7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1

[Jombi]

Except Bellerin is barely more proven than Semedo.

Apples and oranges.

We needed a young CB for the future with our already established CB duo in Mascherano-Pique and we needed a young RB since any established RB out there was impossible to get since....news alert......there are very few established RBs out there in the first place. Most of them are either young, had one breakout season or simply average/mediocre.

For the midfield however you need World Class players. Barca need to have their midfield improve right away. It need to be players who can add something and increase the quality of the team right away, not a project who's 2-3 years away from reaching that stage, especially since we already have a project in Carles Alenya.

Does this mean 25+ signings? No, age doesn't matter here, but it need to be someone with those characteristics. Is Torreira that? Not yet, but he might be that soon. I would sign him, BUT only along with a WC MF.

People generally believe that players who perform in the EPL are proven. That was the argument against both Nelsinho and Umtiti and Mbappe as well. Players like Umtiti wouldnt be a "project". I think people are confusing 17 year old kids from some lower league with 23 year olds who have dominated some of the top leagues in Europe. Both are labeled "unproven talents" but they are a world apart.

We simply cant expect us to sign these superstars from rich clubs anymore. We need to focus on young, quality players from significantly poorer teams. The fact that Dembele cost us 150m should be a wake-up call.

 

[JamDav1982]

People generally believe that players who perform in the EPL are proven. That was the argument against both Nelsinho and Umtiti and Mbappe as well. Players like Umtiti wouldnt be a "project". I think people are confusing 17 year old kids from some lower league with 23 year olds who have dominated some of the top leagues in Europe. Both are labeled "unproven talents" but they are a world apart.

We simply cant expect us to sign these superstars from rich clubs anymore. We need to focus on young, quality players from significantly poorer teams. The fact that Dembele cost us 150m should be a wake-up call.

No they dont.

Bellerin was never classed as a 'proven' talent as played in EPL. Clean making that up.

You yourself argued about Semedo being unproven when discussing not wanting to pay more than 35m for him and listed fullbacks from same league who played well there and failed.

 

[DonAK]

People generally believe that players who perform in the EPL are proven. That was the argument against both Nelsinho and Umtiti and Mbappe as well. Players like Umtiti wouldnt be a "project". I think people are confusing 17 year old kids from some lower league with 23 year olds who have dominated some of the top leagues in Europe. Both are labeled "unproven talents" but they are a world apart.

We simply cant expect us to sign these superstars from rich clubs anymore. We need to focus on young, quality players from significantly poorer teams. The fact that Dembele cost us 150m should be a wake-up call.

I'm not arguing against that, however, Barca need their midfield improved right away.

We cannot simply sign Carlos Soler and say that's it.

We need someone to add the quality needed right now to lift this team and help out Messi right now. That's where players like Coutinho or Lemar or similar players comes in.

We have a project, young player already in Alenya. I'm all for adding another highly rated one in Torreira, but only with an established player like a Coutinho.

 

[Nothanks]

Barca has always bought players for nearly record breaking numbers
Hell umtiti, believe it or not is our most expensive CB signing along with Chygrynskiy (LOL)

I'm not suggesting to buy Coutinho because "he plays in EPL so he must be good" just that he is more established than say a dembele who only had 2 professional seasons or Mbappe who just made his debut last season. Coutinho should be the safer option.. not saying he might not flop but everyone can flop..

 

[Jombi]

I don't care about their ages. It need to be someone who can add quality to the team and make us a serious CL contender right away.

That's why you need players such as Coutinho or Lemar who will cost more or less the same now. Not Fabian Ruiz or Carlos Soler.

Funny, I wanted us to sign Thomas Lemar last summer together with Fabinho when we could have gotten both for probably 50-60m euros combined. Then they blew up and now their price has increased 5-fold. Was that not a mistake by us? Same arguments was used. They are not proven, not world class, need something better who can perform right away because of Messi etc. This summer their price was through the roof.

Lets take another example. Ceballos. How would he perform for us this season? He had a great season last season. What would he add to our midfield? Just an unproven kid you might say but these are players who could easily perform far, far better than what we have in our team currently.

 

[JamDav1982]

Funny, I wanted us to sign Thomas Lemar last summer together with Fabinho when we could have gotten both for probably 50-60m euros combined. Then they blew up and now their price has increased 5-fold. Was that not a mistake by us? Same arguments was used. They are not proven, not world class, need something better who can perform right away because of Messi etc. This summer their price was through the roof.

Lets take another example. Ceballos. How would he perform for us this season? He had a great season last season. What would he add to our midfield? Just an unproven kid you might say but these are players who could easily perform far, far better than what we have in our team currently.

Want to list all the players you wanted Barca to sign that turned out to be nowhere near good enough as well?

That is the risk of chasing young players. Easy to look back and cherry pick ones that were good enough in the end.

 

[Nothanks]

Just because we want someone doesn't mean they'll come though.

we also wanted Dembele before he moved to Dortmund and he refused us for more minutes, Lemar probably would of refused us aswell having to play behind neymar and iniesta rather than start a full season

gabriel jesus rejected us, cabellos rejected us... you're assuming we are not trying which is false

Umtiti came because his competition was literally Vermalean, and Mascherano oh and mathieu

Semedo came because his competition was vidal and sergi roberto lol

 

[Jombi]

Just because we want someone doesn't mean they'll come though.

we also wanted Dembele before he moved to Dortmund and he refused us for more minutes, Lemar probably would of refused us aswell having to play behind neymar and iniesta rather than start a full season

gabriel jesus rejected us, cabellos rejected us... you're assuming we are not trying which is false

Umtiti came because his competition was literally Vermalean, and Mascherano oh and mathieu

Semedo came because his competition was vidal and sergi roberto lol

Thats excuses and besides the point. What we are discussing is not that every quality player is rejecting us. What we are discussing is whether they are good enough even though they are young. And they are good enough. They are not "unproven talents" who need 5 years to perform.

 

[Jombi]

Want to list all the players you wanted Barca to sign that turned out to be nowhere near good enough as well?

That is the risk of chasing young players. Easy to look back and cherry pick ones that were good enough in the end.

Thomas Lemar and Fabinho were my two favorite options last summer before they blew up this summer. In the end, we bought Andre Gomes who I thought was incredibly mediocre at Valencia. Imagine if we had Lemar and Fabinho instead of Gomes today. Massive mistake.

 

[khaled_a_d]

After 2 years I think we all know Jombi opinion on going for young talents over established players. I think there is no point of making this argument for 37th time
One thing for sure, Coutinho isn't a pipe-dream. PSG will be out of the market big signing next summer as they will have to pay Mpabbe and Liverpool would prefer to sell to someone outside of EPL. They won't keep unhappy player 2 years in row,won't happen.
It is question of how much we should go for him, and balancing our non-eu players too

 

[JamDav1982]

Thomas Lemar and Fabinho were my two favorite options last summer before they blew up this summer. In the end, we bought Andre Gomes who I thought was incredibly mediocre at Valencia. Imagine if we had Lemar and Fabinho instead of Gomes today. Massive mistake.

Pretty sure you were pissed off Barca didnt pay 25m for Mustafi as well last summer and he is nowhere near good enough.

You called Sandro an absolute bargain this summer when Real were interested where he now looks a bit of a dud.

Easy to cherry pick ones that turned out good in the end when name so many young players that are greta signings.

The club need to do both. Established players at a decent enough age and look for young players on way up. Every top side going has been built like that.

 

[Jombi]

After 2 years I think we all know Jombi opinion on going for young talents over established players. I think there is no point of making this argument for 37th time
One thing for sure, Coutinho isn't a pipe-dream. PSG will be out of the market big signing next summer as they will have to pay Mpabbe and Liverpool would prefer to sell to someone outside of EPL. They won't keep unhappy player 2 years in row,won't happen.
It is question of how much we should go for him, and balancing our non-eu players too

The term "talent" is so fraught with misunderstanding that it shouldnt really be used. People treat a 17 year old kid from Slovakia the same as great 23 year old players from France or Spain. Never have I said that we should go for young talents over established players. I merely say that we should go for young quality players who have proven themselves in top leagues instead of chasing pipe dreams and overpriced garbage. There is a huge difference in signing cheap young players and massively overpriced old players looking for their last fat paycheck. The amount of garbage at our club at the moment getting a fat paycheck who we paid a lot of money for and we cant get rid of is proving to be a massive obstacle to our freedom in the transfer market.

 

[Jombi]

Pretty sure you were pissed off Barca didnt pay 25m for Mustafi as well last summer and he is nowhere near good enough.

You called Sandro an absolute bargain this summer when Real were interested where he now looks a bit of a dud.

Easy to cherry pick ones that turned out good in the end when name so many young players that are greta signings.

The club need to do both. Established players at a decent enough age and look for young players on way up. Every top side going has been built like that.

Sandro? 5m for a striker on low wages is absolutely nothing. Compare that to signing massively expensive garbage and the potential risk is very low. I dont see the problem with that at all. Even if Sandro wouldnt have performed for us (who knows?) he wouldnt harm our finances. Sign quality young players. Only very rarely should we try to sign pipe dreams and old players looking for their last big paycheck. That should be bosman signings or signings with one year left on their contract.

 

[khaled_a_d]

The term "talent" is so fraught with misunderstanding that it shouldnt really be used. People treat a 17 year old kid from Slovakia the same as great 23 year old players from France or Spain. Never have I said that we should go for young talents over established players. I merely say that we should go for young quality players instead of chasing pipe dreams and overpriced garbage. There is a huge difference in signing dirt cheap young players and massively overpriced old players looking for their last fat paycheck. The amount of garbage at our club at the moment getting a fat paycheck who we paid a lot of money for and we cant get rid of is proving to be a massive obstacle to our freedom in the transfer market.

Fair enough, and that is what I meant by saying you prefer young talents. And you have been right many times (and wrong in others,like everyone of us) so I get you have your points. Wasn't arguing about it, just saying no point to repeat ourselves.
I kind agree with Jamdav that we have to balance things, you need propects, young players and established ones. can't go all out in only one of those
As for Coutinho, he is 25 and will be just 26 if he arrives next year, he isn't old fart going for last paycheck tbf. He is a player who should give us 5 or 6 years at top level. And he is an immediate upgrade to our offensive build up that we are in urgent need.
I hope we go for someone else, and I hope someone else will emerge who is younger and easier to get. tbh I don't see anyone so far who would give us same upgrade as him, may be someone else will emerge,we will see

 

[JamDav1982]

Sandro? 5m for a striker on low wages is absolutely nothing. Compare that to signing massively expensive garbage and the potential risk is very low. I dont see the problem with that at all. Even if Sandro wouldnt have performed for us (who knows?) he wouldnt harm our finances. Sign quality young players. Only very rarely should we try to sign pipe dreams and old players looking for their last big paycheck. That should be bosman signings or signings with one year left on their contract.

Sandro wasnt and isnt a bargain for Real or Barca as he is nowhere near good enough and although early days at Everton looks exactly that.

Such a great bargain is unlikely to end up at Everton.

Sandro would have been a terrible signing, isnt now and wasnt good enough when was at club previously.

Just because there are other more expensive wastes of money doesnt have any relevance to him not being good enough and Real would never have thought for a single second he a possible signing.

Sandro is rumoured to be on about 130k a week which as well which is a lot more than a lot of the Barca players who are said to be on huge money.