9 - Luis Suárez - v1

[jj_101]

Yes, we all hate Suarez in here, just like we all hate Neymar.

Another one for whom the crowd's opinion is worth nothing against his own.

Keep at it mate, I'm out

I never said you hate anyone. You just like Messi more. Just look at your avatar and the fact that you used to call yourself Mehssi.
I don't blame you for liking Messi more. And I'm not saying that Messi hasn't been the face of Barca for the past 10 years. All I'm saying is that this season Suarez has been better. That's all. And you just can't let me have my opinion based on facts.

 

[Vlom]

Oh you can have your OPINION, just don't make it a FACT, because it isn't

It's just an opinion, like mine, like other member's, like all the people that voted all along the season in the MotM thread ...

I'm just the more noisy one when it comes to Messi, but a LOT of other members agree, if only by their votes, after every game, again, and again, and again ... MESSI, MESSI, MESSIIIIII !!

 

[Jamie Cal]

As I said, this is the same argument people use for CR7, he scores 12 against Espanyol and he's the king of the world, you're using the same logic.

Your logic suits your argument, and that's fine, but the MotM is the perfect reflection of people's opinions taken at the right moment, just after the game, for who was the most instrumental in the win, not who scored more or had more shots.



There's an argument for that, forwards tends to be more "visible" especially in Lucho's system so they get more votes.

But that doesn't affect Suarez or Neymar in this case.

Definitely. The team's centered on getting the most out of those 3 and often are left to their devices to do it by themselves, like Bayern second leg.

 

[jj_101]

As I said, this is the same argument people use for CR7, he scores 12 against Espanyol and he's the king of the world, you're using the same logic.

... so Messi never has any games where he pads his stats? He scores one and then stops scoring?
Taking away the number of goals scored in a game, Messi has scored in 28 games this season, Suarez has scored in 32 games this season.
How is 28>32? Is it like the golden boot? When Messi scores in a game it's worth twice as much?
Suarez has outscored Messi in every competition this year. He has scored important goals that have won Barca trophies. He has scored in more games and outperformed Messi in every meaningful statistic and your argument is a popularity contest. Fine. At least concede that this has been a below average season for Messi. Or can't you even admit that?

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Goals, assists, shots taken, and other statistics are FACTS, not opinions.
The opinions should be derived from the factual statistics, but people let their biases affect their opinions.

There's a prevailing opinion here that Suarez has missed countless sitters, and gives the ball away easily,

Please, go make a compilation video of his missed sitters, literal tap ins, he has missed dozens of them, dozens.

 

[Vlom]

Of course it has been a below his goat-average season for Messi, I'm not saying otherwise, and I'm not saying Suarez hasn't had a great season either.

But you're bringing everything down to shots taken and goals, and that's just wrong, Messi have been the game changer in so many games without getting the stats to show for it, hell, Messi is even offering his penalties to Suarez now to help him get the Golden boot ... and you're using that against him basically

Just look at the Sporting game for example, Suarez gets 4 goals, yet, it's Messi who took charge and made us win the game, the goals would have never happened if it wasn't for him stepping up, this is the kind of things that the MotM thread reflects, not freaking emotions or popularity contest, but a judgement of performances, game by game, leaving the cold stats aside.

 

[bismp]

... so Messi never has any games where he pads his stats? He scores one and then stops scoring?

well...yes


Do you even watch the games?Suarez misses a ton of sitters.They may have a similar conversion rate,but Messi has many missed shots by distance etc.

Because,guess what?Suarez has messi feeding him right in front of the goal,while messi has to make almost everything by his own.Even the assists he gets usually originate by some killer through pass to alba for example.

Finally,you conviently ignore that Messi is the sole reliable playmaker in this team

If you can't accept these three arguments,then maybe we are watching different games

 

[gasgas]

So the argumenmessie is fact vs opinion.
I go for the former.
cr7 @ll have preferences.
For example In dribbling. I prefer Neymar (on form) to Messi watch highlights in the 2_1 loss to sevilla ,. Because it's more aesthetic.
This is subjective.
Stats give you a clear and unbiased portrayal on who is more effective

People here tend to overexaggerate Sitters by suarez and neymar while downplay those by messi because of all he's done for the club. He is a club legend, he can be excused

Motm is also subjective.
Fan favourites have an edge than fan polarizing players
It makes sense.
Say neymar, messi and say douglas have an equally good game
Messi will be first, ney second, douglas third or even Out of top 3.
There are times messi ini are in the top 3 and it doesnt make sense at all to some commenters


Thats why we use stats to counter bias and emotion.
Vlom said messi shoots more from range than suarez. There's a stat for that.
We can compare their conversion inside and outside the box.
We can compare position of shots taken,

Stats favor cr7?
Noo
He has a poorer conversion in and out the box
But he attempts, and that may be a good thing if you cant create chances

statistically messi creates more chances dribbles passes than cr7.

 

[gasgas]

well...yes


Do you even watch the games?Suarez misses a ton of sitters.They may have a similar conversion rate,but Messi has many missed shots by distance etc.

Because,guess what?Suarez has messi feeding him right in front of the goal,while messi has to make almost everything by his own.Even the assists he gets usually originate by some killer through pass to alba for example.

Finally,you conviently ignore that Messi is the sole reliable playmaker in this team

If you can't accept these three arguments,then maybe we are watching different games

You see, subjective opinions will always lead to the ever common question 'what game did you watch?'
But stats like
Messi converted 1/5 chances in the penalty area
Suarez 2/6 wont

Or may be pique got dribbled past 4/7 times while masch 2/5 times.
What can you add?
That pique was stuck marking three players?
Over large sample sizes, these anomalies will balance each other out

 

[Vlom]

Hein?

You're confusing everything and his opposite in there, this is not really about cr7.

And LOL no people do not exagerate missed sitters for Suarez and Neymar, they've missed a gazillion more than Messi, just watch last game's highlight or the compilation of Messi through balls in his threads.

 

[gasgas]

Hein?

You're confusing everything and his opposite in there, this is not really about cr7.

And LOL no people do not exagerate missed sitters for Suarez and Neymar, they've missed a gazillion more than Messi, just watch last game's highlight or the compilation of Messi through balls in his threads.

Please note that im explaining my stance btn "fact and opinion"
Cr7, suarez etc are examples

There's where the bias.
You take a video containing only Messi's passes to ney and suarez.
You being a messi fan, you get mad that his creative passes go to waste.
Have you however tried viewing chances created by the team for messi that Messi missed?
How can you compare two sides using one video.
And I think a sufficient sample size would be a season or two instead of the last two matches, because form is likely to be a confounder over a small sample size

 

[Vlom]

Yeah right, the team "creates" shitloads for Messi to miss ... give me a break

Let me sum this up like this, Suarez is having an amazing season, but to me at least, he's 3rd best performer for us this season after Messi and Neymar.

Suarez has been consistently great while the entire team was great, but when things got difficult and it could all have gone south, it was first Neymar that stepped up with stellar displays to maintain us and even put us ahead in LaLiga and won us the UCL games we had at that time, and from January upward it was Messi that saved us game after game after game when we were scrapping through 2-1 wins, and it still reflects in our last LaLiga games to this day, if Messi doesn't step up, we're just 11 lost souls on the field.

Suarez this season, and it sounds weird with the crazy amount of goals he's having, never took matters into his own hand I feel, he was horrible in many games and still bagged up goals so I'm not judging him on that, but on his "performances" ... the thing you guys are trying to completely ignore to the benefit of the stats, and that's where I say this argument is the same shitty one used by CR7 fanboys ... cause up until 2 games ago, by your logic (cold stats), CR7 was having the best season of them all, and we all know that's not true.

 

[Alarcón]

Neymar 2nd best player... nice joke.

 

[gasgas]

Yeah right, the team "creates" shitloads for Messi to miss ... give me a break

Let me sum this up like this, Suarez is having an amazing season, but to me at least, he's 3rd best performer for us this season after Messi and Neymar.

Suarez has been consistently great while the entire team was great, but when things got difficult and it could all have gone south, it was first Neymar that stepped up with stellar displays to maintain us and even put us ahead in LaLiga and won us the UCL games we had at that time, and from January upward it was Messi that saved us game after game after game when we were scrapping through 2-1 wins, and it still reflects in our last LaLiga games to this day, if Messi doesn't step up, we're just 11 lost souls on the field.

Suarez this season, and it sounds weird with the crazy amount of goals he's having, never took matters into his own hand I feel, he was horrible in many games and still bagged up goals so I'm not judging him on that, but on his "performances" ... the thing you guys are trying to completely ignore to the benefit of the stats, and that's where I say this argument is the same shitty one used by CR7 fanboys ... cause up until 2 games ago, by your logic (cold stats), CR7 was having the best season of them all, and we all know that's not true.

You know what, an equally lol worthy statement would be.
Messi creates all his chances, nodody creates for him.
Look at his highlights and you will find a staggering number of tapins, many of them served by suarez.
Unless you're suggesting that messi scores only from multiple dribbles starting from midfield


What you wrote there is opinion which anyone can have.
It's good to have opinion.
I have mine too.
For opinion to be a fact it must be backed by stats

 

[Vlom]

Neymar 2nd best player... nice joke.

Haha .. I know right ! Sounds weird coming from me after all the shit I got in his thread for being a Neyhater

But to me, he is because during a couple months he was the only reason we were winning, same as Messi since January (bar a few games), I value that and so does the rest of the forum (Cf the MotM thread !!).

It's easy to bang in goals when you have an in form Neymar or Messi serving you left and right, but I remember more great individual performances from Suarez last season than this one to be honest.