11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

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DennyCrane

Senior Member
I don't understand why Neymar gets so much hate here. Yeah i know his father is a greedy cunt but i don't think Neymar wants a move..

It's obviously not about his performances. It's because he seems as a player who is a bit flash, a bit lightweight, a little entitled and who falls over when someone farts in his general direction. His gold-plated douchebag-playboy public persona doesn't help either. Add his dad and the shady surroundings of his transfer and the product is a polarizing person. Compare that to Dinho: He liked to live it up a little too, but he had an aura of a child-like innocence to him so noone held that against him really. Or Dani, who redeemed his social media antics with comedy value.
Neymar's different: He doesn't come off as guileless or particularly funny even, quite the contrary; his public persona seems deliberately designed and people sense cold professionalism behind the cheery playboy attitude. Couple that with the fact that he's completely professional when advancing his career or establishing his brand (Read: when money is involved), he comes off as cunning as a consequence. All of that doesn't really amount to 'likeable'.

Having said that: On the other hand, none of that really matters and in my opinion there are tangible and understandable reasons for his behaviour in general and the bulk of it is pure self-preservation - just think about how many south american players have been screwed sideways by european clubs and had their careers destroyed as a consequence. His refusal to fit the stereotype of 'Slightly Guileless Brazilian Genius™' is also reasonable if you think about it - in other words: Can people really hold his calculated professionalism and business savvy against him in a world surrounded by the likes of Barto and Rosell ? And again, he has been absolutely stellar in the treble season and still very good this season despite the occasional off-game, so there's nothing to complain about on the football front really.

In case he's transfered, Barca can not compensate him because he's just that good. But I also strongly believe that if Neymar in fact wants to leave (which I'm not so sure about as the rumours might as well be made up bullshit), the club should let him go. Forcing this player with that kind of entourage to stay is asking for trouble - guarenteed.
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
i believe we should look past this rigid separation of player and entourage, in my opinion if a player was genuinely 100% on barca, the entourage wouldn't be attempting such moves (if the claims are true). I know that at the end of the day players play the sport for money despite what they put out in the media, but even considering that, I simply don't see the relentless drive in neymar to conquer the footballing world. While messi might be taking us to cleaners right now in terms of salary, in the rijkaard and guardiola era, money, sponsorships, brand etc. was the last thing on his mind. I'm not expecting Neymar to be Messi or any other great that was similarly motivated, what I am saying is that if he isn't 100% about football, we should reconsider before bending over backwards for him and his crew like we have been doing for 3 years and counting. he simply may not be worth it.
 

Icarium

Lifestealer
It's obviously not about his performances. It's because he seems as a player who is a bit flash, a bit lightweight, a little entitled and who falls over when someone farts in his general direction. His gold-plated douchebag-playboy public persona doesn't help either. Add his dad and the shady surroundings of his transfer and the product is a polarizing person. Compare that to Dinho: He liked to live it up a little too, but he had an aura of a child-like innocence to him so noone held that against him really. Or Dani, who redeemed his social media antics with comedy value.
Neymar's different: He doesn't come off as guileless or particularly funny even, quite the contrary; his public persona seems deliberately designed and people sense cold professionalism behind the cheery playboy attitude. Couple that with the fact that he's completely professional when advancing his career or establishing his brand (Read: when money is involved), he comes off as cunning as a consequence. All of that doesn't really amount to 'likeable'.

Having said that: On the other hand, none of that really matters and in my opinion there are tangible and understandable reasons for his behaviour in general and the bulk of it is pure self-preservation - just think about how many south american players have been screwed sideways by european clubs and had their careers destroyed as a consequence. His refusal to fit the stereotype of 'Slightly Guileless Brazilian Genius™' is also reasonable if you think about it - in other words: Can people really hold his calculated professionalism and business savvy against him in a world surrounded by the likes of Barto and Rosell ? And again, he has been absolutely stellar in the treble season and still very good this season despite the occasional off-game, so there's nothing to complain about on the football front really.

In case he's transfered, Barca can not compensate him because he's just that good. But I also strongly believe that if Neymar in fact wants to leave (which I'm not so sure about as the rumours might as well be made up bullshit), the club should let him go. Forcing this player with that kind of entourage to stay is asking for trouble - guarenteed.

Lot of reasons why people might hate Neymar, out of which some you have already mentioned. There are two major reasons why even some barca fans use the opportunities to hate him. First is his entourage and his dad, it is painfully clear that his dad is not interested in legacy of his son but only looks for move that makes more money and also don't want to make amends for the tax problems he created by himself. The same problems are faced by Messi's father but he is not pushing for a move like neymar sr because he knows what barca has done for his son and understands that he will not find a better club. That is considering how this stupid board tried to sell messi. Second is the legal troubles barca is facing because of his transfer. You gotta to understand that this is majorly on Barto Rosell and Neymar sr. The recent rumors of barto and rosell making a deal is even more worrisome. They have royally screwed us. But selling neymar will not solve our problems guys. We will still have to answer for the deal and pay the fines.

Now coming to the player, I still didn't understand how his behavior also gets so much criticism. This has to stop or at least be reserved. Just look at how cristiano is treated at real and how neymar is treated by barca fans. His on the pitch antics are not that bad compared to last year. But yes when off form he is very frustrating and tends to dive a lot and does some silly things and can be selfish sometimes. And here by selfish I mean he holds on to ball too long and doesn't create chances and just wastes possession. But that is majorly because of his bad form. That is his style if he was in good form he could create masterpiece from the same moves. I am only hoping he learns a thing or two from messi and gains maturity. That is a must if he has any hope of leading barca in future.

Now coming to the important part, how will we replace him again? Lets say we got 190M or sorts. Okay we will buy pogba for 120M odd. Who is that left winger that easily replaces neymar. Hazard? He doesn't score enough goals to replace the numbers produced by Neymar now that messi is getting better at being a playmaker we need a player who can score goals from left wing. MSN is the reason why we are so good today, why should we change that.

Edit: The last point I am not specifically asking you. I am just adding for what you said. He can't be replaced. It is like losing Iniesta or Xavi in 2010.
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
Now coming to the important part, how will we replace him again? Lets say we got 190M or sorts. Okay we will buy pogba for 120M odd. Who is that left winger that easily replaces neymar. Hazard? He doesn't score enough goals to replace the numbers produced by Neymar now that messi is getting better at being a playmaker we need a player who can score goals from left wing. MSN is the reason why we are so good today, why should we change that.

Not Hazard.
There is one other guy:

Edit: The last point I am not specifically asking you. I am just adding for what you said. He can't be replaced. It is like losing Iniesta or Xavi in 2010.

I can't agree with these comparisons.
He is NOT Xavi or Iniesta.

In terms of talent, yes.
In terms of motivation for football=lol, no
In terms of consistency over 12, 24, 36, 48, 60 Months=lol, no (when have Xavi and Iniesta let us down in key moments the way how Ney is doing?)

A lot of you when looking at Ney, you are looking mostly at his "good side".
When on form, Ney plays better than prime Xavi or Iniesta (maybe).
The problem is that he plays on form for what, 2-3 Months per season, and in other Months we get a good, but not THAT good player.

In numbers, my estimation:
Xavi would play on a level 99% of his skills for 9-10 Months per season.
And in other 2-3 Months, he would still play up to 80-90% of his skills.
He never had moments where Barca fans would yell: fuck off Xavi. A coach, take him out... He is ruining every single action etc.

Neymar:
When he is on form, he plays like Messi or Cr7 (almost).
But as said above, he plays that good only for short periods in each season.
It is maybe too early to conclude, but in my eyes, he is that type of a player. Messi tries (or at least tried over the last 10 years) to stay on top and in a top form for 12 Months or for as long as possible in each season. (CR7 also)
Neymar has huge changes in form (in all 3 seasons here. Remember his spring-breaks both in 2015 and 2016) from Ballon'D'Or winner to a player who is worst that Pedro (sorry Pedro for this).
-- so, Ney plays like Messi for 2-3 Months per season
-- then he is ok/good (but not Baloon D Or good) for 2-3 Months
-- and then he is absolutely horrible for 2-3-4 Months per season

So, I personally don't like these comparisons how he is like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta or similar.
Since 2000 to today, I can't find Barca's player who was able to be as hot and cold in form as Neymar.

The way I see Neymar currently, imagine that it is a spring of 2017, we play against Real or Atletico on a CL quarters or a CL:
What can you expect from Suarez in those matches?
= I know what we can expect, he will play as good as he always plays. And he will give 120% on a field
Iniesta?
= the same, according to his abilities
Raki?
= he will try and try. He will fail in creation sometimes, but he rarely let's you down with his work, motivation and effort
Messi?
= well, he lately has more bad days than 2-5 years ago. So, he may have a bad day also
Neymar?
= the same
-- he could play as a Ballon D Or player, or as a Neymar from last Months where all he does is his famous dribbling backwards, ruining 90% of touches and doing absolutely nothing for 90 Minutes

So, you see, Messi lately DOES have some motivational problems, but at least we had motivated Messi for 8-10 years.
It is understandable that he lost some of his motivation after 4 CLs with Barca.

Neymar, what has he achieved? 1 CL and he is already tired of football and success?

So, again, Neymar can't be compared to our former players.
Those guys were consistent.
Neymar is the most inconsistent key player which we had in the last 15 years.

So, if I someone would tell me (some time-traveller) that Neymar will have 2-3 world class Months in 2016/17, and again 2-3 Months period of horrible form during a season, I would say: sell him.

If Ney was a 30-40M player (liek Fabregas or Vidal) who plays hot and cold, it would be somewhat ok.
We wouldn't be satisfied, but ok.

But if your transfer and everything around it is worth 150-200 M in the past 3 years, well then you just CAN'T play as hot and cold as you are playing currently.
So, if we pay 150-200m for a guy, we expect something more.
And I am personally not impressed by 3 Months of world class form in autumn if he totally disappears in spring.

We will surely give him one more season as a benefit of a doubt, since he won't be sold this summer.
But again, if he will repeat the current season one more time (with hot and cold periods), then it will be a time to move on.
We really don't need a 200m leader who is a leader or a key player for only 30-50% of a season.

If Reus or someone is a slightly weaker player when on form, but if he delivers the same level of (his) quality/effort for 12 Months, than that player will bring more to Barca on larger samples.

Instead of Neymar, for whom you never know whether he will play at 100% or at 30% in the next week's CL semis or a final, I would rather have a slightly weaker guy, but with whom you know that he will always play up to 90-100% of his abilities.

Again, I could be horribly wrong, but everything around Neymar, his father, Neymar's celebrity persona, Neymar's on field antics, diving and similar, his idiotisms from NT matches and similar, just aren't giving me too much hopes that he will suddenly turn into a cold professional who will care mostly for football, his team, and his onfield form for 12 Months.

I don't have anything against Neymar.
If he can play and deliver consistently, then you are welcome here.

So, one more time for the end, imo:
Edit: The last point I am not specifically asking you. I am just adding for what you said. He can't be replaced. It is like losing Iniesta or Xavi in 2010.

On form Ney can't be replaced, I agree with you.
But Ney's form over 12 Months can be replicated imo.

Neymar is not only that guy who plays sometimes like a Ballon D Or guy.
His form over 12 Months is a much different and less godlike story.
 
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Ritchie

New member
Like Ronaldinho,, and a lot of Brazilian players, I don't think his peak will last too long. I also don't think his peak will ever be Ronaldinho level.
 

Topolino

Gemusesuppe
Reus is good and all but he's injured more often than Neymar is out of form.

I'd like to think that Neymar is smarter than Ronaldinho and he won't party his career away.
 

Icarium

Lifestealer
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] I am not comparing Neymar to Xavi or Iniesta. I am just comparing the impact of his departure if it happens in the first place. That is why I specifically mentioned 2010 that is when the Trio of Iniesta messi and Xavi was beginning to become something truly magical. If one of them had left then the impact would have felt very huge. If Neymar leaves now the impact might be exactly similar. Neymar is still 24, his consistency can be improved. My comparison was mainly because of there was a trio then which made us very good and the same we have now. I don't want to change that by any means. He is not tired of football or anything, just little distracted and off form over last few months. If he continues the same over next season then lot of your points make sense. Even when he is on form you still criticized him lot of times.

Reus is injury prone and even more inconsistent and on form Neymar is clearly better.
 

Sorin

Well-known member
Dybala is someone we should be after if we sell Neymar. Young and full of potential.

Reus is injury prone and a bit of a fairweather player. Plus he s already 27 yo.
 

Hardy

Senior Member
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Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Once again, as a BVB supporter and someone who watches BVB and Reus regularly, Reus is nowhere as good as Neymar, even when he is healthy. Don't let the highlights clips fool you.
 

SeloBarca

Senior Member
Dybala is another player we really should go after, which we coulda gotten for much cheaper.
If Neymar leaves hes the only one i think is a good replacement.
 

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
Dybala is another player we really should go after, which we coulda gotten for much cheaper.
If Neymar leaves hes the only one i think is a good replacement.

We'll need a left winger if Neymar leaves, Dybala is not one. In our formation, his position is right winger. His dribbles are ineffective on the left wing, he cuts inside from the right.
 
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