5 - Iñigo Martínez

[DonAndres]

What? You claimed he is 'dominant in the air' as one of his strengths? I said he isnt.

Where have I said he is shit in that air or being good in the air is all that is important?

You are making things up and trying to change the diection of the debate making up things I have said.

I never said "dominant" I said strong in the air, meaning as good in the air as he needs to be. Almost every argument you've made tries to point to the fact that he's not aerially dominant when in reality that's not completely true nor a decent reason to say he's a bad player.

 

[MessiDinho10]

Better yet, sign Carrol and stick him at CB

Because Carroll is tall

 

[JamDav1982]

I never said "dominant" I said strong in the air, meaning as good in the air as he needs to be. Almost every argument you've made tries to point to the fact that he's not aerially dominant when in reality that's not completely true nor a decent reason to say he's a bad player.

I believe being strong in the air IS ONE of the things Barcelona need from a new center back.

Glad that is cleared up.

DonAndres I may be wrong but is it you that argued with me that Barcelona should sign Amorebieta?

 

[DonAndres]

I believe being strong in the air IS ONE of the things Barcelona need from a new center back.

Glad that is cleared up.

DonAndres I may be wrong but is it you that argued with me that Barcelona should sign Amorebieta?

Amorebieta as a primary signing? Hell no.

I wouldn't be opposed to having him considering he was free at the time, but I never suggested that the club should put in any true effort or go to any real lengths to bring him in instead of focusing on someone who'd be a regular. Adding a free backup isn't at all harmful, especially considering what little depth we have. But he's gone to Fulham now and I could care less.

Of course being good in the air is one of the necessary things but whatever aerial ability Martinez has is sufficient. He's a great fit and would be for a decent price (estimating at around 20 million after negotiations). He was the 3rd best young player in la liga (right behind Koke and Isco) and one of the most consistent and well performing defenders overall, age ignored.

 

[JamDav1982]

Amorebieta as a primary signing? Hell no.

I wouldn't be opposed to having him considering he was free at the time, but I never suggested that the club should put in any true effort or go to any real lengths to bring him in instead of focusing on someone who'd be a regular. Adding a free backup isn't at all harmful, especially considering what little depth we have. But he's gone to Fulham now and I could care less.

Of course being good in the air is one of the necessary things but whatever aerial ability Martinez has is sufficient. He's a great fit and would be for a decent price (estimating at around 20 million after negotiations). He was the 3rd best young player in la liga (right behind Koke and Isco) and one of the most consistent and well performing defenders overall, age ignored.

Third best young player in the league and most consistent?

The average ratings MOTM awards etc dont seem to suggest that at all.

Dont get me wrong I like him but think he is one of those players that could go on to be a regular Spain intl or just a decent defender and wouldnt want to pay 30m for that.

 

[DonAndres]

If you're looking at ratings/motm awards, those really have many flaws in what they consider to be a good game. Mostly they tend to favor attacking players and defenders get defaulted low ratings even if they didn't have much to do during the games (yet still played well overall). Also compared to other young players in the league, his ratings are bound to be lower considering how much more games they have to average out from him. A player like Varane on the other hand has had a far smaller sample size of playing time yet the rating system favors him because his performances in the few games show highly, which wouldn't be as true if it were balanced out throughout the season. Courtois is barely behind Martinez in my ranking of youngsters IMO mainly because he was shielded a lot by the Atletico defense. Martinez on the other hand played constantly well even under pressure from attackers and stood out in his backline (only outshined by an outstanding Carlos Martinez). X factors aren't taken into account many times during rating systems.

 

[JamDav1982]

If you're looking at ratings/motm awards, those really have many flaws in what they consider to be a good game. Mostly they tend to favor attacking players and defenders get defaulted low ratings even if they didn't have much to do during the games (yet still played well overall). Also compared to other young players in the league, his ratings are bound to be lower considering how much more games they have to average out from him. A player like Varane on the other hand has had a far smaller sample size of playing time yet the rating system favors him because his performances in the few games show highly, which wouldn't be as true if it were balanced out throughout the season. Courtois is barely behind Martinez in my ranking of youngsters IMO mainly because he was shielded a lot by the Atletico defense. Martinez on the other hand played constantly well even under pressure from attackers and stood out in his backline (only outshined by an outstanding Carlos Martinez). X factors aren't taken into account many times during rating systems.

If you're looking at ratings/motm awards, those really have many flaws in what they consider to be a good game. Mostly they tend to favor attacking players and defenders get defaulted low ratings even if they didn't have much to do during the games (yet still played well overall)

Not the case I am afraid a defender had the bets average rating for Sociedad and another two defenders had better rating than him.

How did he stand out in the back line if he was fourth in terms of defenders average ratings?

Your arguments seem to get weaker and more random all the time.

 

[DonAndres]

That's why rating systems can't always be trusted. They're sporadic in accuracy and don't take into account all the factors. It's really a testament to how wildly stupid those systems are when a player like Naldo is considered better than Thiago Silva because of statistics. Gameplay shows that the only defender on Soceidad who outshined him was Carlos Martinez.

 

[JamDav1982]

That's why rating systems can't always be trusted. They're sporadic in accuracy and don't take into account all the factors. It's really a testament to how wildly stupid those systems are when a player like Naldo is considered better than Thiago Silva because of statistics. Gameplay shows that the only defender on Soceidad who outshined him was Carlos Martinez.

No it doesnt.

Average ratings and stats are to be considered....unless they contradict your opinions.

 

[DonAndres]

No it doesnt.

Average ratings and stats are to be considered....unless they contradict your opinions.

It's not like those ratings or stats are completely concrete justifications of a player's performance. They give you an overview of numbers that are sometimes useful but if you're really going to decide who a better player is in sports completely off of a numeric system created by a computer, then it's just deluded. Pointing to a statistic rating to say Martinez was the 4th best defender on his team is completely wrong and has no solid foundation especially when there have been many people with informed opinions after thorough observation that say otherwise.

 

[ceefoo]

Dani Alves is rated 7th overall out of Barcas entire squad.

Everyone knows that Dani Alves was one of our WORST players of last (2012-13) season.

The whoscored (I'm guessing that's the source) player ratings are calculated with a mathematical approach, rather than a subjective and holistic one.

 

[Deco 20]

I don't think Alves was one of our worst players, it's just that the system didn't work

 

[ceefoo]

I don't think Alves was one of our worst players, it's just that the system didn't work

Watch his performances again.

- See the number of times he gets caught out of position.
- His lazy attempts to stop a cross.
- His lacklustre chasing back, when we got countered.
- The vast number of times his crosses never found their mark.
- The number of times he made reckless and unnecessary fouls.
- How he got himself into a shooting position, only to pass, and thus lose the chance to score.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Barcelona logic: We lack height at the back... Let's sign another midget.

 

[AvocadoCake]

I don't think Alves was one of our worst players, it's just that the system didn't work

I think he was, that's why I was so disappointed the Alves-->Monaco rumours started to disappear.