Andy Carroll

[dalitis8]

Rooney totally owns Shearer.

Far superior all around, and also keep in mind that Shearer played in a Premier League infinitely inferior to the current version.

It matters little what Shearer (when compared to Rooney) did in the 1990s, at that time, English teams were routinely beaten by Italian, Spanish, German, French and even Turkish teams.

 

[Metaphysical]

I'm sorry but that's just bollocks. You're making out like Alan Shearer was a glorified Darren Bent or something. Shearer's allround game was fantastic. People forget that earlier in his career at Southampton he played out wide and as a midfielder. Despite going through 4 major injuries he managed to re-invent his game and bouce back every time to be just as effective. He brought players into play, could drop wide, could taken set pieces, had excellent technique, was one of the best crossers of a ball going, great movement and intelligence... his goalscoring record and finishing with his feet and aerial ability was the tip of the iceberg.

The virtues that you're attributing to Rooney that make him a better 'allround' player are his playmaking skills and intelligence from deeper areas. These attributes are why I think he'll end up as a midfielder rather than a striker (he's basically that now, anyway). Rooney is a brilliant player but Shearer was the better striker.

honestly? I'm just gonna disregard everything else you've said. firstly because you're telling me what I'm saying, when I haven't even said what I'm saying. so that's a massive bit of fail. secondly because you're quite clearly in love with Shearer. you make him sound like Ronaldo.

and then, most importantly, because you suggest that because Rooney is capable of being a playmaker and being intelligent in deeper areas, he must end up as a midfielder (and that he's basically playing as one now). and that's just mindfuckingly retarded. it demonstrates a MASSIVE inability to understand how brilliant and balanced forwards can actually be (and why Rooney is so brilliant) and how different it is to be a CM.

the sad thing is, I think the majority of people in England think like you, which is why the country is such a pile of arse when it comes to producing brilliant players. there's a handful every generation who ride their natural talent to the top, but after that the drop-off in quality is gargantuan.

and by the way, to further cack on Shearer, Rooney has only played one season as a True9 (where Shearer spent his career), and he scored 34 goals in 44 games, won the Carling Cup (with crucial goals against megabucks City & in the final vs. Villa) and were it not for an unlucky injury in March, would have led his team to a League Title and a Champions League Final (where they may have won it).

 

[Sewelly]

It's funny that you're accusing me of putting words in your mouth when you've just done exactly the same thing. I never said he must end up as a midfielder, I said I think he will do. Jesus wept.

You're clearily in love with Rooney and are making him sound like Pele. See, anybody can play at that game too? Then the stereotypical nonsense about English football fans. I'm far too tired to try and argue against this bile, so I'll just let you get on with it.

Shearer was IMO a better striker than Rooney, despite suffering a career threatening injury just as he was hitting his peak. I think he was more consistent and more prolific than Rooney, was better internationally and while he isn't as good as Rooney in some areas I think Rooney isn't as good as Shearer in a number of others. You're not going to change my opinion on this, and I doubt I'm the only one that thinks so either.

 

[Metaphysical]

Rooney's yet to perform for England as well as Shearer did too. Another plus.

Rooney's had one good tournament for England, which is all Shearer managed as well.

if I was picking an all-time PL XI, I wouldn't have Rooney in it either. but that's because I'd have Henry and Cantona up-front for maximum levels of win, awesome, cool, swag and just about every other positive attribute you can think of. Rooney's not as good as Henry, and not yet as influential as Cantona (he can do for this generation of "kids" what Cantona did for Beckham & co. in '96, tho) so doesn't crack the top two. he'd be on the bench, though, alongside Bergkamp & Shearer.

 

[Sewelly]

Controversial but I think Cantona has become overrated over time...

(I can tell you're not going to like this one at all)

 

[Metaphysical]

It's funny that you're accusing me of putting words in your mouth when you've just done exactly the same thing. I never said he must end up as a midfielder, I said I think he will do. Jesus wept.

key word is earlier in that sentence, Champ: "suggest" I know you were offering up an opinion.

and it doesn't change the sheer ignorance of the statement.

You're clearily in love with Rooney and are making him sound like Pele. See, anybody can play at that game too? Then the stereotypical nonsense about English football fans. I'm far too tired to try and argue against this bile, so I'll just let you get on with it.

but I'm not in love with Rooney, I'm not saying he can do everything and is the most magnificent thing ever (which you were saying long before I entered the debate. you were all on HBA's balls for saying Carroll was better than Shearer, which is hilarious because that's not what he said at all) I'm just saying he's better than Shearer. which he is.

as for "stereotypical nonsense" - it's really not nonsense, is it? there are many people with the kinds of views you have in this country.

Shearer was IMO a better striker than Rooney, despite suffering a career threatening injury just as he was hitting his peak. I think he was more consistent and more prolific than Rooney, was better internationally and while he isn't as good as Rooney in some areas I think Rooney isn't as good as Shearer in a number of others. You're not going to change my opinion on this, and I doubt I'm the only one that thinks so either.

I don't want to change your opinion. I just want to point out how stupid it is so others don't get sucked into believing the hype about an overrated goalscorer.

 

[Sewelly]

Shearer an 'overrated goalscorer'. Whatever. The ignorance makes my eyes bleed.

What are your thoughts on the consistency argument? Did Shearer ever go through a spell of being as shit as Rooney did during and post-World Cup? What about the injury argument, do you think Rooney would be able to reinvent himself as a player if he was to (God forbid) go through a similar injury (nevermind multiple ones)?

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

400 Premier League goals? where did you learn to count? he ended with 238 PL goals. 379 allcomps.

he was a brilliant scorer, but as an all-around striker he doesn't even come close to Rooney. even as a goalscorer he's not lightyears ahead; Shearer's career goals-to-games ratio is 0.52, whereas Rooney's is 0.42 despite having only ever played one season a True9 (where Shearer spent his whole career) and never having the pleasure of a 42-game PL season, which Shearer did for 4 years.

plus Shearer was to Newcastle what Totti is to Roma. and that's a huge black mark against him.

then there's Shearer's inability to lead anyone to even a minor trophy despite often playing for the richest club in the country (Blackburn, early years at Newcastle). his only trophy (94-95 league) was achieved when Sutton arrived & pushed Blackburn over the top, and United bottled it on the final day against West Ham.

oh, and he smells like piss.

Rooney > Shearer

lol my bad it was in 400 appearances. Not 400 goals. I can be dislexic like that sometimes.

And I still disagree with you, Shearer is better than Rooney.

I love how everyone brings the trophy thing up with Shearer to try diminish from his talents somehow.

 

[Metaphysical]

Controversial but I think Cantona has become overrated over time...

(I can tell you're not going to like this one at all)

well yeah I don't like it. he was one of the 3 favourite players in my formative years as a football fan.

but judging Cantona is a weird one. he didn't deliver in Europe (mostly because his team-mates & manager were not ready for the CL - Europe had moved on after Heysel and the English clubs had some catching up to do) and was never the most prolific goalscorer. and his international record is non-existent since he told the FFF to go fuck themselves early on. so on those grounds, you can dismiss him (and many do).

but to judge Cantona you have to look beyond stats. I think you had to have watched him, really. his swagger was just off the charts. he did everything Bergkamp did, but with much more style. and the influence he wielded was absolutely enormous. he was a fantastic leader of men (on the pitch). the fact is that the only season which United didn't win the Title with him at the club was when he got suspended for most of it for kung-fu-kicking a fan!

he's in my team for his leadership and bottle (things Henry doesn't have loads of) and sheer swagger as much as his actual ability. Henry and Cantona would be the coolest attacking partnership ever.

 

[Sewelly]

I hate the idea that because Shearer never played for a top club it can be used as a stick to beat him with, too, btw. It's the way of modern football fans though that every single good player should always, without fail, end up at a select few clubs. I really hate this attitude. As soon as any player starts playing well instantly it's about how quickly he can move to a bigger club, even if the club he's at is a great club with history. Straying away from the Shearer argument a bit but I think it's relevant.

 

[woobie]

Okay, I'm not the most devoted watcher of English football and am by no means an expert but...why on earth are Alan Shearer and Andy Carroll even being mentioned in the same sentence? (I'm going to assume the obvious 'they both played for Newcastle' isn't what's being discussed here).

 

[Metaphysical]

What are your thoughts on the consistency argument? Did Shearer ever go through a spell of being as shit as Rooney did during and post-World Cup?

no. but did Shearer ever have injury combine with the kind of private life issues Rooney was having during that period?

it's not like he just magically became shit overnight. he got injured, played through it and got injured again, then was rushed back to play in a horribly disorganised England side while the News of the World started threatening to destroy his private life with their stories of his whoremongering. it's no surprise at all that his form picked up once he got healthy & got things sorted with his wife. I mean he brought that shit on himself, for sure, but it's still a notable factor.

and then talk about a turnaround: scored a fuckload in the second half of the season, including the comeback hattrick vs. West Ham (2-0 down remember), the 16 yard Overhead Kick vs. City (that goal does not get enough love) and 3 goals in the KO rounds of the CL (a total matched only by Raul and betteredonly by Messi) including a massive equaliser in the final itself against the Best Team In The World.

What about the injury argument, do you think Rooney would be able to reinvent himself as a player if he was to (God forbid) go through a similar injury (nevermind multiple ones)?

since he's been at United, Rooney has played as a forward in a front 2, a winger in a midfield 5, a wing-forward in a front 3, a True9, and now a #10. and he's done all of this excellently. so yes, I'd guess he would be able to reinvent himself.

 

[Sewelly]

well yeah I don't like it. he was one of the 3 favourite players in my formative years as a football fan.

but judging Cantona is a weird one. he didn't deliver in Europe (mostly because his team-mates & manager were not ready for the CL - Europe had moved on after Heysel and the English clubs had some catching up to do) and was never the most prolific goalscorer. and his international record is non-existent since he told the FFF to go fuck themselves early on. so on those grounds, you can dismiss him (and many do).

but to judge Cantona you have to look beyond stats. I think you had to have watched him, really. his swagger was just off the charts. he did everything Bergkamp did, but with much more style. and the influence he wielded was absolutely enormous. he was a fantastic leader of men (on the pitch). the fact is that the only season which United didn't win the Title with him at the club was when he got suspended for most of it for kung-fu-kicking a fan!

he's in my team for his leadership and bottle (things Henry doesn't have loads of) and sheer swagger as much as his actual ability. Henry and Cantona would be the coolest attacking partnership ever.

I understand that it's always important to look beyond statistics. Statistics don't compensate for direct viewing of a player in the same way as it does in other sports. I'd love to dig up a few classic matches and watch players like Cantona. Some players you have to just watch to truly appreciate their quality, Zidane is the one that always springs to mind with this. I often think to myself do we overrate him because of his aura, then I'll watch some old footage and realise what a fool I was for just considering the thought.

 

[Metaphysical]

Okay, I'm not the most devoted watcher of English football and am by no means an expert but...why on earth are Alan Shearer and Andy Carroll even being mentioned in the same sentence? (I'm going to assume the obvious 'they both played for Newcastle' isn't what's being discussed here).

HBA said Carroll was the best English CF since Shearer, and Sewelly took offence.

Viva then said some stuff. he mentioned Rooney.

I then said Rooney was better than Shearer ever was, and Sewelly took offence.

thus: the debate.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

I just want to point out how stupid it is so others don't get sucked into believing the hype about an overrated goalscorer.