Andrés Iniesta

[jiopi]

Your highlight reels always seem to result in an end-product, but you should realise that for a lot of people there are many more moments from both players. And no, Messi is not underrated. He's not called best ever just because he scores so much, he's called that because he can do all those other things beside score an insane amount of goals.

Edit: Iniesta can definitely "pass like that" (as in your gif).

End-product? Only one of three were a goal, or did you mean something productive? Football is about end product though, goals wins you games. With goals only you can win games, with possession only you can't. Possession is easy, creativity is hard.

You can show me a perfectly weighted, on ground pass, against whole team, between four banks of player from Iniesta? Well actually you can't.

 

[footyfan]

You can show me a perfectly weighted, on ground pass, against whole team, between four banks of player from Iniesta? Well actually you can't.

Firstly, it's just 2 banks of four. Secondly, you want an exact copy of this kind of a pass with the exact same characteristics lol? I can't remember any like off the top of my head. The closest one is to Alexis vs Getafe a few weeks ago.

A few of his other assists are top class (like to Alves vs Malaga 08/09, Alves vs Shakhtar 10/11, Xavi vs Sporting 08/09, Pedro vs RM 10/11). These are just off-the-top of my head. And there surely are instances where there were great passes but they're not assists.

 

[loozy]

If by banks you mean rows, then I doubt that Messi ever did that, either.

There are instances, though, where Iniesta passes by players, like in the Levante-game where he set up Messi's goal like that.

@ jiopi
What is your problem with Iniesta exactly? Reading this, it seems as if you consider him one of the most overrated players on the team.

 

[PearLBLacK]

[video=vimeo;61807781]http://vimeo.com/61807781[/video]

here

Thanks, it's at minute 2:42. Now that I see it replayed, he did have more space than I thought I remembered. But still wonderful.

 

[jiopi]

If by banks you mean rows, then I doubt that Messi ever did that, either.

There are instances, though, where Iniesta passes by players, like in the Levante-game where he set up Messi's goal like that.

@ jiopi
What is your problem with Iniesta exactly? Reading this, it seems as if you consider him one of the most overrated players on the team.

Yeah rows, I just presented a pass like that. And for Messi passes like that are actually bread and butter:

There is clear quality difference in passing, show me a pass from Iniesta that has better quality than Messi could make?

I've no problems with Iniesta, only problems I've are with pointlessly hyping and/or dissing players, without clear and logical arguments. And you can actually see me always argue with logic or concrete evidence, about the points I try to make.

 

[loozy]

If I had the time and willingness to look for it, I'd find one of Iniesta, too, I bet.

No-one dissed Messi or pointlessly hyped Iniesta as far as I read. You are actually, in my eyes, trying to talk Iniesta down by constantly comparing him with Messi when that comparison does not make any sense whatsoever as they play in completely different positions and have completely different purposes on the pitch, logic/concrete evidence aside.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, meaning it is a subjective matter and while I consider Messi the GOAT due to his scoring skills, in the ability-area I will always prefer to watch Iniesta because of the elegant way that he plays.

 

[jiopi]

Great, one example of one pass that Messi played like that. If I had the time and willingness to look for it, I'd find one of Iniesta, too, I bet.

No-one dissed Messi or pointlessly hyped Iniesta. You are, in my eyes, trying to talk Iniesta down by constantly comparing him with Messi when that comparison does not make any sense whatsoever as they play in completely different positions and have completely different purposes on the pitch, logic/concrete evidence aside.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, meaning it is a subjective matter and while I consider Messi the GOAT due to his scoring skills, in the ability-area I will always prefer to watch Iniesta because of the elegant way that he plays.

The thing is I could post countless of passes like that from Messi,

how about outside foot between two rows?

I would like to see one from Iniesta.

If you read the post that started this, actually he did. And which I think I argued against pretty damn well and objectively.

 

[OrangeOpti]

Quite frankly, I don't believe Iniesta is overhyped at all. We could probably compare stats and Messi would win in most if not all areas. That's because he's the GOAT, Iniesta isn't. Iniesta is one of the best midfielders in the world because of his dribbling abilities, which open gaps in the defence which Messi can exploit.

 

[numero]

Iniesta and overhyped ?

 

[UEFA_Barça_Chris]

Iniesta and overhyped ?

That is why I didn't want to reply.

 

[loozy]

I would like to see one from Iniesta.

Why don't you watch the matches that you have and find one? You seem to have more time on your hands than I

That being said, there is no point imo to argue with you as you are set in your ways and cannot see beyond your Messi-horizon and that is fine. Just don't attempt to diminish Iniesta's influence, it makes you seem biased and does not reflect well on what you know about football.

That being said, I am going to be immature and have laugh at you labelling Iniesta overhyped

 

[jiopi]

Why don't you watch the matches that you have and find one? You seem to have more time on your hands than I

That being said, there is no point imo to argue with you as you are set in your ways and cannot see beyond your Messi-horizon and that is fine. Just don't attempt to diminish Iniesta's influence, it makes you seem biased and does not reflect well on what you know about football.

That being said, I am going to be immature and have laugh at you labelling Iniesta overhyped

Why would I try to prove myself wrong, when I actually know I'm right?

Yeah, I'm being biased with my backed up arguments.

 

[sabby]

Iniesta is not over-hyped. But one can argue that Messi is still not hyped enough for the player he is.

 

[Kerrybai]

Agree with FootyFan. Iniesta is by far the most enjoyable individual player for me. He's very similar to Zidane and Kaka in that regard, the way he runs, moves, and maneuvers with the ball reminds me of Zizou. Messi is definitely more effective, no argument there, but Iniesta for me is more enjoyable to watch. The problem is you can't measure aesthetics and "magical" play, you just know it when you see it.

And there's no way to measure this but he is one of the hardest to dispossess. So many times he works his way out of challenges and 2 or 3 players teaming up on him. And yes, so does Messi, but Messi does it with acceleration and quick directional changes. Iniesta does it with minimal space and without dribbling, but with accurate close control and "trickery." How many times he's at the byline and you think there's no way for him to beat the defender except pass back to a midfielder or the LB, and he does that sick Laudrup move, countless times.

There was this instance in the Milan game, I have no idea what minute but will surely be found in a "Iniesta vs Milan" compilation, where I think Messi passed to him near the halfline, and 3 Milan players immediately crowded Iniesta. I was sure they'd dispossess him but he controlled the ball with his left foot, sidestepped and held it with his right, then brought behind his left foot again before being fouled by KPB I think. Can't put it into words really, there's bound to be a clip or a gif anyways.

As much as I enjoy both players, for me personally Messi is more enjoyable to watch. His dribbling is above Iniesta for me and some of his touches make me drool. He's the reason I started watching Barca, in fact I had stopped watching football altogether until I discovered Messi. Of course it's all personal preference.

 

[Kerrybai]

So you're saying these stats are correlated, yet you used them as independent stats to create a "dribble vs dispossession ratio" (in addition completely ignoring that the dribble stats are not completely exhaustive of all the dribbling actions performed by a player; which infact can only be measured by actually watching the game).

I'm not actually disputing that Messi is better than Iniesta - but from what I've seen (and I've only missed < 7 games in the past 4 years) Iniesta is harder to dispossess than Messi.

You could be right but you have to consider that Messi is a forward so of course so he plays far more direct often running straight at centre backs etc. of course he will lose the ball more. Put Messi in midfield and Iniesta as a false 9 and the role will most likely reverse.