Alexis Sanchez

Mr Hulot

New member
I understand your opinion, but I don't agree with it. Alexis' tap-ins doesn't make him a better player than Pedro, nor Fabregas' goals make him a better forward than David Villa. Anyway I personally don't value stats at all, because I think they are misleading and they bring a very cynical way to look this very complex and beautiful game.
 

Stric

New member
I understand your opinion, but I don't agree with it. Alexis' tap-ins doesn't make him a better player than Pedro, nor Fabregas' goals make him a better forward than David Villa. Anyway I personally don't value stats at all, because I think they are misleading and they bring a very cynical way to look this very complex and beautiful game.

I agree. I'm just saying, though, that stats are somewhat less misleading (but still misleading, I agree) if we're talking about forwards. Not to the extent that if a particular forward has less goals than another, it makes him inferior (or anything like that), but in the sense that, if you're a forward and you don't score at all, that stat is not misleading, because you're not a good forward if you don't score. With midfielders it's different, because the two basic stats, goals and assists, don't reflect their performance as much as they do with forwards.
 

Galning

Moderator
Stats have no place in a football discussion in my opinion. For example Thiago has 0 goals and 0 assist in the current U-21 tournament, but he is also, if not the best, the second best performer of the team. If you only care about goals and assists you should only watch the highlights and not the full games...

Agree!
 

archimidis

New member
Stats have no place in a football discussion in my opinion. For example Thiago has 0 goals and 0 assist in the current U-21 tournament, but he is also, if not the best, the second best performer of the team. If you only care about goals and assists you should only watch the highlights and not the full games...

True, but don't you think that Thiagho's position in Spain U21 will not probably be with many goals and assists? On the contrary if one will compares strikers for example, goals will show something or give insights in general. Stats are part of football discussions, but shouldn't be the only point of discussion.
 

Butaan4barca

New member
Stats have no place in a football discussion in my opinion. For example Thiago has 0 goals and 0 assist in the current U-21 tournament, but he is also, if not the best, the second best performer of the team. If you only care about goals and assists you should only watch the highlights and not the full games...

Disagreed. Stats has everything to do with football and discussion. But stats aren't just about goals and assists.
1. total passes
2.% passes completed
3.Movements,with directions
4.no of passes leading to a goal assits
5. KM ran
Are all stats very much important in judging a midfielder's performance
 

Darko

New member
and all those stats can be worthless
1. total passes and % passes completed-a 100+ passes with 95+ completion rate are worthless if they result in nothing(as seen many times in Barca games this season,especially in the two games against Bayern)
2.movements,with directions-you talking about all the movement from one player in a game,because I doubt I have ever seen that or that it can even be displayed,there would be like a million lines showing a players movement and therefore very messy and unreadable
3.no of passes leading to a goal assist-I dot really get what you are trying to say here?
4.KM ran-players can run a lot and for nothing,but others can run less and do 10 times more with the amounts of KM they ran(all down to clever positioning,anticipation etc)
for example I would say Pedro runs a lot more than Busquets but steals the ball a lot less and his defensive contribution is a lot less significant(of course Pedro is on the wing and that makes a big difference but just trying to show you what I meant)
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
and all those stats can be worthless
1. total passes and % passes completed-a 100+ passes with 95+ completion rate are worthless if they result in nothing(as seen many times in Barca games this season,especially in the two games against Bayern)
2.movements,with directions-you talking about all the movement from one player in a game,because I doubt I have ever seen that or that it can even be displayed,there would be like a million lines showing a players movement and therefore very messy and unreadable
3.no of passes leading to a goal assist-I dot really get what you are trying to say here?
4.KM ran-players can run a lot and for nothing,but others can run less and do 10 times more with the amounts of KM they ran(all down to clever positioning,anticipation etc)
for example I would say Pedro runs a lot more than Busquets but steals the ball a lot less and his defensive contribution is a lot less significant(of course Pedro is on the wing and that makes a big difference but just trying to show you what I meant)

Stats do matter it depends on the player and what stats are relevant.

Virtually all of the top players strengths are shown through their stats over the course of a season or two.
 

Galning

Moderator
Since now. 10 years ago people didn't care about most of these stats. Like heat-maps were players ran throughout the game etc..
 

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
Since now. 10 years ago people didn't care about most of these stats. Like heat-maps were players ran throughout the game etc..
They didn't care because they didn't have any opportunities to analyse the game these ways! And now, when they are able to look at stats it makes coach's job much easier.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Since now. 10 years ago people didn't care about most of these stats. Like heat-maps were players ran throughout the game etc..

The clubs care and stats do tell a lot although not the full story.

All the top clubs employ teams of people to go through stats - they are important.
 

Butaan4barca

New member
and all those stats can be worthless
1. total passes and % passes completed-a 100+ passes with 95+ completion rate are worthless if they result in nothing(as seen many times in Barca games this season,especially in the two games against Bayern)
2.movements,with directions-you talking about all the movement from one player in a game,because I doubt I have ever seen that or that it can even be displayed,there would be like a million lines showing a players movement and therefore very messy and unreadable
3.no of passes leading to a goal assist-I dot really get what you are trying to say here?
4.KM ran-players can run a lot and for nothing,but others can run less and do 10 times more with the amounts of KM they ran(all down to clever positioning,anticipation etc)
for example I would say Pedro runs a lot more than Busquets but steals the ball a lot less and his defensive contribution is a lot less significant(of course Pedro is on the wing and that makes a big difference but just trying to show you what I meant)

they can be very useful, and it totally depends what information you are digging out of them. All what you wrote was based on assumption that 'stats can be useless'-quoting such examples.
1. it does shows a player's ability to pass. (further breakdown can show 5 % of those were long passes with 50% of completion rate, you certainly know, this player can't put up a long pass. e.g)
2. Movements maps are very useful, as you can analysis if a player is moving into right places to recieve a pass (for example)
3. That could show if a player has a vision to create effective plays,(making a great through ball for a player, who made the assit)- this he the player actually put another player in great position to make an assist. (wonder why sergi busquets is so important ?) he is the one who make intelligent passes, analysis the situations and starting the attack from behind.
4. (again, it can, but this is a great example you quoted yourself. The stats can exactly show such information-useful to me, if i can know, who is running useless and who is making effective runs)

In pedro vs busquets example you are comparing oranges with apples.
 

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