Alexis Sanchez

[eye-switcher]

The thing is, what I believe you, and numerous others in here, refuse to realize, is the fact that very few players would look good when put in the situation that Alexis has been over the past years. His natural play style has been stifled so badly it should be punished as a crime, and still it seems like he has started to adapt reasonably well.

And no, I'm not surprised you can't name anyone who'd do better under the circumstances that Alexis was put in. Just about any single world class player I can think of would be hampered by those tactics. And yeah, hopefully Lucho will think out of the box in regards to this problem - that we can agree on.

Fully and totally agree, must be like playing with shackles, still he performs way better than thoose who critisise him gives him credit for. I almost want him to leave for his own sake, cant be much fun playing within the restrctions Barca is giving him.

 

[BBZ8800]

So we bascially have 4 players that require a free role in order to flourish. Well that sucks. Messi, Don, Nerman and Alexis

Exactly.

Messi is the Goat, you have to give him a space and a free role.
Neymar seems to have higher potential than Alexis and he could be a leader one day, so we will probably need to somehow give him a free role too.
Iniesta, the same story.
Alexis, he would also play better with a different role, but again, he will never get a free role as long we have "better players/players who could give even more than him if they play in a free role".

So, that will never happen.
In Barca, it will be:
a) Alexis, you are a winger
b) or you can go somewhere else

Barca will never build a team around Alexis and Barca will never suit a formation to fit their 4th pick as a free-role-player.

 

[Trickykid]

Exactly.

Messi is the Goat, you have to give him a space and a free role.
Neymar seems to have higher potential than Alexis and he could be a leader one day, so we will probably need to somehow give him a free role too.
Iniesta, the same story.
Alexis, he would also play better with a different role, but again, he will never get a free role as long we have "better players/players who could give even more than him if they play in a free role".

So, that will never happen.
In Barca, it will be:
a) Alexis, you are a winger
b) or you can go somewhere else

Barca will never build a team around Alexis and Barca will never suit a formation to fit their 4th pick as a free-role-player.

Right, if we shouldn't try to accomodate Alexis at all, who's your suggestion for a better RW who'd be content with never being allowed to leave the flank, and still produce heaps of goals and assists?

 

[Butaan4barca]

Exactly.

Messi is the Goat, you have to give him a space and a free role.
Neymar seems to have higher potential than Alexis and he could be a leader one day, so we will probably need to somehow give him a free role too.
Iniesta, the same story.
Alexis, he would also play better with a different role, but again, he will never get a free role as long we have "better players/players who could give even more than him if they play in a free role".

So, that will never happen.
In Barca, it will be:
a) Alexis, you are a winger
b) or you can go somewhere else

Barca will never build a team around Alexis and Barca will never suit a formation to fit their 4th pick as a free-role-player.

No actually i think messi, neymar, alexis, and iniesta can all have free roles if you have a midfield with players like busquets, koke, and rakitic.

but definitely not with xavi and fabregas


With players like cuadrado, who is going to start at rb, can take the role of sticking on the right line and keeping the opposite defense stretched.
With pique/bartra or marquinos, staying wide and busquest filling in between them,

rakitic and koke are both high contributors in both defense and attack statistically and hence can be used as high energy midfield covers, covering box to box and balancing between attack and defense.

Actually to me the overall signing targets are making some sense.

1. our attack with be free roaming and more unpredictable
2. we will have a real attacking rb, like old days providing some crosses
3. high pressing upfront
4. a speedy defender (marquinhos), which was a missing characteristic in our profile
5. Real time box to box hard midfield, which has been a strange tradition in all teams, and very much effective way of playing modern football
6. we still keep that tiki taka awsomeness
arty1:

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

There is no problem having several players who take free roles and do not stick to single positions.
But it is very difficult to develop a defense system with this approach.

Leo, Iniesta, Ney and Alexis crowding the middle or overloading a wing e.g. is fine but when you lose the ball you have to have a solid defensive shape and a well working pressing system. Without that the midfield and backline are absolutely lost.

 

[serghei]

Right, if we shouldn't try to accomodate Alexis at all, who's your suggestion for a better RW who'd be content with never being allowed to leave the flank, and still produce heaps of goals and assists?

There is no winger in the world right now who could play in such a contrived role and have Alexis' assists and goals, or his overall performances. He scored that much not because he was used right by Martino, but because he pulled 4 or 5 wonder strikes out of nowhere. If we keep him and tweak the system to suit our players more (not just Alexis, Neymar also), we'll have a dinamite attack next season. Only Zubi can fuck this up.

Neymar, Messi, Pedro, Alexis, Deulofeu. Why the hell would a sane person change anything about that offensive arsenal? That's the best in the world by quite a margin. Put in one great midfielder behind these 5, take care of our defence, and we can have an amazing season.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

I don't agree that Neymar needs a free role. He seems to be doing very well at using up the left wing, understanding when to flank or cut inside. He looks very comfortable there and made it his own already, whereas Alexis looks frustrated most times glued to the RW and suffers creativity/confidence wise.

 

[Sumlit]

Barca don't have players with free roles. Free roles are for teams who need one player to perform a myriad of roles because they are lacking in quality in certain areas. Messi has a free role in Argentina because they need his creative talents from midfield as well as his scoring prowess. Alexis has a free role with Chile because that team is seriously lacking in creativity and need Alexis to supply it.
Neymar for me, does not have a free role with Brazil. He does have freedom, true enough, but his role is clearly defined as a left wing attacking midfield/left winger type for in their 4-2-3-1.

Barca don't need free role players because they have very good players for every single role. Instead, they need the players they have to be very good at the role they are assigned. Now, not having a free role does not mean you cannot find a way through game-planning, style and formations, to get the players more freedom to play with and to get them more involved.

Alexis is never going to have a free role in Barca. They just will always have too many great players in with clear roles, they just don't need one player without a role to move around doing everything. Again though, this does not mean the coaches cannot do a better job of finding the players more freedom and getting them more involved.

 

[BBZ8800]

Right, if we shouldn't try to accomodate Alexis at all, who's your suggestion for a better RW who'd be content with never being allowed to leave the flank, and still produce heaps of goals and assists?

If I am not mistaken, Alexis plays awesome when either Messi or Neymar are injured or off the field.
So, most of his Goals come in matches where he is not our 3rd attacking choice (behind Messi and Ney), but when he is our 2nd key man in the attack.
Or, in matches when we win 6:0 or similar.

Whenever are all our players fit, and when he is playing alongside Messi and Ney, our players usually pass the ball more to Ney and Messi in Goalscoring chances, so he is a 3rd option, let's say it in that way.

Whenever he is the 3rd option, he plays not so good. He trips over the ball or just passes the ball to Messi all the time.

He is just average against stronger opponents when Messi, Ney and Iniesta are all on field.
(People will now say: what about his wondergoals against Real and Atletico..) Those were good, but too rare in bigger matches.

Imo, there are other other players who could play better and more consistent as a 3rd wheel in our attack, alongside stars Messi and Ney.

In shorter, Alexis is hiding on the field, tripping over the ball and just passing to Messi when he plays with Messi and Ney.
When one of them is gone, he is much better, more confident and scores more.

But again, since our team is built around Messi and Ney, and if we assume that they won't get injured, then we will usually see that weaker side of Alexis, when he is poor with those 2 on the field.

Again, guys who will reply now: "He scored 21 goals", please go and count how many of those Goals were with Mess-Ney-Alexis on the field.
And how many of those were not against weaker La Liga teams in 5:0 and in similar trashing.

In other words, how often he scores, assists and play well in bigger matches, with Messi, Ney and Iniesta on the field?

 

[Trickykid]

If I am not mistaken, Alexis plays awesome when either Messi or Neymar are injured or off the field.
So, most of his Goals come in matches where he is not our 3rd attacking choice (behind Messi and Ney), but when he is our 2nd key man in the attack.
Or, in matches when we win 6:0 or similar.

Whenever are all our players fit, and when he is playing alongside Messi and Ney, our players usually pass the ball more to Ney and Messi in Goalscoring chances, so he is a 3rd option, let's say it in that way.

Whenever he is the 3rd option, he plays not so good. He trips over the ball or just passes the ball to Messi all the time.

He is just average against stronger opponents when Messi, Ney and Iniesta are all on field.
(People will now say: what about his wondergoals against Real and Atletico..) Those were good, but too rare in bigger matches.

Imo, there are other other players who could play better and more consistent as a 3rd wheel in our attack, alongside stars Messi and Ney.

In shorter, Alexis is hiding on the field, tripping over the ball and just passing to Messi when he plays with Messi and Ney.
When one of them is gone, he is much better, more confident and scores more.

But again, since our team is built around Messi and Ney, and if we assume that they won't get injured, then we will usually see that weaker side of Alexis, when he is poor with those 2 on the field.

Again, guys who will reply now: he scored 21 goals, go and count how many of those Goals were with Mess-Ney-Alexis on the field.
And how many of them were not against weaker La Liga teams in 5:0 and similar trashing.

In other words, how often he scores, assists and play well in bigger matches, with Messi, Ney and Iniesta on the field?

That was the sole question I asked. Who?

 

[BBZ8800]

That was the sole question I asked. Who?

You are right, there aren't many of those.
I don't know, I would:
-- a) either bring "a 9" to play with Mess+Ney
-- "a 9" would be more consistent than the current Alexis, as a 3rd wheel
-- Aguero, Suarez=they are the best, but too expensive
-- from other guys, maybe Higuain
-- b) from wingers, imo, Reus would be better even on the right than the current Alexis
-- I think that Reus wouldn't be so "quiet" alongside Messi and Ney, and that he would have more "balls" than just to pass the ball to Messi all the time

So, there aren't too many better options, but there are a few.

 

[Trickykid]

You are right, there aren't many of those.
I don't know, I would:
-- a) either bring "a 9" to play with Mess+Ney
-- "a 9" would be more consistent than the current Alexis, as a 3rd wheel
-- Aguero, Suarez=they are the best, but too expensive
-- from other guys, maybe Higuain
-- b) from wingers, imo, Reus would be better even on the right than the current Alexis
-- I think that Reus wouldn't be so "quiet" alongside Messi and Ney, and that he would have more "balls" than just to pass the ball to Messi all the time

So, there aren't too many better options, but there are a few.

The whole 9 argument is void, as it would mean a change to our entire system, and thus have nothing to do with Alexis' qualities as a player. Whether Lucho'll actually try to accomodate a 9 remains to be seen.

Reus would laugh in our face, if he was told to play like Alexis is forced to. You'd tell him to play differently then? Sure, why not tell Alexis the same thing? Again, he's proved time and time again that he knows to play differently. This is all down to the coach and not the player himself.

 

[Sumlit]

The whole 9 argument is void, as it would mean a change to our entire system, and thus have nothing to do with Alexis' qualities as a player. Whether Lucho'll actually try to accomodate a 9 remains to be seen.

Reus would laugh in our face, if he was told to play like Alexis is forced to. You'd tell him to play differently then? Sure, why not tell Alexis the same thing? Again, he's proved time and time again that he knows to play differently. This is all down to the coach and not the player himself.

Sorry but the 9 argument is not void and would not require a change in style. Villa and Eto'o say hi. They would just need to be good and mobile, and capable of operation from wide areas as well as the middle.

Also, what is Alexis being forced to? Play like a pure left winger/left wing forward? The role wasn't the problem, the player is simply not suited for it. He is more creative than pure scorer, he'd do better in a deeper role with more space and more touches.

 

[Trickykid]

Sorry but the 9 argument is not void and would not require a change in style. Villa and Eto'o say hi. They would just need to be good and mobile, and capable of operation from wide areas as well as the middle.

Also, what is Alexis being forced to? Play like a pure left winger/left wing forward? The role wasn't the problem, the player is simply not suited for it. He is more creative than pure scorer, he'd do better in a deeper role with more space and more touches.

If off to bed, so I'll make it a quick one.

Villa was a shell of his old self in our system, and hardly produced better than Alexis' last season.

Eto'o never played with the remotely same width as our wingers have been asked to do over the past seasons.

So, yeah, hi Villa and Eto'o!

 

[Sumlit]

If off to bed, so I'll make it a quick one.

Villa was a shell of his old self in our system, and hardly produced better than Alexis' last season.

Eto'o never played with the remotely same width as our wingers have been asked to do over the past seasons.

So, yeah, hi Villa and Eto'o!

Villa was not a shell of his old self in Barca's system. His first season was very good, he just was no longer the first option like he was at Valencia. Eto'o was moved to the wing forward role when Pep had the vision to move Messi to the middle. The same position Alexis plays now. The team was better then, the system was better then, and opponents still gave them more space then, but it was the same role. Both Villa and Eto'o were plainly just better pure scorers than Alexis.