8 - Pedri

[serghei]

I said why... he was being asked to play higher up the park and more inbetween lines.

Failed to get ball to him in any dangerous areas as... Busi and defence/mid completely failed to play ball up park and Bilbao played high line against lack of pace and rarely if ever Pedri could get ball to feet in final third and areas could hurt teams as did with Spain.

That's it? So, we had 4 players (the 3 attackers + Pedri) sitting up while Bilbao was pressing us man for man up in defense? And you think this is OK from Koemans' perspective? He managed the game well according to you?

Also, De Jong was positioned similarly to Pedri. That's how Koeman plays. The midfielders next to DM both have offensive roles. Which is terrible whenever we need to build from the back under heavy press. De Jong was both more effective upfront, and helped out the defense more, registering the most touches out of all midfielders.

The difference is De Jong was in a different league to Pedri last night because of his superior athletic qualities (strength, speed, stamina). Both had similar interior roles with presence in offense required. De Jong delivered an all-around good performance in all areas, while Pedri hid and delivered in none.

 

[mc_lovin]

I said why... he was being asked to play higher up the park and more inbetween lines.

Failed to get ball to him in any dangerous areas as... Busi and defence/mid completely failed to play ball up park and Bilbao played high line against lack of pace and rarely if ever Pedri could get ball to feet in final third and areas could hurt teams as did with Spain.

Wasnt great when he got the ball either but little options to play in way being asked to.

It's not really fair to just blame the defence/Busquets. We badly need wingers capable of carrying the ball forward vs a high press as well.

 

[JamDav1982]

That's it? So, we had 4 players (the 3 attackers + Pedri) sitting up while Bilbao was pressing us man for man up in defense? And you think this is OK from Koemans' perspective? He managed the game well according to you?

Also, De Jong was positioned similarly to Pedri. That's how Koeman plays. The midfielders next to DM both have offensive roles. De Jong was both more effective upfront, and helped out the defense more, registering the most touches out of all midfielders.

What are you on about?

I said that Pedri being asked to play in same way for Spain didnt work and gave the reasons why it didnt work.

No FDJ was not asked to play same role as Pedri at all. Wasnt last season and wasnt last night.

 

[JamDav1982]

It's not really fair to just blame the defence/Busquets. We badly need wingers capable of carrying the ball forward vs a high press as well.

Clearly didnt just blame Busi and defence and said lack of pace in front line allowed Bilbao to play high line.

 

[vegitot]

That's it? So, we had 4 players (the 3 attackers + Pedri) sitting up while Bilbao was pressing us man for man up in defense? And you think this is OK from Koemans' perspective? He managed the game well according to you?

Also, De Jong was positioned similarly to Pedri. That's how Koeman plays. The midfielders next to DM both have offensive roles. De Jong was both more effective upfront, and helped out the defense more, registering the most touches out of all midfielders.

The difference is De Jong in a different league to Pedri last night. Both had similar interior roles with presence in offense. De Jong delivered an all around top performance in all areas, while Pedri hid and delivered in none.

You compare a 24 years old, full match fit De Jong who enjoys his physical peak to a 18 years old, tired Pedri???

And if you think both De Jong and Pedri share the same offensive role then you are wrong in every sense. De Jong is the main man of midfield.

 

[serghei]

What are you on about?

I said that Pedri being asked to play in same way for Spain didnt work and gave the reasons why it didnt work.

No FDJ was not asked to play same role as Pedri at all. Wasnt last season and wasnt last night.

Almost the same role. That's Koeman football. 1DM, 2 box-to-box with more extensive AM roles. Pedri and De Jong are similar in terms of roles under him. No CM is actually required to help out defense in build-up other than Busi. De Jong simply is the superior athlete of the two, which means he gets to do more because of this.

This creates a bottleneck effect in build-up. Swarm Busi (not hard at all) and the supply upfront is cut short because Koeman doesn't have much else to give tactically.

 

[mc_lovin]

Clearly didnt just blame Busi and defence and said lack of pace in front line allowed Bilbao to play high line.

I don't necessarily think it's about pace only, but buildup as well. Braithwaite and Griezmann can't solve complicated situations on the flank. But yeah, I guess we mostly agree.

 

[JamDav1982]

Almost the same role. That's Koeman football. 1DM, 2 box-to-box with more extensive AM roles. Pedri and De Jong are similar in terms of roles under him. No CM is actually required to help out defense in build-up other than Busi.

This creates a bottleneck effect. Swarm Busi (not hard at all) and the supply up front is cut short because Koeman doesn't have much else to give tactically.

No not even remotely same role for FDJ and Pedri and no that is not 'Koeman football' either.

Barely if ever played that system all last season.

 

[serghei]

No not even remotely same role for FDJ and Pedri and no that is not 'Koeman football' either.

Barely if ever played that system all last season.

Ok, so I got it from you. Not Koeman's fault, and not Pedri's fault either for missing from the game. All on Busi (and the defense).

The right answer would be a combination of both. Koeman was schooled by Bilbao's manager (made him look like fecking peak Klopp) in the first half, and Pedri let the pressure get to him and delivered a weak all around performance with little contribution in any phase. Attack, build-up, you name it.

 

[JamDav1982]

I don't necessarily think it's about pace only, but buildup as well. Braithwaite and Griezmann can't solve complicated situations on the flank. But yeah, I guess we mostly agree.

Cant think of any wide players going that dont have pace that would stop that high line really but yeah point is the same I think.

The lack of threat from front line to get in behind means a high line that puts more pressure on defence/midfield and stops the mids attackers getting ball in final third.

 

[JamDav1982]

Ok, so I got it from you. Not Koemans' fault, and not Pedri's fault either for missing from the game. All on Busi.

Your worst strawman yet that one.

I clearly said Pedri did not play well within the game and didnt like way team was set up... and yes primarily dont like Busi as lone DM.

 

[serghei]

Your worst strawman yet that one.

I clearly said Pedri did not play well within the game and didnt like way team was set up... and yes primarily dont like Busi as lone DM.

It's called a midfield trio in 4-3-3 for a reason. If the 3 are extremely isolated, the manager is doing a piss poor job.

 

[vegitot]

Since when De Jong and Pedri play the same role??? Look like to serghei every CM play the same role.

 

[JamDav1982]

It's called a midfield trio in 4-3-3 for a reason. If the 3 are extremely isolated, the manager is doing a piss poor job.

Dont talk shit.

Formations are fluid and very different roles between the three mids.

Saying 'midfield trio' means absolutely nothing.

 

[JamDav1982]

Since when De Jong and Pedri play the same role??? Look like to serghei every CM play the same role.

FDJ and Pedri dont play even remotely same role and just made up what 'Koeman football' is to suit that idea.