8 - Pedri

[vegitot]

It's called a midfield trio in 4-3-3 for a reason. If the 3 are extremely isolated, the manager is doing a piss poor job.

No one said Koeman has a good game. Quite opposite.

Saying two CMs play with the same role (same offensive and defensive role) is just wrong.

Yeah like i can say Gattuso and Pirlo played with same role as they were both DM in team formation.

 

[serghei]

Dont talk shit.

Formations are fluid and very different roles between the three mids.

Saying 'midfield trio' means absolutely nothing.

It means, that the 3 need to play close to each other in order to control the midfield, that's how the system is supposed to operate when there is pressure involved. Maybe watch a bit of Xavi, Busi, Iniesta, and see the distance between them or Messi (when he participated to midfield).

Under Koeman, it is Busi (lol) vs 2-3 while the other 2 are sitting higher waiting for some magic passes that rarely come. I've seen this far too much already. Koeman is very much a conservative manager. He will have a basic setup, quite stiff (reminds me of EV), and bank it on player quality to carry him through. Not really how modern football goes these days. Unless you have an elite side in place, in which case any decent manager will do.

The midfield trio works like a sponge. When the passing lanes are more generous, the sponge expands and lets the ball do the work. When there is pressure on the ball carrier and no comfortable pass options in sight, the sponge contracts as to present ways out and beat the press in close compartments. Then as the pressure is relieved, expands again, pretty quickly. With Koeman, it's expanded all the time. There's not much tactical nous at display here. Don't kid yourself.

Even a Championship team in England with legs and stamina to carry all game could put this Koeman Barca under heavy stress. And don't tell me they have better players lol.

 

[JohnN]

It means, that the 3 need to play close to each other in order to control midfield. Maybe watch a bit of Xavi, Busi, Iniesta, and see the distance between them or Messi (when he participated to midfield).

Under Koeman, is Busi (lol) vs 2-3 while the other 2 are sitting higher waiting for some magic passes that rarely come.

Too much distance between the lines and between the players in the lines. We need to be more compact.

 

[JamDav1982]

It means, that the 3 need to play close to each other in order to control midfield. Maybe watch a bit of Xavi, Busi, Iniesta, and see the distance between them or Messi (when he participated to midfield).

Under Koeman, is Busi (lol) vs 2-3 while the other 2 are sitting higher waiting for some magic passes that rarely come.

Nonsense and it breaks down before even gets to that point.

Iniesta played further forward and to left than both Xavi and Busi but they could involve him regularly.

You act like it is being claimed Pedri was playing with front three and never coming back or looking for ball.

Stop making things up and claiming 'under Koeman' he has rarely if ever set up team you are claiming is his preferred style and it is not an argument that Koeman got it right last night either.

 

[mc_lovin]

Too much distance between the lines and between the players in the lines. We need to be more compact.

I don't think it's a winning strategy for us to play too close/compact. We don't have many player that strive with no space anymore (like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, which is an absurd benchmark anyway). Good luck trying to be decisive with Braithwaite and Griezmann against a caged in opponent.

 

[JohnN]

I don't think it's a winning strategy for us to play too close/compact. We don't have many player that strive with no space anymore (like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, which is an absurd benchmark anyway). Good luck trying to be decisive with Braithwaite and Griezmann against a caged in opponent.

Unfortunately this is true, but at least we are kind of better in close spaces than making runs for long balls. In that sense, we should try to user our better qualities (passing) to a better extent.
I mean, why the hell do we do all this rondos if we can't use them at all.

 

[mc_lovin]

Unfortunately this is true, but at least we are kind of better in close spaces than making runs for long balls. In that sense, we should try to user our better qualities (passing) to a better extent.
I mean, why the hell do we do all this rondos if we can't use them at all.

I think we have a few very simple solutions that should improve us (like Ansu returning). We will see what's possible then. A draw against Bilbao is hardly the worst result (even though it felt like they thoroughly dismantled us).

Talking too much now about how Pedri didn't churn out an Iniesta-like performance is counter productive.

 

[JamDav1982]

The issue with playing compact is Barca dont have threat of playing ball out from back and then spring attack into open space with pacey forwards.

Barca at their best were allowed by other teams to take ball out from back as the technical level was so high and threat from forwards was there to kill any team they beat the press on.

Barca back then were not only best in build up and on break and teams knew it.

This Barca.... the full backs are shaky at best trying play ball out from back and midfield offers not enough options with again Busi prime culprit. Also no real threat of pace/hitting on counter if beat that press as high line v not much going in behind.

Will go back to it but for me Busi needs dropped and a double pivot with pace up top to try and counter all those issues.

 

[serghei]

Too much distance between the lines and between the players in the lines. We need to be more compact.

Only when under pressure. Or kick it long (but we don't wanna do that) in which case you can keep higher positions. There's no magic trick. When pressed, the 2 interiors need to help out and stay close to the player on the ball. There's no point in waiting for the ball high up when the ball almost never reaches you because of possession spills deeper.

For example, when the ball is at Dest, the right interior needs to presents a progressive pass option, even if there is one already. When the ball is at Alba, the left interior needs to do the same. When the ball is at Busi, both the right and left interior need to show up. Sometimes, under better managers, even the forwards are in somewhat touching distance for a more direct powerful pass (maybe down the line, or even on the inside).

Under Barca, all of these options are scarce. Of course, player quality is not great now, but the manager is not very good either. And right now it's much easier to change the manager and bring in Xavi than to sign big money stars.

 

[serghei]

Nonsense and it breaks down before even gets to that point.

Iniesta played further forward and to left than both Xavi and Busi but they could involve him regularly.

You act like it is being claimed Pedri was playing with front three and never coming back or looking for ball.

Stop making things up and claiming 'under Koeman' he has rarely if ever set up team you are claiming is his preferred style and it is not an argument that Koeman got it right last night either.

He did look for the ball but:

a) not quick enough (his fault)
b) not often enough (his and Koeman's fault, impossible to tell which is more prevalent)

leading to c)

He is a slow player who's been played to death and needs rest. He is rather slow even when in mint physical condition. Imagine his output in the speed and intensity areas when he's last had a break in 2019. If this is his real intensity in a high-press game, and the tiredness factor is completely negligible, then he is not as good as touted. And he will struggle a lot vs bigger teams, while looking class vs Getafe and such.

Basically, whenever he made those approaching moves, it was a piece of cake for the Bilbao players to track it and block it because it was done at very low energy levels.

 

[vegitot]

He did look for the ball but:

a) not quick enough (his fault)
b) not often enough (his and Koeman's fault, impossible to tell which of them is more prevalent)

leading to c)

He is a slow player who's been played to death and needs rest. He is rather slow even when in mint physical condition. Imagine his output in the speed and intensity areas when he's last had a break in 2019.

Basically, whenever he made those approaching moves, it was a piece of cake for the Bilbao players to track it and block it.

Do you know that statstically Pedri is among the best player in Euro 2020???

 

[JamDav1982]

He did look for the ball but:

a) not quick enough
b) not often enough

leading to c)

He is a slow player who's been played to death and needs rest. He is rather slow even when in mint physical condition. Imagine his output in the speed and intensity areas when he's last had a break in 2019.

He looked for ball in areas is being expected to receive it and not due to lack of pace or not wanting it enough.

Dont agree he looked knackered but more the set up of the team was wrong to get him ball in areas he can hurt teams.

 

[serghei]

Do you know that statstically Pedri is among the best player in Euro 2020???

Yea, all players were pretty tired at this Euro and the intensity was not really high. Club football is much more fierce. Not really a great indicator. Lets see him this season vs AM, Bilbao, Sevilla, and in CL.

His problem is pressing so far. When he has space to make his moves he is class. But pressure is to be expected at the top especially in club football where you face well-drilled teams like that Bilbao team Marcelino set up.

 

[JamDav1982]

For me he works better when pressed as he is more of an off the cuff type player that will look to suck in opposition and make things happen from there.

Struggles more for now when expected to go and get on ball and dominate it with more simple passes in space.

All that ties in to him being needed to get balls in correct area in final third and something his game needs to develop away from as too reliant on others to help him dominate rather than try to take a game over.

 

[vegitot]

Yea, all players were pretty tired at this Euro. Not really a great indicator. Lets see him this season vs AM, Bilbao, Sevilla, and in CL.

Interesting fact for your question:
"Across La Liga in 2020-21, only eight players were involved in more attacking sequences than Pedri (155), with the majority of his involvement in the build-up play for shots (60%)."

That said i don't think he can be game changer vs top teams. De Jong neither.