8 - Pedri

[JamDav1982]

When the press is this intense, you need multiple midfielders to show up for the ball. Not just one lol. All 3 need to do it. Not stand up higher because then the ball will never get to you.

If you're right and Koeman doesn't understand this... that's actually the worst scenario.

Not the point and teams will never be set up for all three mids to look for ball from defence in middle of park regularly.

Pedri is not hiding he is being asked to play that way and stay higher up without a doubt.

 

[JohnN]

He looked weak last game. Didn't present to get the ball. Didn't play any forward passes. No dribbles. No shots. No one twos.
Sorry but he did absolutely nothing.
Perhaps he is too young to judge, but he has become a starter at Barca so we kind of have to.
P.s.: please don't compare him to Iniesta. That's too big it a task.

 

[vegitot]

No he is being set up to play the same role but isnt working due to differences in the teams.

That is the point.

Being set up in same role Lucho gives him. There is not some idea Lucho uses him in a different way that would work as he does with Spain.

Different team yes. But i think Lucho allows him to move forward more and plays with more freedom, with Busquest and Koke supports behind. Koeman plays him in a way more strict role.

Maybe because of match fit as well.

 

[BusiTheKing]

Don't think he gets outmuscled that much. I think he has issues in getting in possession. He hides too much. Both him and Busi. It was very visible last night. When we tried to get the ball out from defense, the midfielders just didn't deliver. Only De Jong proved his class.

I agree. When you have two players in midfield who are fairly easy to neutralize with organized pressure, then then whole midfield is drowned out. If one of either Busi or Pedri were more mobile, it would free up space for the other one to do their thing, get their own flow going. But two out of three marked out and everybody is stuck pulling a burden that they're not really made for.

 

[serghei]

Not the point and teams will never be set up for all three mids to look for ball from defence in middle of park regularly.

Pedri is not hiding he is being asked to play that way and stay higher up without a doubt.

Opponents don't press like that regularly either, the press from Bilbao in the first half was total. If you don't ask your midfielders to show up for passes and help out the defense, then only way to bring the ball up is long ball over the midfield. If you try to force it to players under tight marking, it's turnover after turnover. Like it was last night.

I think it's a combination of both tbh. Koeman is mediocre at setting up a midfield, and both Busi and Pedri have mobility issues because they are very slow players.

 

[JamDav1982]

Pedri is not failing to get on ball out from defence as he is too slow.

Irrelevant to group him with Busi on that.

 

[JohnN]

Opponents don't press like that regularly either, the press from Bilbao in the first half was total. If you don't ask your midfielders to show up for passes and help out the defense, then only way to bring the ball up is long ball over the midfield. If you try to force it to players under tight marking, it's turnover after turnover. Like it was last night.

I think it's a combination of both tbh. Koeman is mediocre at setting up a midfield, and both Busi and Pedri have mobility issues because they are very slow players.

Since our mids and not running machines, but are exceptional close range, fast passers, Koeman should focus more on triangles and patterns to break out of defense. But he is not on that level.

 

[JamDav1982]

Opponents don't press like that regularly either, the press from Bilbao in the first half was total. If you don't ask your midfielders to show up for passes and help out the defense, then only way to bring the ball up is long ball over the midfield. If you try to force it to players under tight marking, it's turnover after turnover. Like it was last night.

No team will set up to ask all three mids to take ball from defence regularly and no one is saying Pedri is told to never show up or try to move to take it higher up park.

One top DM makes a huge difference. Having two is more than enough to be looking for ball short from defence regularly.

Pedri is not hiding.

 

[vegitot]

Opponents don't press like that regularly either, the press from Bilbao in the first half was total. If you don't ask your midfielders to show up for passes and help out the defense, then only way to bring the ball up is long ball over the midfield. If you try to force it to players under tight marking, it's turnover after turnover. Like it was last night.

I think it's a combination of both tbh. Koeman is mediocre at setting up a midfield, and both Busi and Pedri have mobility issues because they are very slow players.

Pedri has no problem last game to carry the ball away from pressing. His problem is his attacking.

 

[serghei]

I agree. When you have two players in midfield who are fairly easy to neutralize with organized pressure, then then whole midfield is drowned out. If one of either Busi or Pedri were more mobile, it would free up space for the other one to do their thing, get their own flow going. But two out of three marked out and everybody is stuck pulling a burden that they're not really made for.

Yea, and as soon as that happened, the defense panicked as well (not that it takes much for them to panic, 2-3 players there have a predisposition to shit themselves under pressure). Because they kept getting passed to initiate build-up under pressure, with very few viable passing targets. For a short-passing possession game that's a bad proposition every single time. \

Last night, Koeman should have played long ball with the midfield he set up, both in terms of player selection and tactics. Play long ball and push the defense up. Do the same thing to Bilbao with our front 3 applying pressure after each clearence.

 

[JamDav1982]

Pedri was not being neutralised while looking to take ball from defence as he was 'hiding' or too slow. Pure fabrication.

 

[serghei]

Pedri was not being neutralised while looking to take ball from defence as he was 'hiding' or too slow. Pure fabrication.

Why did he register such a low presence in the game according to you then? Don't just blame Busi and that's it.

 

[vegitot]

Why did he register such a low presence in the game according to you then? Don't just blame Busi and that's it.

By the number of touch??? Lol.
Only when it comes to attcking he surely is almost invisible (due to match fit and the role he plays).

 

[JamDav1982]

Why did he register such a low presence in the game according to you then? Don't just blame Busi and that's it.

I said why... he was being asked to play higher up the park and more inbetween lines.

Failed to get ball to him in any dangerous areas as... Busi and defence/mid completely failed to play ball up park and Bilbao played high line against lack of pace and rarely if ever Pedri could get ball to feet in final third and areas could hurt teams as did with Spain.

Wasnt great when he got the ball either but little options to play in way being asked to.

 

[JohnN]

I said why... he was being asked to play higher up the park and more inbetween lines.

Failed to get ball to him in any dangerous areas as... Busi and defence/mid completely failed to play ball up park and Bilbao played high line against lack of pace and rarely if ever Pedri could get ball to feet in final third and areas could hurt teams as did with Spain.

Both Pedri and Griezmann suffered from their positioning. It was like Koeman put them out of the game with those instructions. Our defense-mids couldn't get the ball anywhere near them. It's no coincidence Messi dropped deep in such games many times.
If we want to beat the press,we need to overcrowd the midfield with technical players or have really fast forwards to long ball to them. The later is not happening without Dembele, but the former is doable. Only if Koeman could use out strengths.