8 - Pedri

[BusiTheKing]

Dont agree with that and think he is better in the tighter areas than open game.

Yes he is better in tight areas than open spaces. But that has nothing to do with my statement.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

:10 - could've lobbed over defender to Lewa but instead back passes while dribbling forward
:16 - good play to prevent a tackle*
:37 - good Busi-esque pass*
:55 - under pressure in oppo box but easy assist attempt, his only attempt all match, to Busi

*why we never see this calm yet defense breaking type passes in the final third

 

[BBZ8800]

:10 - could've lobbed over defender to Lewa but instead back passes while dribbling forward
:16 - good play to prevent a tackle*
:37 - good Busi-esque pass*
:55 - under pressure in oppo box but easy assist attempt, his only attempt all match, to Busi

*why we never see this calm yet defense breaking type passes in the final third

The same as with Arthur, you can see on these new generation of players that they grew up watching Barca 2008-2012.
In that era, Xavi type of midfielders, who's main goal is to recycle possession (I know, Xavi was more than that, but you get the point) emerged and started to be the most hailed type of midfielders.
Before Barca 2009', midfielders were usually CAM's like Totti, Kaka and classical no 10.
While other midfielders were destroyers or box to box. Midfielders like Xavi more or less didn't exist or had a place in formations in those days.
But with us, a new type of midfielders = who are not too good at defending and who don't shoot too much (again, I know, Xavi was scoring, but you get the general point of that era) emerged to fame.

And then these kids who were 5 or 10 back then (in 2010), turned into a full retard mode and started to train only possession, triangles, pig in the middle and neglected other parts like risky passes, shooting, defending.
Pedri is way better than Arthur, but you can see a lot of similarities in their play. It is obvious that they grew up when Xavi was the most popular midfielder.

The same as with Arthur, I am not sure whether there is a cure for that when Pedri's main natural instinct every time is: don't lose the ball.
Too often in this video, he is not even looking what is happening around him (in the opponent's third), he is just getting the ball, passing it back as if the final third doesn't exist.

That is Barca's curse. We are locked with this type of midfielders, who are a bad/wrong copy of Xavi's traits.
While other big teams like Real, City, Bayern moved to midfielders who are as equally as technical as our players but also they are stronger, more athletic and they can usually also defend and/or score.

And then when we buy different type of players like Raki, Frenkie, Kessie, they don't fit because they can't play Barca's way.
Yet those who can play Barca's way are a horribly flawed copies of 2009's football and they get eaten alive by top clubs in 2022'.

I seriously don't see how our club will go out of this catch 22/rabbit hole ever.
Copies of Pep's football have developed horribly wrong. And whenever we try something new, it ends even worse.

So I guess that this football with Pedris, Gavis, Pablo Torre is our future.
Good enough against Elche, not good enough even for Europa league level.

 

[Bobo32]

Musiala wasn't particularly good in yesterday's games either. And as always it is easier to look good in teams who transition fast and play vertical. Look at someone like Bellingham who has something ridiculous like sub 70% pass success but in a team that is built to sell young talents and plays for it.

Pedri definitely lacks the natural physical assets of these two and it shows when he is peripheral to the match. Hell, he even lacks the physical assets of Balde which helped him hold his own against the Bayern team.

Back to Pedri, his big problem is not talent but that he is not "inside" the game, but drifts in and out. Xavi needs to decide if he wants Pedri to be the centre of the midfield or still go with Busquets. It's the same with Gavi, he is not influential enough in the game. But when the coach trusts him to be so, he is great.

Any young player will be inconsistent, but the whole picture is that we are more often than not not trusting the young players in important roles enough.

I think Pedri has been given extreme trust, both in Barcelona and in the national team.
I fail to see any tweaks to his game, sometimes you see young players develop their habits and styles a bit, and I think Pedri was a player in big need of tweaking, but he plays the same way, or even more comfortably with time. My qualms about him is mainly his movement being too rounded and undynamic - he jogs in the same tempo in circles like a player in the lower divisions does, and his decision making being too predictable and safe (probably due to him not seeing enough to be fair).

There were a few occasions yesterday where he was very lazy and tried to receive without looking behind his shoulder only to be dispossessed, and many many occasions as in any game where he plays extremely safely and predictably in a very slow tempo. Sometimes sometimes he switches tempo, but he plays like he knows his place in the team is so safe that he doesn't ever need to make anything happen.

 

[Bobo32]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

Pedri is at heart a player of Tottis kind more than Xavis. He isn't fit to make 100 good decisions per game, slowly improving the position. When he tries to play like that he sees too little and plays too slowly. Arthur was much better for that kind of play. Pedri is a sort of genius with very good technique, who sometimes spots great solutions.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

He should be the one to take Busi's spot, would be his best position assuming DNA re-implemented after Xavi's firing. Sure he'd concede a goal once in awhile like Busi but who cares if we go back to scoring 3 or more against non-fodder teams.

 

[NKMaribor]

Only watched him properly this season and I don't see how he's good in final third based on that time span?


That's not even up for debate. He's much better in dealing with tighter spaces. That's his biggest strength.

Pedro "Good in tight spaces" Gonzalez.

Scores less than CB`s, assists once in a month. Does not control tempo. Defensively weak. It is clear why Madrid looked away.

 

[te amo barca]

I still have no doubts that Pedri will become WC. We are expecting too much from kids like him and Gavi to lead Barca. Xavi and Iniesta were not doing that for a long time.

 

[ZenI]

I still have no doubts that Pedri will become WC. We are expecting too much from kids like him and Gavi to lead Barca. Xavi and Iniesta were not doing that for a long time.

Yeah about that... you can't compare Xavi or Inesta to Pedri - you can't compare anybody to Iniesta really.

 

[Porque]

I think Pedri has been given extreme trust, both in Barcelona and in the national team.
I fail to see any tweaks to his game, sometimes you see young players develop their habits and styles a bit, and I think Pedri was a player in big need of tweaking, but he plays the same way, or even more comfortably with time. My qualms about him is mainly his movement being too rounded and undynamic - he jogs in the same tempo in circles like a player in the lower divisions does, and his decision making being too predictable and safe (probably due to him not seeing enough to be fair).

There were a few occasions yesterday where he was very lazy and tried to receive without looking behind his shoulder only to be dispossessed, and many many occasions as in any game where he plays extremely safely and predictably in a very slow tempo. Sometimes sometimes he switches tempo, but he plays like he knows his place in the team is so safe that he doesn't ever need to make anything happen.

That's fair. I think to start with that it was a mistake to play Pedri where he was. Against a superior physical side you are severely limited what he can acheive. Going back a few years now, the Spanish coach in the U17 World Cup decided to put Pedri on the right wing against France because he is an all purpose player. He played a very bad game because his movement patterns are limited against superior physical players. The best player on the pitch was Agouame (who we wanted to sign before he chose Inter). Now fast forward a few years and look where both players are.

The point is we all know Pedri has poor acceleration, decent top speed, and will cover the most metres in the match, while being a very sound passer. So we really need to trust that and push that. I don't think we are taking advantage of many of his skills having him receive the position to solve situations advanced in midfield, putting him on the left wing against a team like Bayern where Raphinha or Ferran will offer more on both the offensive and defensive end.

So he definitely also stalls too much in possession and doesn't initiate the progressive pass quick enough, and in part that is also because in over a year we haven't developed a system to overload and create from the centre. We're not even working opportunities through the wings, it is mainly the wingers having to create for themselves unsupported.

Lastly, yeah, I see more trust in the national team for he and Gavi which I alluded to. And althugh its generally a lower level game, they both look much more comfortable dictating play, and that is playing with Busquets too who is tasked with a much more supporting role and hardly overlaps the central midfielders.

 

[Bobo32]

That's fair. I think to start with that it was a mistake to play Pedri where he was. Against a superior physical side you are severely limited what he can acheive. Going back a few years now, the Spanish coach in the U17 World Cup decided to put Pedri on the right wing against France because he is an all purpose player. He played a very bad game because his movement patterns are limited against superior physical players. The best player on the pitch was Agouame (who we wanted to sign before he chose Inter). Now fast forward a few years and look where both players are.

The point is we all know Pedri has poor acceleration, decent top speed, and will cover the most metres in the match, while being a very sound passer. So we really need to trust that and push that. I don't think we are taking advantage of many of his skills having him receive the position to solve situations advanced in midfield, putting him on the left wing against a team like Bayern where Raphinha or Ferran will offer more on both the offensive and defensive end.

So he definitely also stalls too much in possession and doesn't initiate the progressive pass quick enough, and in part that is also because in over a year we haven't developed a system to overload and create from the centre. We're not even working opportunities through the wings, it is mainly the wingers having to create for themselves unsupported.

Lastly, yeah, I see more trust in the national team for he and Gavi which I alluded to. And althugh its generally a lower level game, they both look much more comfortable dictating play, and that is playing with Busquets too who is tasked with a much more supporting role and hardly overlaps the central midfielders.

Yeah it's a lot about the tactics, and small instructions to specific players. Barcelona doesn't work, the players are isolated and make each others worse, their strengths masked and their weaknesses magnified, because nothing holds together correctly. As you say, it works better with the same players in the national team. Maybe someone like Ancelotti or Valverde might actually be the best choice for Barcelona right now, the players are obviously talented enough to play much better than they do.

I was very positive about Xavi, but he has shown himself to be a bit similar to Koeman - stubborn, small-minded, depressing etc, his ideas seem simple and stupid and either way they do not work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f37lC0CSXlQ

Beligerent ghouls
run Manchester schools
Spineless swines
Cemented minds

 

[ajnotkeith]

I am beginning to get very disenchanted with him.
Just weak on all fronts. I am against the idea 9f playing both Pedri and Gavi together in a Cl game.
We should have bigger, more experienced players in midfield, not two small kids.

It's a shame to see that 'body transformation' he did in off-season was probably just a pump and good lighting. Doesn't look a single bit stronger than he ever was.

Barca conditioning propaganda strikes again, we always hear every off-season about how the players are stronger or fitter and it never translates on the pitch.

 

[Bobo32]

It's a shame to see that 'body transformation' he did in off-season was probably just a pump and good lighting. Doesn't look a single bit stronger than he ever was.

Barca conditioning propaganda strikes again, we always hear every off-season about how the players are stronger or fitter and it never translates on the pitch.

He was seemingly very proud of his curls for the gurls-regime, but I wonder how much it translates on the pitch (no I do not wonder).

 

[BBZ8800]

Lastly, yeah, I see more trust in the national team for he and Gavi which I alluded to. And althugh its generally a lower level game, they both look much more comfortable dictating play, and that is playing with Busquets too who is tasked with a much more supporting role and hardly overlaps the central midfielders.

Imo, a huge part of these two playing better in the national team is:

1. they are not midfield leaders, they need "someone else" to lead and they are second-wheel type of players. At Barca they are supposed to be the leaders and they are not good enough for that, yet in Spain they are a second wheel
2. Spain has a huge advantage over other NT teams because majority of players play in a few Spanish teams, they have a chemistry from their clubs plus Spain historically plays more or less style for years, so it is easy to "jump in" and click.
With Netherlands, France or Croatia, it is way different. Players play over the Europe in 20 different clubs, they aren't teammates, each of them comes from a different system and it is way harder to find a rhythm and click as a team.
3. also, NT players don't train together for too long. They see eachother for 7-10 days and then they go back to their clubs. Not too much chemistry, patterns, trainings.
And lots of teams play without 100% motivation in qualifiers.
On WCs, though, big teams are usually dead tired since their players played 50 matches per season, and then younger players can shine in those circumstances, and especially if those young players come from a country like Spain, who is a well oiled machine and they have an advantage in terms of chemistry over majority of other teams.

All in all, a level of NT football is quite poor, way below CL level.
It is not a coincidence that often players who shine on a World cup or Euros = play like a crap in a club football after the expensive transfer.
Why? Well, top players were tired, top teams lack chemistry, and often younger, hungrier and fresher players can shine on those tournaments.

So, I personally wouldn't build my hopes on Pedri (and his future at Barcelona) based on NT performances.

Never forget that Ferran Torres played like Messi vs Germany and scored a hattrick.

 

[Zidane82]

He is just like Isco, maybe a little fitter and a little less technically gifted. Nothing like Iniesta, end product is missing.

He is a baby !!

You think that Iniesta and Xavi were dominating games at this age ??