerated sometimes, that is true.

But even a simple post like:
Etoo is better than Ney or Ney's numbers can't be compared to Etoo's, so 30 goals today are not better from 25 goals back then=and people jump as if you killed someone, lol

People live in the present, it's normal the current players get biased views. Neymar is not better than Eto'o, not yet. Who know if he'll ever be. But posting a stat does not imply he is, or nothing of the sort.
I honestly think the balance in the Suarez thread is also wrong, though. Too much love over there, recently. I even saw some saying he's the best 9 Barça ever had, some saying he should win the bdor... Why not balance things there too? Too many Luislovers

 

[BBZ8800]

2004-2005 Season, League goals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004–05_FC_Barcelona_season
Etoo:
Against top 10 teams= 10 goals
Against bottom 10 teams= 14 goals

Ronaldinho:
Against top 10 teams= 6 goals
Against bottom 10 teams= 3 goals (lol, 3 goals in the whole Season against all Cordobas and Almerias from that era. Sounds strange, isn't it?)

2005/2006 Season, League goals (we were European champions that Season):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005–06_FC_Barcelona_season
Etoo:
Against top 10 teams= 14 goals
Against bottom 10 teams= 11 goals

Ronaldinho:
Against top 10 teams= 7 goals
Against bottom 10 teams= 10 goals

Now, people who trashed me about statpading, please look at Messi's and CR7's stats and no matter how you twist stats, you can't find the argument how the current La liga is the same as back then and how most of our key attackers aren't just statpading goals against extremely poor bottom 8-10 teams:
-- 2014/15, Season, with a few matches left to play:
Messi against Top10 teams=12 Goals
Messi against bottom 10 teams=28 Goals (lol)

Cristiano Ronaldo:
Cr7 against top10 teams=16 goals
Cr7 againts bottom 10 teams=26 goals (lol)

So, people, think twice before you compare even Messi and CR7 with Ronaldinho, Etoo or any guys from other eras.
It is not that simple.
Or when you will feel anger and hate when someone says that current players are maybe not better than those Barca's legends from the past.

 

[LordLichtenstein]

Neymar IS better than Eto'o, there I said it.

 

[Kerrybai]

2004-2005 Season, League goals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004–05_FC_Barcelona_season
Etoo:
Against top 10 teams= 10 goals
Against bottom 10 teams= 14 goals

Ronaldinho:
Against top 10 teams= 6 goals
Against bottom 10 teams= 3 goals (lol, 3 goals in the whole Season against all Cordobas and Almerias from that era. Sounds strange, isn't it?)

2005/2006 Season, League goals (we were European champions that Season):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005–06_FC_Barcelona_season
Etoo:
Against top 10 teams= 14 goals
Against bottom 10 teams= 11 goals

Ronaldinho:
Against top 10 teams= 7 goals
Against bottom 10 teams= 10 goals

Now, people who trashed me about statpading, please look at Messi's and CR7's stats and no matter how you twist stats, you can't find the argument how the current La liga is the same as back then and how most of our key attackers aren't just statpading goals against extremely poor bottom 8-10 teams:
-- 2014/15, Season, with a few matches left to play:
Messi against Top10 teams=12 Goals
Messi against bottom 10 teams=28 Goals (lol)

Cristiano Ronaldo:
Cr7 against top10 teams=16 goals
Cr7 againts bottom 10 teams=26 goals (lol)

So, people, think twice before you compare even Messi and CR7 with Ronaldinho, Etoo or any guys from other eras.
It is not that simple.
Or when you will feel anger and hate when someone says that current players are maybe not better than those Barca's legends from the past.

La liga isn't poorer now in terms of quality... simply the 2 at the top have widened the gap. I understand your point though.

 

[Kohe321]

 

[Gasgas]

People live in the present, it's normal the current players get biased views. Neymar is not better than Eto'o, not yet. Who know if he'll ever be. But posting a stat does not imply he is, or nothing of the sort.
I honestly think the balance in the Suarez thread is also wrong, though. Too much love over there, recently. I even saw some saying he's the best 9 Barça ever had, some saying he should win the bdor... Why not balance things there too? Too many Luislovers

Would i be allowed to balance things in the Messi thread too?

 

[BBZ8800]

La liga isn't poorer now in terms of quality... simply the 2 at the top have widened the gap. I understand your point though.

That is what I am saying all the time. (Champions league money, Tv money, internet, marketing, new deals with huge brands etc)
Maybe even top 4 teams are stronger now, I don't deny that. I can even agree.
Maybe even top 10 are much better than top 10 from back then. I can agree with that.

But the difference between Barca back then and Cordobas, Almerias and Getafes (bottom 8-10 teams) from that era was much smaller than now.
In 2004-05, we never scored more than 4 goals against any Cordoba or Almeria.
In 2005-06, when we won a treble, we scored 5 goals 2 times in La liga, and we were hailed back then as the best team in a history, and a team who invented joga bonita (beautiful football).

In those 2 awesome Seasons, in 76 la liga matches, we managed to score:
0-1-2 goals=27+26 times per Season (out of 38 matches)
4 goals=in 8 matches
5 goals=in 2 matches
6 or more goals=never

And then, people should just take a look at this Season (only one season, compared to 2 Seasons from above):
4 goals=2 times
5 goals=6 times (lol)
6 goals=4 times (lol)
8 goals=1 time

Then it is no wonder that Messi has 25-30 goals against bottom 10 teams in 1 Season, while mighty Ronaldinho managed to get 3 goals in 20 matches against bottom 10 sides in 2004-05 Season.
Cr7/Messi score more than that in 45 minutes against some opponents today, if needed

(This time it has nothing to with Neymar, but statpading in general)

 

[Barcalove]

Why are you saying stuff about messi and cr7 being statpadders in neymar thread? You even showed that neymar stats arent padded, so end of discussion, you were wrong at first.

 

[BBZ8800]

Why are you saying stuff about messi and cr7 being statpadders in neymar thread? You even showed that neymar stats arent padded, so end of discussion, you were wrong at first.

All players from today are statpading in terms how it is much easier to win 6:0 in most of matches today, because the difference between top and bottom teams is larger.
So, instead of word statpading, we should probably say that today is much easier to score a lot of league goals in general.

About classic statpading, you are right.
Neymar isn't statpading against small teams.
Messi and CR7 are.
In that part, I shouldn't say that Ney is statpading.

But my claim stands that 30 league goals from today are not better than 20, and especially not from 25 league goals from 2005, for example.

So, we should say that Ney is awesome and try to compare him with players from the current era.
We should leave Ronnie, Etoo and Rivaldo out of this.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Would i be allowed to balance things in the Messi thread too?

If you have a deathwish.

Its also clear that Suarez' thread is candyland since he was awesome in april, but he's had his fair share of criticism and one sub-par game could bring it all back

 

[Icarium]

Stats does not the full story bro. You are not taking the situation that there is more emphasis on attacking football now which is resulting in more goals. You only think of it as that there is drop in level of la liga. But that is not what happening here, you can see that la liga is improving over the last 5-6 years. It improved a lot actually. Bilbao, sevilla, atletico achievements in europe showed that much.

 

[Icarium]

Anyway one solution for this "statpadding" to stop is to change the head to head rule to GD. The small teams don't even try after being 1 or 2 goals down. They just let us f**k them hard.

 

[Zangash]

Can't believe he's starting vs Bayern. Didn't Lucho see him play against Cordoba? What on earth is he thinking?

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Anyway one solution for this "statpadding" to stop is to change the head to head rule to GD.

there may actually be some truth to that, interesting.

 

[Gasgas]

BBZ is contradicting his previous arguments. He used too say yes neymar's goals arent all that because we beat minnows 6-0 but then goes on to show how neymar scores just about the same n big games meaning his goals are all that