Arthur

[Felipetonelo]

As I am the person that probably watched him more than anyone (I'm a Gremio fan), I want to clarify some things about Arthur and this "side/back passes" subject:
- He's not an attacking midfielder to frequently send final passes. Ex: Isco, Coutinho, James Rodriguez.
- He's not a pure defensive midfielder, who press all the time, get the ball and play simple. Ex: Casemiro, Kante.
- He's a center midfielder, a playmaker. Receives the ball from GK, CB's, LB and RB, and distribute around.

At Gremio, he used to get the ball, dribble to get away of the marker, and then pass. If we were looking for a counter attack, he would play fast/long balls. If we were looking to build the game, he would use short/medium passes in a progressive way. If we were being pressed, he would dribble to keep the ball, or make 1-2 to slow the game.

Arthur (and Barca) is facing dificulties in the build phase, pretty much because the team is really slow. Gremio had/has one of the most technical teams in Brazil, but also, we have a lot of players who works their ass off and MOVE a lot. The picture that we all have about Suarez, 2 or 3 years ago, running like a crazy man, stretching the field, defending and giving 110% during the game, we have in our CF. Luan is our AM/SS and if you guys watched him once, you know he covers a lot of ground and is always giving an option. He moves in every position of the attack during the game, that brings you a lot of options to play. We have Everton, a winger who cuts inside and is really fast.

I'm just going to mention those 3, in order to compare to Messi, Suarez, Dembele (taking yesterday game as an example). Yes, I know, those 3 are 100x times better than Gremio attackers, but my point is that Gremio attackers are moving a lot, creating spaces, giving options to the midfielders, something that currently Barca is lacking, mostly because Suarez and Messi are not making good movements in the attack.

Back to Arthur, in the build phase he's the guy to keep the ball moving. At Gremio, the ball could go back or sideways, but only with the purpose of send it to the side with numerical advantage. This currently Barca is a bunch of players standing, looking to the guy with the ball, waiting for the ball to come. If Arthur starts giving ball forward, the ball will go and back, but with no progression, because nobody is moving. So, what he did yesterday was changing the side, to see if a space appear, because none of the players were creating that space. That's why majority of his passes were sideways.

Indeed, he needs to improve in many aspects of his game. He needs to adapt to the team, formation and his teammates. But it's only his 4 game, of course he will play safe, keep possession and not risking too much. Making mistakes in this phase will only reduce his confidence playing, something that he doesn't need at this moment.

 

[SeloBarca]

Yes, its hard to make forward passes if there are noone to pass to.

 

[Joan]

Didn't even have a bad game. Nothing special but don't think many would ofer much more.

[youtube]67-0tadB6go[/youtube]

 

[xXKonan]

You can see in so many of those clips how static a number of our players were, especially Suarez.

There's a number of times where he could of slid a through ball in but Suarez was either offside or not moving enough to get to it.

 

[BBZ8800]

Didn't even have a bad game. Nothing special but don't think many would ofer much more.

[youtube]67-0tadB6go[/youtube]

People comparing new players with Xavi, Iniesta and similar.
In that cases, imo, it is always better to look how those former looked and played in the same age.

So, in your video, we can see Arthur, aged 22 with probably 95% of safepasses.

Here is Xavi, in 2001/02, aged 21, younger than a current Arthur.
Look at the amount of young Xavi's forward/risky passes. Also, his movement is different. Xavi moves even after a pass. Arthur sometimes "stops his movement" after a pass.

Here is Xavi aged 22-23 against Real (the toughest opponent again):

So, there are SOME similarities in their style of play.
But currently:
Xavi was controlling as a kid.
Xavi played some safepasses.
Xavi was a creator.

A current Arthur is only:
Controlling.
Playing safepasses.

A part about vision and creating is not here currently.

** Also, unrelated to Xavi and Arthur, when I look at these old videos, especially the 2nd one from 2002-03, I was shocked HOW FAST we played and how fast players moved.
When I was watching Arthur's video and OUR GENERAL pace of a whole team, it looks horrible and boring.
Then, when I was searching for some old videos for this reply, I was amazed and shocked how well and fast we played (even though 2001-2002-2003) is labelled as the worst era in our history under Gaspart.
So, the worst Barca ever played way faster that a current Barca. (I don't think it is because of EV. It is because of trying to copy Pep's style with old players).
And we dwelled less on the ball imo.
Players used less touches in general, moved more off the ball and played more direct than now.
even though we had Xavi, and "maestros" Cocu, Gabri, Rochemback, Motta in midfield.

** Then, after these 2 videos with a faster passing, open Arthur's passes and in general, try to watch again Barca's actions from 2018.
It is as if we are watching some slowmotion movie

Anyway, enjoy the videos.

 

[SeloBarca]

Pretty much 90% sideways passes inthat vid
Are you trying to make a sarcastic post?
Extremly slow play and noone running in those videos.

Xavi also played in La Masia since 11.
And speaks Spanish.

And yes, alot other teams players said the most impressive thing of our team during 2000s - Pep era was how much our players ran without the ball, opened up multiple passingchoices and pressed oponents like crazy.
To many players now stand still and doesnt move until they get the ball.

 

[ASordidGod]

As I am the person that probably watched him more than anyone (I'm a Gremio fan), I want to clarify some things about Arthur and this "side/back passes" subject:
- He's not an attacking midfielder to frequently send final passes. Ex: Isco, Coutinho, James Rodriguez.
- He's not a pure defensive midfielder, who press all the time, get the ball and play simple. Ex: Casemiro, Kante.
- He's a center midfielder, a playmaker. Receives the ball from GK, CB's, LB and RB, and distribute around.

At Gremio, he used to get the ball, dribble to get away of the marker, and then pass. If we were looking for a counter attack, he would play fast/long balls. If we were looking to build the game, he would use short/medium passes in a progressive way. If we were being pressed, he would dribble to keep the ball, or make 1-2 to slow the game.

Arthur (and Barca) is facing dificulties in the build phase, pretty much because the team is really slow. Gremio had/has one of the most technical teams in Brazil, but also, we have a lot of players who works their ass off and MOVE a lot. The picture that we all have about Suarez, 2 or 3 years ago, running like a crazy man, stretching the field, defending and giving 110% during the game, we have in our CF. Luan is our AM/SS and if you guys watched him once, you know he covers a lot of ground and is always giving an option. He moves in every position of the attack during the game, that brings you a lot of options to play. We have Everton, a winger who cuts inside and is really fast.

I'm just going to mention those 3, in order to compare to Messi, Suarez, Dembele (taking yesterday game as an example). Yes, I know, those 3 are 100x times better than Gremio attackers, but my point is that Gremio attackers are moving a lot, creating spaces, giving options to the midfielders, something that currently Barca is lacking, mostly because Suarez and Messi are not making good movements in the attack.

Back to Arthur, in the build phase he's the guy to keep the ball moving. At Gremio, the ball could go back or sideways, but only with the purpose of send it to the side with numerical advantage. This currently Barca is a bunch of players standing, looking to the guy with the ball, waiting for the ball to come. If Arthur starts giving ball forward, the ball will go and back, but with no progression, because nobody is moving. So, what he did yesterday was changing the side, to see if a space appear, because none of the players were creating that space. That's why majority of his passes were sideways.

Indeed, he needs to improve in many aspects of his game. He needs to adapt to the team, formation and his teammates. But it's only his 4 game, of course he will play safe, keep possession and not risking too much. Making mistakes in this phase will only reduce his confidence playing, something that he doesn't need at this moment.

Excellent analysis. And personally I liked what I saw of Arthur, think he'll be very good for us. However while I don't expect him to be racking up loads of assists, as his confidence increases I'd like to see him be a little less passive. Patience is crucial, of course it is, and I can't overstate how highly I value calmness, composure on the ball; but as a mid at Barca, facing banked defences, and with only a token presence in the box most of the time greatly reducing our effectiveness at crosses, it's imperitive to break the lines, either by passing or dribbling. It's why despite rating Rakitic as a pro, a competent mid, I've little love for him as a Barca player, because he's so reluctant to even TRY. Hell, in Croatia's world cup run I saw him dribble at least a couple of times successfully, which is a couple of times more than I've seen at Barca, so he's not incapable, but simply too cowardly. So, yeah, while I like the look of Arthur as a footballer, and am indeed overall pretty optimistic about him, to truly succeed here he'll have to be brave. Fingers crossed.

 

[soul24rage]

I'm not going to expect much from Arthur this season as it's going to be his first year in Europe and the Barca way is difficult to learn. Plus EV is more than likely going to pick Busi, Rakitic and even Vidal ahead of him while Arthur is eased in. He's still young for a CM, talented enough imo and he has given me a very good impression. Next season is the season I'm going to see if he is the guy for us.

 

[serghei]

As I am the person that probably watched him more than anyone (I'm a Gremio fan), I want to clarify some things about Arthur and this "side/back passes" subject:
- He's not an attacking midfielder to frequently send final passes. Ex: Isco, Coutinho, James Rodriguez.
- He's not a pure defensive midfielder, who press all the time, get the ball and play simple. Ex: Casemiro, Kante.
- He's a center midfielder, a playmaker. Receives the ball from GK, CB's, LB and RB, and distribute around.

At Gremio, he used to get the ball, dribble to get away of the marker, and then pass. If we were looking for a counter attack, he would play fast/long balls. If we were looking to build the game, he would use short/medium passes in a progressive way. If we were being pressed, he would dribble to keep the ball, or make 1-2 to slow the game.

Arthur (and Barca) is facing dificulties in the build phase, pretty much because the team is really slow. Gremio had/has one of the most technical teams in Brazil, but also, we have a lot of players who works their ass off and MOVE a lot. The picture that we all have about Suarez, 2 or 3 years ago, running like a crazy man, stretching the field, defending and giving 110% during the game, we have in our CF. Luan is our AM/SS and if you guys watched him once, you know he covers a lot of ground and is always giving an option. He moves in every position of the attack during the game, that brings you a lot of options to play. We have Everton, a winger who cuts inside and is really fast.

I'm just going to mention those 3, in order to compare to Messi, Suarez, Dembele (taking yesterday game as an example). Yes, I know, those 3 are 100x times better than Gremio attackers, but my point is that Gremio attackers are moving a lot, creating spaces, giving options to the midfielders, something that currently Barca is lacking, mostly because Suarez and Messi are not making good movements in the attack.

Back to Arthur, in the build phase he's the guy to keep the ball moving. At Gremio, the ball could go back or sideways, but only with the purpose of send it to the side with numerical advantage. This currently Barca is a bunch of players standing, looking to the guy with the ball, waiting for the ball to come. If Arthur starts giving ball forward, the ball will go and back, but with no progression, because nobody is moving. So, what he did yesterday was changing the side, to see if a space appear, because none of the players were creating that space. That's why majority of his passes were sideways.

Indeed, he needs to improve in many aspects of his game. He needs to adapt to the team, formation and his teammates. But it's only his 4 game, of course he will play safe, keep possession and not risking too much. Making mistakes in this phase will only reduce his confidence playing, something that he doesn't need at this moment.

Nice post. Today's football is all about pressure, intensity and hard work. Whoever won't understand that will lag behind.

 

[Joan]

People comparing new players with Xavi, Iniesta and similar.
In that cases, imo, it is always better to look how those former looked and played in the same age.

So, in your video, we can see Arthur, aged 22 with probably 95% of safepasses.

Here is Xavi, in 2001/02, aged 21, younger than a current Arthur.
Look at the amount of young Xavi's forward/risky passes. Also, his movement is different. Xavi moves even after a pass. Arthur sometimes "stops his movement" after a pass.

Here is Xavi aged 22-23 against Real (the toughest opponent again):

So, there are SOME similarities in their style of play.
But currently:
Xavi was controlling as a kid.
Xavi played some safepasses.
Xavi was a creator.

A current Arthur is only:
Controlling.
Playing safepasses.

A part about vision and creating is not here currently.

** Also, unrelated to Xavi and Arthur, when I look at these old videos, especially the 2nd one from 2002-03, I was shocked HOW FAST we played and how fast players moved.
When I was watching Arthur's video and OUR GENERAL pace of a whole team, it looks horrible and boring.
Then, when I was searching for some old videos for this reply, I was amazed and shocked how well and fast we played (even though 2001-2002-2003) is labelled as the worst era in our history under Gaspart.
So, the worst Barca ever played way faster that a current Barca. (I don't think it is because of EV. It is because of trying to copy Pep's style with old players).
And we dwelled less on the ball imo.
Players used less touches in general, moved more off the ball and played more direct than now.
even though we had Xavi, and "maestros" Gabri, Rochemback, Motta in midfield.

** Then, after these 2 videos with a faster passing, open Arthur's passes and in general, try to watch again Barca's actions from 2018.
It is as if we are watching some slowmotion movie

Anyway, enjoy the videos.

Yes, but people come here comparing him with Xavi. Don't know how you rate him, but Xavi's the best midfielder I've ever seen. Another monster, unreal player. Mobile, always in control, yet highly creative. There might never be another Xavi, yet we're expecting a newcomer to resemble him in his first competitive match with us? Sorry BBZ, that makes no sense. Why do people compare him with Xavi? It's not about quality but style which can be similar here and there.

Anyways, reading the comments you'd expect he had a stinker. Nothing special, but not a new Gomes either. Arthur has his pros and cons, like every player. He doesn't even have to be a creator. Hard-working player who'll be able to advance the ball, press hard etc. One more thing, you can't tell me he's not mobile, almost always moves after a pass.

Regarding our slow tempo, yes, it's quite disappointing. Same old slow sterile football. You probably attribute it to pace. For sure, but imo it's mostly mobility we're lacking. Especially in attack. Walking Messi and Suarez are way too hard to accommodate. Pace always helps.

Edit: serghei wrote a great post in Valverde's thread dealing with movements, I liked it, says a thing or two about Arthur as well. Will just post a link here: http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/14423-Ernesto-Valverde?p=1965826&viewfull=1#post1965826

 

[Garrus]

People comparing new players with Xavi, Iniesta and similar.
In that cases, imo, it is always better to look how those former looked and played in the same age.

So, in your video, we can see Arthur, aged 22 with probably 95% of safepasses.

Here is Xavi, in 2001/02, aged 21, younger than a current Arthur.
Look at the amount of young Xavi's forward/risky passes. Also, his movement is different. Xavi moves even after a pass. Arthur sometimes "stops his movement" after a pass.

Here is Xavi aged 22-23 against Real (the toughest opponent again):

So, there are SOME similarities in their style of play.
But currently:
Xavi was controlling as a kid.
Xavi played some safepasses.
Xavi was a creator.

A current Arthur is only:
Controlling.
Playing safepasses.

A part about vision and creating is not here currently.

** Also, unrelated to Xavi and Arthur, when I look at these old videos, especially the 2nd one from 2002-03, I was shocked HOW FAST we played and how fast players moved.
When I was watching Arthur's video and OUR GENERAL pace of a whole team, it looks horrible and boring.
Then, when I was searching for some old videos for this reply, I was amazed and shocked how well and fast we played (even though 2001-2002-2003) is labelled as the worst era in our history under Gaspart.
So, the worst Barca ever played way faster that a current Barca. (I don't think it is because of EV. It is because of trying to copy Pep's style with old players).
And we dwelled less on the ball imo.
Players used less touches in general, moved more off the ball and played more direct than now.
even though we had Xavi, and "maestros" Cocu, Gabri, Rochemback, Motta in midfield.

** Then, after these 2 videos with a faster passing, open Arthur's passes and in general, try to watch again Barca's actions from 2018.
It is as if we are watching some slowmotion movie

Anyway, enjoy the videos.

Here is some basic, level of logic, You need to make for any comparison:

1- Any variables apart from the subjects being compared, Should remain fixed, You don’t just take arthur’s Performance against a team playing the most defensive formation (5-4-1) And with very compact lines, (Which naturally lead to slow play and lack of spaces for forward passes), Then you come and pull some random video of xavi on YouTube playing against opponents with completely different formations and clearly with more open play, (Which gives much more opportunities for forward passes) , Then you come here and say look how xavi is better at Arthur as a creator, I mean that’s just non-objective none sense, And you know it, How about you show us xavi playing against a very compact 5-4-1 at the age of 22.

What’s funny is you first accuse Arthur of playing 95% safepasses instead of the risky passes xavi used to make, Yet At the end, You admit that the current team moves much less and slower than those old videos, Which logically leads to more safepasses needed to be played, As their are no spaces or movement, So make up your mind on who’s fault is it for those the side way passes, Arthur or the team.

2- The sample size for comparison should be as large as possible, Tens and tens of matches, Again, This is statistics 101, Your sample size of Arthur official performances is.........One..............One match............., I really don’t know what to say to you.

I know you try to be objective BBZ, But sometimes, You have huge fundmental flaws in your arguments.

Anyway, Those who watched how Arthur played at Gremiro, Knows that forward creativity isn’t his strong suit, Although, He can muster some things up from time to time when needed, As for Xavi’s comparisons, if Arthur managed to reach just 1/3 of what prime xavi used to do, I’ll be jumping up and down from happiness.

 

[DonAndres]

I've never seen anyone misinterpret praise or evaluation of a player as wildly as BBZ. Make any comments whatsoever about Arthur's ability to break the press with dribbling/passes or his movement off the ball and how he's a positive defensive presence, and you'll get hit with the same reply every single time of:

"I'm sorry, you are way too optimistic about this technical player so I can't take you seriously. You said Arthur is a controlling genius and a dribbler like Iniesta, and now you're saying he is a perfect defender too. You are saying he is Xavi/Iniesta/Kante all in one player. Arthur is nowhere near Xavi." and crap like that. It's as if the idea of a purely stylistic comparison goes way over his head and he pretty much NEVER learns to grasp it after thousands of wall of text essays.

And then he expects to be taken seriously saying that muscles and not being a schoolboy is the key to success in football.

An ABC's grade school level breakdown of the player and the game in general, I don't understand how you can be so steadfast yet refuse to learn any new information or take the time to actually understand someone's perspective.

As for Arthur himself, he doesn't need to be "Mr. Throughball" the way Xavi was. Xavi was a record breaking assister and, either above/alongside Messi for some years, Europe's premier chance creator. Arthur could have 0 assists in his whole career and never create any final chances, yet if he manages to be similar whatsoever to Xavi in his ability to organize the game and transition the ball over the entire area of the pitch then he will be a great success.

 

[Jombi]

People comparing new players with Xavi, Iniesta and similar.

Because they need to be replaced and people are comparing the style of play of the players. Not that they are as good as Xavi and Iniesta, two legendary players of all time. Thats just impossible. So you simply misunderstand people (on purpose?) in order to attack new signings you hate before you even see them play.

 

[Donatello]

Our slow buildup is one of the reasons why we suck at CL, while Madrid excell at it.

A slow buildup is less likelier to get countered, but is also much easier to mark our attacking players when we attack.

Plus, it is also wasting the pace that we have in this team.

Just see Man city, they play tiki taka too, but with much faster buildup and some counter attacking when there is a chance.

People don't realise, but Valverde avoid taking risks and always goes for the safe option, which is good when you have 38 matches to win trophy. But, in CL one bad match and it could be game over.

 

[Androutsos]

Arthur could have 0 assists in his whole career and never create any final chances, yet if he manages to be similar whatsoever to Xavi in his ability to organize the game and transition the ball over the entire area of the pitch then he will be a great success.

100% and this is what a lot of people are misunderstanding. People were screaming for a 'controller' and we got one, and now those same people are losing their shit after 1 game with a lethargic bunch playing their first game of the season against a team that has already played 6 games already utilising a low block.