Arthur

[pregra]

To call that half superb is mental.

 

[Barcaman]

Very good game. Once he came off we struggled to create anything.

 

[Gnidrologist]

One thing i don't like in his current play is that he gravitates too much deep back and centrally, basically orbiting Busqets and Rakitic, who are both deep lying too. It makes too much of a gap between attack and mid and he is supposed to be the glue guy. When he moves forward he opens up more options, but i guess with paralytics like Busi and Raki he has no choice, but to make himself available much deeper.

 

[YodaMaster]

When he moves forward he opens up more options, but i guess with paralytics like Busi and Raki he has no choice, but to make himself available much deeper.

It's clearly the case.
As I said on Rakitic thread, the croatian absolutely doesn't give a fuck when the team tries to build from the back. If Arthur doesn't get deep, it means that Busquets has to beat the pressure and bring the ball forward alone vs 3-4 players. It's a very difficult thing to do, Rakitic won't help Busquets so that's why it is important to have Arthur deep in these scenarios. Xavi always came in our last third to help defense and Busquets in the build up from the back. The problem is that we have 1 true DM (Busquets), 1 true CM (Arthur) and Rakitic who is useless in all scenarios where he has to face pressure. We're basically a 2 midfielders team during the build up from the back.

Arthur and Busquets were building and fighting the pressure while Rakitic was on the side just watching them. If somehow someone gives the ball to Rakitic in those build ups from the back against high pressure, he'll just backpass even if there's a possibility to play forward. Rakitic won't take risks to save his life. He just doesn't know how to do it, he looks like an amateur under pressure, I really believe that I wouldn't do worse than him.

Now, does that completely excuse Arthur ? No. He clearly doesn't make his presence felt enough in offensive scenarios. He has to position himself a little bit higher, and he has to deliver more key passes.

But I also believe that our midfield lacks an AMish CM in the midfield trio. Busquets is the natural DM, Arthur is the natural CM, we need a second more attack minded CM (someone like KDB/Bernardo/Isco) to have a balanced trio. That's why I'm asking for Coutinho as the third midfield. He has clear flaws (too light defensively, lacks discipline) but a good coach would have found a way to fit him in the midfield, I'm absolutely convinced of that.

 

[Porque]

We are a better team when Arthur plays, but he is not a 90 minute player yet. I wouldn't worry too much about that, neither was Rakitic in his first season here.

 

[Co0ter]

It's clearly the case.
As I said on Rakitic thread, the croatian absolutely doesn't give a fuck when the team tries to build from the back. If Arthur doesn't get deep, it means that Busquets has to beat the pressure and bring the ball forward alone vs 3-4 players. It's a very difficult thing to do, Rakitic won't help Busquets so that's why it is important to have Arthur deep in these scenarios. Xavi always came in our last third to help defense and Busquets in the build up from the back. The problem is that we have 1 true DM (Busquets), 1 true CM (Arthur) and Rakitic who is useless in all scenarios where he has to face pressure. We're basically a 2 midfielders team during the build up from the back.

Arthur and Busquets were building and fighting the pressure while Rakitic was on the side just watching them. If somehow someone gives the ball to Rakitic in those build ups from the back against high pressure, he'll just backpass even if there's a possibility to play forward. Rakitic won't take risks to save his life. He just doesn't know how to do it, he looks like an amateur under pressure, I really believe that I wouldn't do worse than him.

Now, does that completely excuse Arthur ? No. He clearly doesn't make his presence felt enough in offensive scenarios. He has to position himself a little bit higher, and he has to deliver more key passes.

But I also believe that our midfield lacks an AMish CM in the midfield trio. Busquets is the natural DM, Arthur is the natural CM, we need a second more attack minded CM (someone like KDB/Bernardo/Isco) to have a balanced trio. That's why I'm asking for Coutinho as the third midfield. He has clear flaws (too light defensively, lacks discipline) but a good coach would have found a way to fit him in the midfield, I'm absolutely convinced of that.

I also think Coutinho was made to be molded into our attacking CM, VV is likely just not the coach to do it....unfortunately he's what we got for the time being and likely the remainder of Coutinhos prime.

I think a lot of it has to do with the coach, honestly. Rakitic standing around playing defensively has to do with his role designed by the coach. He is NOT a defensive minded player by trade. He was VERY offensive at Sevilla and remains that way with the Croatian national team...Barca just forces him to play in a role that does not suit him. We have Arthur as a disciplined CM now so there really isn't a reason for him to be playing so reserved unless 1) he is lazy (he has never been a lazy player for us) or the coach wants him to position himself that way. It's the same coach that is forcing our record signing to play on the LW when he clearly doesn't have the pace or attributes to play that position for our team....effectively negativing 50% of his talent at the same time.

I'm not saying VV is a shit coach, but he sucks for Barca. People defend him due to our record, but when we play against decent opposition we get exposed big time and a lot of that has to do with forcing a bunch of square shaped blocks into circle shaped holes. It's simply just that. We do not have 1 dimensional players at all, we have a wonderful team. Vidal was a GREAT versatile signing....Arthur was a great, young yet matured for his years talent. Coutinho is a fantastic world class player and Dembele was 1 of the two best young talents in the world. He has the squad Lucho never had, and Lucho was a shit coach that road prime Messi to the CL. Our team is not average, our team is a very good...if not the best, team in the world. Can we improve? yes. Are some of our key players aging and been out form for a while? Yes....but no excuses really, we've brought in talent to fill most of those roles. At this point, you could put an ape in charge of that team and you'd get similar results to VV....seesaw football where we look like we never have a plan and play great one second and without a clue the next.

 

[Barcaman]

We are a better team when Arthur plays, but he is not a 90 minute player yet. I wouldn't worry too much about that, neither was Rakitic in his first season here.

Who is 90mins player at Barca except Alba?

 

[Porque]

Who is 90mins player at Barca except Alba?

What I mean is that he is still adapting to the pace of European football. You can see his output drops in second halves off the ball.

But you are correct in that, compared to other elite European sides our team KM/match is too low.

 

[YodaMaster]

Btw, I still don't think that Arthur's defensive stats are bad only due to his advanced position.
For now, he doesn't look like a too defensive oriented guy.

Which is fine in matches like this one.
But imo, a midfield with Arthur and a CAM is almost impossible unless he improves defensively.
If not, he will need to play with 2 Rakitics or Vidals around him.

Does Arthur have to improve defensively ? Absolutely. He has to work harder, and not only defensively. I agree with you.
Normally he will cause he's young and he's far from being an end product. But for that to happen, not only he needs to play, he also needs to be managed correctly.

I'll say it this way: when you watch general contribution as a CM in a game, Arthur brings more to the team than Rakitic.
By general contribution I mean defensive contribution, offensive contribution and build up plays.

If we talk about defensive contribution:
- 2019 Rakitic is average (slightly above average at best)
- Arthur is average
- Vidal surpasses both of them by a long margin in that aspect of the game.

If we talk about offensive contribution:
- Arthur right now is meh but he has all the quality to shine in offensive scenarios, he already showed it even if it's rare, he's only 22
- 2019 Rakitic is absolute shit, he really has nothing left outside of maybe his long range shot but we haven't seen it for a while
=> It's fair to say that Arthur is more promising in that aspect as he can only go up from here while Rakitic is going down more and more every game.

If we speak about build ups (especially from the back and against high pressure)
- Arthur is by far our best CM for that task
- Rakitic is our worst at this exercise
=> a galaxy separates them in this aspect.

So how do you justify Rakitic being the undisputed first choice CM in Barça ? If the priority is to defend and work hard without the ball, Vidal surpasses Rakitic pretty easily. If the priority is to play possession football, Arthur is miles ahead. Knowing that Barça since Cruyff our savior has always been all about possession and attractive football, the pecking order for these 3 players should be:
1. Arthur
2. Vidal
3. Rakitic
And I really do believe that only one of Rakitic and Vidal should be at the club.

As you can see, I'm being fair so I recognize that right now Arthur is far from being a workhorse. He isn't showing great activity in defensive aspects.
If a team sits deep and let the opponent play tiki taka in its last third, Arthur isn't the best option for that team. But what Barça fan wants his team to play such football ?
I want Barcelona to play high on the field, constantly attacking football, and press high when the ball is lost in order to get it back as quick as possible (e.g. Pep's 5 seconds rule). Sitting deep and waiting could happen even for such team in a game, but it shouldn't happen more than 10-15 minutes overall.

I believe that a great attack minded coach would have managed to learn Coutinho discipline and Barça would play with a Busquets-Arthur-Coutinho trio at Camp Nou, and with a Busquets-Arthur-Vidal midfield in big away games. That's true Barça reasoning.

 

[Aryagorn]

Does Arthur have to improve defensively ? Absolutely. He has to work harder, and not only defensively. I agree with you.
Normally he will cause he's young and he's far from being an end product. But for that to happen, not only he needs to play, he also needs to be managed correctly.

I'll say it this way: when you watch general contribution as a CM in a game, Arthur brings more to the team than Rakitic.
By general contribution I mean defensive contribution, offensive contribution and build up plays.

If we talk about defensive contribution:
- 2019 Rakitic is average (slightly above average at best)
- Arthur is average
- Vidal surpasses both of them by a long margin in that aspect of the game.

If we talk about offensive contribution:
- Arthur right now is meh but he has all the quality to shine in offensive scenarios, he already showed it even if it's rare, he's only 22
- 2019 Rakitic is absolute shit, he really has nothing left outside of maybe his long range shot but we haven't seen it for a while
=> It's fair to say that Arthur is more promising in that aspect as he can only go up from here while Rakitic is going down more and more every game.

If we speak about build ups (especially from the back and against high pressure)
- Arthur is by far our best CM for that task
- Rakitic is our worst at this exercise
=> a galaxy separates them in this aspect.

So how do you justify Rakitic being the undisputed first choice CM in Barça ? If the priority is to defend and work hard without the ball, Vidal surpasses Rakitic pretty easily. If the priority is to play possession football, Arthur is miles ahead. Knowing that Barça since Cruyff our savior has always been all about possession and attractive football, the pecking order for these 3 players should be:
1. Arthur
2. Vidal
3. Rakitic
And I really do believe that only one of Rakitic and Vidal should be at the club.

As you can see, I'm being fair so I recognize that right now Arthur is far from being a workhorse. He isn't showing great activity in defensive aspects.
If a team sits deep and let the opponent play tiki taka in its last third, Arthur isn't the best option for that team. But what Barça fan wants his team to play such football ?
I want Barcelona to play high on the field, constantly attacking football, and press high when the ball is lost in order to get it back as quick as possible (e.g. Pep's 5 seconds rule). Sitting deep and waiting could happen even for such team in a game, but it shouldn't happen more than 10-15 minutes overall.

I believe that a great attack minded coach would have managed to learn Coutinho discipline and Barça would play with a Busquets-Arthur-Coutinho trio at Camp Nou, and with a Busquets-Arthur-Vidal midfield in big away games. That's true Barça reasoning.

+1000

 

[clemente]

I noticed he always looks gassed at 70min and at that time he usually gets subbed off, and its like that since he joined us, once again our fitness staff comes suspect.

 

[Messigician]

I noticed he always looks gassed at 70min and at that time he usually gets subbed off, and its like that since he joined us, once again our fitness staff comes suspect.

Rakitic was the same in his 1st season...

 

[clemente]

Rakitic was the same in his 1st season...

In the season he was covering for both Messi and Alves?

 

[Gnidrologist]

Rakitic in this season he's like that from the start of the game.

 

[Arizona Scott]

I thought Arthur played well. I think he should be cemented as a regular in La Liga and Cup matches. One, I want to see if he continues to get better and better, and two, I want Busi, Rakitic and Vidal rotated a lot. I'd like to see Coutinho in the midfield too but I can't see a drastic change in how EV is going to use PC this year.

Do I want Arthur starting the Liga match vs Atletic (where we can all but make the league race over) and CL legs that are not all but won? Not at this point, I would want more experience and more defensive presence (another thing missing from the Rakitic is how effective he is when we defend and attack in set pieces, and clear/intercept in general, we are a small team except for Pique).

I think what Arthur is doing in his 1st season of big boy football is very impressive and his outlook for Barca very bright.