Arthur

[Vilarrubi]

You are dishonest lately, what happened to you?
If you are mentioning my L's, why don't you be honest and say that I was the first guy 2 years ago who said that Dumbele is dumb as fuck based on his interview, presentation and first weird events when he didn't know how to stretch before matches, talk to a coach that he has muscle problems, where he didn't know Spanish, where he fired chef and lived unhealthy?
Or Malcom-Crystal Palace guy?

Speak for yourself lol

You were right with Dembele, no-ones denying that, but in that same 2 year span the list of things you said which turned out to be nonsense is way bigger. About Malcom, i'm not sure anyone here truly believed he would ever make the starting 11, I definitely didn't, I thought he was a squad player at best and should have joined Roma when he had the chance.

My only sin lately is defending Ivan Lampard Rakitic.
And not shitting on EV.
But I am not shitting on Ev because our team is filled with Arthurs, Dembeles and Malcoms who are imo bad players and people thought that we had best players in the world.
He was doing good for 2 years with our overrated players.
EV had some european mistakes, though.

Regarding Lampard, majority of my posts were between Ivan Lampard and Arthur since for me Arthur is very meh player and I would rather play Ivan in 90% of matches.
Even though Lampard is also far from a perfect player for Barca.
EXCEPT against Liverpool on Anfield and City at Ittihad, which happens twice in a season.
In majority of other matches, Arthur is more or less useless or easily replaceable with players with more strengths.

Also, majority of my posts about Lampard were because imo, Arthur is now the most overhyped player here (Dembele was that guy for the previous 2 years) and someone needs to slowly open the eyes to our fans.
Since in the last season, our only midfield options were Busi, Raki, Vidal and Arthur and since here we had Arthur vs Raki debate, this is where my posts came from.

But now, since we have Roberto as a Raki vol2, Frenkie, Alena, Busi, I don't need to mention Raki anymore.
You see, I am Raki's fan, but:
1. if we have better midfield options than Raki=I am for benching/selling Raki
2. the only difference is=I would bench Raki for Roberto and Frenkie, but NOT for Arthur.
And again, since people here made a new Xavi out of this guy, this is where my Lampard and similar posts came from.
I am fan of Fc Barca. Not Fc Raki or Fc Arthur.
The only difference that Raki is way better for Arthur for Fc Barca.
... except once in a year when we visit Anfield...

Now, even if you remove Raki, I would play more or less anyone instead of Arthur, because more or less all of our midfielders have more allround skills than him.

Also, why do you call my posts against Arthur agenda?
That is not agenda, I just think that he is... well not shit, but average. And nowhere near the level what people dream of currently.

The same as with Dembele.
I didn't have "agenda" against him.
A guy was just dumb as fuck from the day 1, a horrible fit, a bad passer, lived an unhealthy life, overpriced transfer.

But as I have explained, a Phase no2 of a denial and blaming everyone else will last for some time and there will be 100s of more random and dishonest posts like yours until we move to a phase No3.
So, let's let Arthur to speak on a field with his backpasses and slow running.

Then we'll find a new guy over whom we will argue in the next season.

We've had this convo before though and you have changed your tone completely. You said where was our attacking output going to come from without Rakitic and that we NEEDED him in 90% of games, now you are saying we don't because we have Roberto, so all those long paragraphs and stats you wrote defending him were pointless in the end lol even with Arthur's lack of attacking output if he was starting for us in La Liga I still believe we would win it, we just dominate that competition with Messi.

 

[mc_lovin]

Calling Arthur a bad player He may be a bad fit at worst if Frenkie is the "bigger and better" version, but its just 2 games into the season. Rigt now Frenkie, Busquets, Roberto and Arthur should eat up most minutes with Vidal as an impact sub and Alena as work in progress. And I think we will see soon enough that Arthur is a much better talent than Sergi. Tragically we depend on Valverde to build a decent midifeld.

 

[CatalinR10]

Calling Arthur a bad player He may be a bad fit at worst if Frenkie is the "bigger and better" version, but its just 2 games into the season. Rigt now Frenkie, Busquets, Roberto and Arthur should eat up most minutes with Vidal as an impact sub and Alena as work in progress. And I think we will see soon enough that Arthur is a much better talent than Sergi. Tragically we depend on Valverde to build a decent midifeld.

We didn't see that allready ?

 

[mc_lovin]

People have short memories apparently.

 

[BBZ8800]

Speak for yourself lol

You were right with Dembele, no-ones denying that, but in that same 2 year span the list of things you said which turned out to be nonsense is way bigger. About Malcom, i'm not sure anyone here truly believed he would ever make the starting 11, I definitely didn't, I thought he was a squad player at best and should have joined Roma when he had the chance.

Out of fun, can you name those things were I was wrong in the last 2 years?
1. Dembele, check
2. Malcom, Cule4Life, Messi2140 and lots of other were making a fun of me when a mighty Malcom scored a goal against RM, as if that is a proof of how good he is and how EV was wrong.
Also, remember how many people had crazy hopes at the start of a last season of a magical attacking trio: Dembele-Messi-Malcom.

At the end of a last season, some even suggested that we should sell all seniors bar Messi.
And create a new team with a core: Dembele, Malcom, Arthur, Messi, Alena, Puig.

I guess that you will say that my mistake was Anfield.
Well, I agree that 3 workhorses is not a way to go.
We have Frenkie now and several different options.

But my workhorse theory was due to crazy ideas of majority of people here how: 3 light midfielders is the way to go in a CL, since you know, we won once that way, when we had the best 2 midfielders ever.
In all other combinations, light midfield duo or trio led to a group stage elimination, far worse tragedies than Anfield and Rome.

Other mistakes, probably since I don't think that EV is the worst coach ever?
And faith in Ivan Lampard Rakitic. But as explained, that was only in a response to ideas to Arthur as a the next Xavi and how a sterile midfield who will just pass sideway passes is the answer for a CL.
Oh, and before he came here, I had faith in Cou, since he was a world class player. Silly me.
But after 3-4 matches, I stopped commenting in his topic because 10s of questions emerged and my hype for him came into a serious doubt.

Now compare those "mistakes" to:
1. I have said that Dembele is dumb after 2 matches and that he will never gonna make it here
2. Malcom, Crystal Palace level
3. Denis, I have said after 2 matches that he is the worst player in our squad
4. Semedo, I was among the first who said that he is braindead in attack
5. Mina, after two weeks a few of us said: there is probably a strong reason why a guy is nowhere near coach's plans

So, except workhorses being murdered at Anfield, what were the mistakes?
Regarding Lampard vs Arthur, hold your breath and wait whether the new Xavi will ever get even close to a career of Raki.

We've had this convo before though and you have changed your tone completely. You said where was our attacking output going to come from without Rakitic and that we NEEDED him in 90% of games, now you are saying we don't because we have Roberto, so all those long paragraphs and stats you wrote defending him were pointless in the end lol even with Arthur's lack of attacking output if he was starting for us in La Liga I still believe we would win it, we just dominate that competition with Messi.

Why are you acting like Dembele now?
I'll try slower. Read slowly, you'll get it now:

2-3 Months ago, NO ONE knew that Roberto will be a midfielder.
Debate then was: Frenkie-Arthur or Frenkie-Raki for a new season.
In that moment, and even today, my opinion is: ALWAYS Raki unless if you play at Anfield, where Arthur is better since that is the only match in the world where he can use his slalom-avoiding opponents skills.
So, before a preseason, I was saying that Lampard is a better pick than Arthur, when you look at a larger picture if other midfielders are Busi (sterile in attack) and Frenkie (meh in attack also).
So, isn't it perfectly logical that against parked buses at 0:0 in the 70th minute against Getafe, it is better to play Raki-Frenkie-Busi (or even Frenkie-Raki-Alena) than Arthur-Busi-Frenkie.

That was what I was talking for Months.
Against Mickey Mouse teams you need more shooting options, not press resistance and 90% of possession with sideway passes.

And then, EV decided that Roberto needs to be a midfielder, and that changed a lot of things.
Rob brings similar virtues as Raki, except that he can run more.
So, now you can just insert Roberto instead of Rakitic in that debate.
And so you have:
1. Raki vs Arthur against Getafe=the answer is obviously Raki since he can DO something in the attacking 3rd
2. and today it is: Roberto vs Arthur in the attacking third. And again, even in debate: a tree vs Arthur in the attacking third, my pick would be=a tree, so you know that Roberto also wins here.

And now, since we have Roberto, I am content with selling Raki since we need money, have too many players and Rob is bringing the same qualities which Raki had.
Plus, we play faster.

Now, did I change my story or have I just adapted to new circumstances, called: Bob in midfield out of nowhere? And Bob is a new Raki?
One thing is always the same and consistent in my posts:
1. Arthur is the most overrated player currently on this forum
2. and I would play EVERY SINGLE other midfielder in our team (even Puig) against Getafe at home than Arthur. Arthur is my last pick.
Not because I hate him for some unknown reasons but because a guy is the worst Barca's midfielder in the attacking 3rd since... I have no idea even what to asnwer.
Even horrible Rochemback at least knew to shoot, even though he was as dumb as Dembele.
I don't think that I have ever seen a more sterile, shy and scared midfielder (in the attacking 3rd) in our team since I watch Barca from 90s.

And again, since we are Barca, and we play 90% of matches against Getafe where we need to attack and chase goals, this is why I dislike Arthur.
Paired with forum's overhyped-cult ideas that he is the new Xavi and the answer for everything, just because his skills come in handy at Anfield, once in 6 Months per season and he resembles on Xavi in 2 footballing skills (out of 10 skills).

even with Arthur's lack of attacking output if he was starting for us in La Liga I still believe we would win it, we just dominate that competition with Messi.

So, basically, you are saying: whoever will play in midfield, we will win EITHER way, since Messi will save us.
But then, why on Earth:
1. playing Raki in midfield and Messi saving a day against Getafe=is a bad and cancerous thing
2. playing Arthur in midfield and Messi saving a day against Getafe=is awesome thing. Barca's DNA. EV is good. This is how we should play.
Basically, they both won't do anything to contribute a win, but playing one of them is awesome and exciting, and playing the other is cancerous and a reason to shut down a TV.

** Arthur's videos where he was bad last season are gone from Youtube now.
So, I can't post too many videos now to prove points from above.
The only match left is: Valencia in a CDR final:
Now, look at this video AFTER Valencia scored, at 0:1 and 0:2.
In those moments, we didn't need press resistance anymore and we played against a bus.
Now look at that beautiful and creative football which Arthur is offering once when we need goals:

Minute 22, 0:1: backpass to Pique, not even looking towards the box
Minute 22, 0:1: sidepas to Raki, not even looking towards the box. Only looking how NOT to lose the ball no matter what, as if he is playing a World final in rondos and the winner will be the one who will pass the ball till death.
Minute 24, 0:1: clueless in the box, plays a backpass to Semedo and losing the ball.
Minute 24, 0:1: tried a backpass to Coutinho. He was fouled by 2 players.
Minute 26, 0:1: sideway pass to Semedo, far from the box and action.
Minute 26, 0:1: sideway pass to another fullback, Alba.
Minute 31, 0:1: lost the ball in our half.
Minute 41, 0:2: pass to Alba. He played sideways. He almost never play through the middle to attackers.
Minute 43, 0:2: the same again. He is not even looking towards the box. He is passing sideways to Alba and saying: please, you try something. I will never try anything around the box. I will just give the ball to you.
Minute 45, 0:2: surprise, surprise, again, he is not even looking towards the box. He is passing to a safest option: Alba again.

So, basically, after 0:1, he touched the ball 10 times, and NOT A SINGLE TIME moved the ball CLOSER to the box and action.
His every solution, idea and pass is: look for the player who is not marked by anyone and who will SURELY not lose the ball
Which is the most often: Busi, Pique, Alba or Semedo.

I mean, passing safely is not a bad thing.
But when you are losing 0:1 or 0:2, you can't pass safely all the time.
You need risk, vertical runs towards the box (Bob), vertical passes towards the box (more or less any player except Arthur), shots towards goal (Rafinha, Raki, Vidal, Alena, Bob).
And this pattern, how he plays is repeating during his whole career till now.
The same happened in a spring in all easier matches when he was subbed and when the score was 0:0 in the 2nd half.
Since he is useless when we need to attack and score and when we have only 20-30 minutes to do that.

Now, if you look back at his career, in what type of matches he thrived?
1. Copa Libertadores=crazy kung fu matches with opponents running and tackling like headless chicken
2. Copa America=the same story
3. Barca: matches against Real, Tottenham, Sevilla
= again, 50:50 matches against strong opponents where they are running at him

Now, can you name more than 2 matches at Camp Nou against Mickey Mouse opponents where he was awesome?
= I can't

And then, we go back to WHY I have said that even Ivan Lampard Rakitic is more useful against weak teams.
But we will go back to a mighty reply: but but but, Arthur would be better against Liverpool.

You guys are hyping a player (the most promising young midfielder in the world, lol) who is useful in 5 matches per season.
Or when we lead 2:0 and we need to kill the match with sterile possession and safe passes.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Out of fun, can you name those things were I was wrong in the last 2 years?


1. Dembele, check
2. Malcom, Cule4Life, Messi2140 and lots of other were making a fun of me when a mighty Malcom scored a goal against RM, as if that is a proof of how good he is and how EV was wrong.
Also, remember how many people had crazy hopes at the start of a last season of a magical attacking trio: Dembele-Messi-Malcom.

At the end of a last season, some even suggested that we should sell all seniors bar Messi.
And create a new team with a core: Dembele, Malcom, Arthur, Messi, Alena, Puig.

I guess that you will say that my mistake was Anfield.
Well, I agree that 3 workhorses is not a way to go.
We have Frenkie now and several different options.

1. Rakitic has to play.
2. That Valverde is a good coach and knows what he's doing.
3. Coutinho would fit well.
4. We needed height in our team.
5. We could win La Liga with ANY midfield because of "Cheat Code Messi" but now claim we can't without attacking midfielders.
6. That we didn't need Arthur in CL.
7. We needed workhorses.
8. We needed Rabiot more than Frenkie.
9. Roberto is better than Semedo at RB (although this is still up for opinion but Roberto has been involved in our CL defeats and provided NONE of these goals/assists you defend him with, we will see how Semedo does)
10. We should play more conservative style in the CL (we tried to play more defensive, let the other team have the ball and failed miserably twice, two biggest humiliations in our history)


Those have just come to my head in 5 minutes, i'm sure i'll think of some more too.

Also pending ones:

1. That Semedo will be worse than Roberto at RB... I'm certain given a full season and full confidence of the manager at RB he will be better than Roberto was.
2. That Griezmann will be shit as a striker and Suarez is better. I'm sure Suarez will get goals, but Griezmann's all round play will be better even if he isn't a true 9.
3. And of course, that we need Rakitic for La Liga... but you've already done a quick 180 degrees on that one.

But my workhorse theory was due to crazy ideas of majority of people here how: 3 light midfielders is the way to go in a CL, since you know, we won once that way, when we had the best 2 midfielders ever.
In all other combinations, light midfield duo or trio led to a group stage elimination, far worse tragedies than Anfield and Rome.

This is an absolute myth that you created in your mind about the forum's views on our midfield just so that you could always debate "you vs the forum". I actually created a poll about our midfield last season and only 8.4% of the forum voted for 3 light technical midfielders go look back at it yourself, was created in March 2019. Those 8.4% actually included Frenkie in there too, it was Arthur-Frenkie-Alena and Arthur-Frenkie-Puig, so still not completely small and technical.

Link is here: http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/15655-Midfield-Next-season

Other mistakes, probably since I don't think that EV is the worst coach ever?
And faith in Ivan Lampard Rakitic. But as explained, that was only in a response to ideas to Arthur as a the next Xavi and how a sterile midfield who will just pass sideway passes is the answer for a CL.
Oh, and before he came here, I had faith in Cou, since he was a world class player. Silly me.
But after 3-4 matches, I stopped commenting in his topic because 10s of questions emerged and my hype for him came into a serious doubt.


Now compare those "mistakes" to:
1. I have said that Dembele is dumb after 2 matches and that he will never gonna make it here
2. Malcom, Crystal Palace level
3. Denis, I have said after 2 matches that he is the worst player in our squad
4. Semedo, I was among the first who said that he is braindead in attack
5. Mina, after two weeks a few of us said: there is probably a strong reason why a guy is nowhere near coach's plans

So, except workhorses being murdered at Anfield, what were the mistakes?
Regarding Lampard vs Arthur, hold your breath and wait whether the new Xavi will ever get even close to a career of Raki.

These aren't as bolder claims as your other ones. Dembele you got right when a lot of fans had hope for him so well done but Malcom, Mina, Denis..... cmon 90% of Barca fans must knew they were never going to make it, it's not like some magic crystal ball prediction you have made which is against the general view of the forum lol

So, basically, you are saying: whoever will play in midfield, we will win EITHER way, since Messi will save us.
But then, why on Earth:
1. playing Raki in midfield and Messi saving a day against Getafe=is a bad and cancerous thing
2. playing Arthur in midfield and Messi saving a day against Getafe=is awesome thing. Barca's DNA. EV is good. This is how we should play.
Basically, they both won't do anything to contribute a win, but playing one of them is awesome and exciting, and playing the other is cancerous and a reason to shut down a TV.

You sound like Kathy Newman in that Jordan Peterson debate "So basically you are saying"....

You are literally quoting what you said for ages about us fielding any midfield would still win us La Liga.

Nope and nope, i've said multiple times, Rakitic is fine for La Liga... Arthur is fine too. You are getting a bit overexcited there and exaggerating, find me a quote similar to where I said Rakitic in midfield against a weaker team in La Liga would be a bad and cancerous thing, stop lying.

** Arthur's videos where he was bad last season are gone from Youtube now.
So, I can't post too many videos now to prove points from above.
The only match left is: Valencia in a CDR final:
Now, look at this video AFTER Valencia scored, at 0:1 and 0:2.
In those moments, we didn't need press resistance anymore and we played against a bus.
Now look at that beautiful and creative football which Arthur is offering once when we need goals:

Minute 22, 0:1: backpass to Pique, not even looking towards the box
Minute 22, 0:1: sidepas to Raki, not even looking towards the box. Only looking how NOT to lose the ball no matter what, as if he is playing a World final in rondos and the winner will be the one who will pass the ball till death.
Minute 24, 0:1: clueless in the box, plays a backpass to Semedo and losing the ball.
Minute 24, 0:1: tried a backpass to Coutinho. He was fouled by 2 players.
Minute 26, 0:1: sideway pass to Semedo, far from the box and action.
Minute 26, 0:1: sideway pass to another fullback, Alba.
Minute 31, 0:1: lost the ball in our half.
Minute 41, 0:2: pass to Alba. He played sideways. He almost never play through the middle to attackers.
Minute 43, 0:2: the same again. He is not even looking towards the box. He is passing sideways to Alba and saying: please, you try something. I will never try anything around the box. I will just give the ball to you.
Minute 45, 0:2: surprise, surprise, again, he is not even looking towards the box. He is passing to a safest option: Alba again.

So, basically, after 0:1, he touched the ball 10 times, and NOT A SINGLE TIME moved the ball CLOSER to the box and action.
His every solution, idea and pass is: look for the player who is not marked by anyone and who will SURELY not lose the ball
Which is the most often: Busi, Pique, Alba or Semedo.

I mean, passing safely is not a bad thing.
But when you are losing 0:1 or 0:2, you can't pass safely all the time.
You need risk, vertical runs towards the box (Bob), vertical passes towards the box (more or less any player except Arthur), shots towards goal (Rafinha, Raki, Vidal, Alena, Bob).
And this pattern, how he plays is repeating during his whole career till now.
The same happened in a spring in all easier matches when he was subbed and when the score was 0:0 in the 2nd half.
Since he is useless when we need to attack and score and when we have only 20-30 minutes to do that.

Now, if you look back at his career, in what type of matches he thrived?
1. Copa Libertadores=crazy kung fu matches with opponents running and tackling like headless chicken
2. Copa America=the same story
3. Barca: matches against Real, Tottenham, Sevilla
= again, 50:50 matches against strong opponents where they are running at him

Now, can you name more than 2 matches at Camp Nou against Mickey Mouse opponents where he was awesome?
= I can't

And then, we go back to WHY I have said that even Ivan Lampard Rakitic is more useful against weak teams.
But we will go back to a mighty reply: but but but, Arthur would be better against Liverpool.

You guys are hyping a player (the most promising young midfielder in the world, lol) who is useful in 5 matches per season.
Or when we lead 2:0 and we need to kill the match with sterile possession and safe passes.

My argument was that if I had to choose between Rakitic being a La Liga AND CL starter (because let's face it if he starts in La Liga, Valverde will start him in CL) vs Arthur being a starter in La Liga and CL i'd choose Arthur 100%, the reason for that is because I believe that we could win La Liga with Arthur in the team despite his lack of attacking output because we dominate that competition and have Messi (This was your views until recently) but risking Rakitic in CL again is suicide.

 

[Alik]

We've had this convo before though and you have changed your tone completely. You said where was our attacking output going to come from without Rakitic and that we NEEDED him in 90% of games, now you are saying we don't because we have Roberto, so all those long paragraphs and stats you wrote defending him were pointless in the end lol even with Arthur's lack of attacking output if he was starting for us in La Liga I still believe we would win it, we just dominate that competition with Messi.

This.

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] if you put that kind of effort into trying to understand football tactics, and not posting context-less numbers and blaming players all the time, you'd be the best poster around here. But alas, you're not. A shame. You have the passion for football imo, but it's directed in all the wrong areas. The best things about football analysis is not to find out how many xG whatever key passes Y made or how many back passes X made, but to try to figure out why things happen in football the way they do. For that you simply need extensive tactical knowledge. You lack even a minimum understanding of even the most basic terms. Otherwise you're one of the best posters around here, but because you care so little about the tactical aspect of the game, every single issue in a team for you is explained in a very basic, simple way: this player is not good. He is either not strong, passes too much backwards, or whatever flaws you find in him.

Why for example Xavi is one step away from being sold to Bayern in 2008, and 10 months later he is a treble winner and the best midfielder in the world bar none? What changed in the process? Xavi surely didn't. What changed is Guardiola. And why was Guardiola capable of unlocking the maximum level of Xavi?

In page 323 I provided clear answers to these 'back & lateral passes' issue in the case of possession based players like Arthur. A possession based player will always recirculate the ball when no good pass option is available. But it is not his fault that these pass options don't exist. It's the manager's fault, who must develop a system where a pressed player on the ball needs to have several pass options around him. If he doesn't, and that happens time and time again, then it is clearly a managerial failure.

Why is it that your superb midfield of Busi, Rakitic and Vidal, without Arthur, managed by a good manager according to you was absolutely torn apart by a Liverpool missing their best players?

 

[xXKonan]

It's like people forgot how good Arthur was last season when he was fit and how he massively helped get our poor Midfield up to standard.

Sure he has some flaws but the crap I've seen in the past couple of pages is truly some revisionist shit.

 

[Andrew M]

Wouldn't be surprised if he was sent on loan to Napoli one day with option to buy

 

[Vilarrubi]

It's like people forgot how good Arthur was last season when he was fit and how he massively helped get our poor Midfield up to standard.

Sure he has some flaws but the crap I've seen in the past couple of pages is truly some revisionist shit.

Exactly, with him in the team our midfield looked way better and he didn't lose his place because he wasn't good enough and become "5th choice" as BBZ said. He got injured at the start of February and was out for nearly a month, in that time we got some good results against Madrid (Copa/League) so when he was fit again Valverde decided to stick with Raki-Busi-Vidal which ended up being our downfall and resulting in the Anfield humiliation.

 

[Zidane82]

Wouldn't be surprised if he was sent on loan to Napoli one day with option to buy

That would be crazy !

Soon after he joined us he fitted in seamlessly and people were saying how he reminded them of Xavi !!

Arthur with FDJ is the future

 

[xXKonan]

Exactly, with him in the team our midfield looked way better and he didn't lose his place because he wasn't good enough and become "5th choice" as BBZ said. He got injured at the start of February and was out for nearly a month, in that time we got some good results against Madrid (Copa/League) so when he was fit again Valverde decided to stick with Raki-Busi-Vidal which ended up being our downfall and resulting in the Anfield humiliation.

That game is an important lesson in how important a press resistant Midfielder really is.

Pointless having guys who are only good at running around if they cannot hold onto the ball when being pressed.

 

[DonAndres]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] if you put that kind of effort into trying to understand football tactics, and not posting context-less numbers and blaming players all the time, you'd be the best poster around here. But alas, you're not. A shame. You have the passion for football imo, but it's directed in all the wrong areas. The best things about football analysis is not to find out how many xG whatever key passes Y made or how many back passes X made, but to try to figure out why things happen in football the way they do. For that you simply need extensive tactical knowledge. You lack even a minimum understanding of even the most basic terms. Otherwise you're one of the best posters around here, but because you care so little about the tactical aspect of the game, every single issue in a team for you is explained in a very basic, simple way: this player is not good. He is either not strong, passes too much backwards, or whatever flaws you find in him.

Why for example Xavi is one step away from being sold to Bayern in 2008, and 10 months later he is a treble winner and the best midfielder in the world bar none? What changed in the process? Xavi surely didn't. What changed is Guardiola. And why was Guardiola capable of unlocking the maximum level of Xavi?

In page 323 I provided clear answers to these 'back & lateral passes' issue in the case of possession based players like Arthur. A possession based player will always recirculate the ball when no good pass option is available. But it is not his fault that these pass options don't exist. It's the manager's fault, who must develop a system where a pressed player on the ball needs to have several pass options around him. If he doesn't, and that happens time and time again, then it is clearly a managerial failure.

Why is it that your superb midfield of Busi, Rakitic and Vidal, without Arthur, managed by a good manager according to you was absolutely torn apart by a Liverpool missing their best players?

I do agree with you, but if BBZ were to even remotely understand things like xG, xG buildup, key passes, etc. it'd be a massive improvement lol. It's not just the stats but the adamantly horrendous use of them that makes his walls of text so worthless.

Well that and shockingly, utterly embarrassing statements like this:

You guys will mention Liverpool, the strongest team in the world...
But we were playing extremely fast against Napoli and Betis lately.

Now, if you look back at his career, in what type of matches he thrived?
1. Copa Libertadores=crazy kung fu matches with opponents running and tackling like headless chicken
2. Copa America=the same story
3. Barca: matches against Real, Tottenham, Sevilla
= again, 50:50 matches against strong opponents where they are running at him

Now, can you name more than 2 matches at Camp Nou against Mickey Mouse opponents where he was awesome?
= I can't

And then, we go back to WHY I have said that even Ivan Lampard Rakitic is more useful against weak teams.
But we will go back to a mighty reply: but but but, Arthur would be better against Liverpool.

Seriously, this shit reads like a satire piece from someone trying to make fun of BBZ But he's actually 100% serious and convinced himself that Arthur sucks because he doesn't dominate minnows but instead shows up against the best teams in the world. He is so entrenched in his hate for Arthur that he's willing to COMPLETELY destroy his credibility with quotes like this that make no sense at all lmao. Fair play.

What's even worse is that I don't think he's making this Lampard/Rakitic statement ironically, I think he actually believes that what Rakitic provides is some kind of homage to Lampard's high goalscoring/attacking style lmfao. Because of 2 preseason goals.

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], I took the first marked minute you used in your comment to justify your Arthur bashing, and to me it's just unacceptable how you can completely disregard extremely poor tactics, lack of support for player on the ball, lack of teammate access, lack of runs into space, lack of 3rd man runs all together, to completely bash a player whose role in this team needs all of the mentioned parameters to be fulfilled.

So,

1) Min 22, back pass to Pique. Correct. Let's analyse why does that happen. For you, Arthur is a backpasser. For me & many others, Arthur is often found in situations where he can't continue the play in a proactive way. He simply does not have any viable follow-up options. This happens because... VALVERDE IS AN AVERAGE MANAGER WITH A WEAK POSSESSION GAME DEVOID OF ANY SORT OF RISK. WHEN THERE IS NO RISK, THERE IS NO REWARD.

So, when you do not have good options to pass the ball, the situation of Arthur here, you either:

a) give a ballsy pass, which is very very likely to result in a counter attack due to the poor shape and lack of options.
b) simply stay on the ball and wait for more options, which is actually a very recommended solution if you are not pressed into making a decision very fast (actually in possession football it is useful to sometime make a pause and attract pressing so you can release in space to players making runs). Unfortunately here, Arthur is also pressed.
c) try a dribble Messi style vs 2-3 opponents.
d) pass to the open man, even it is a negative pass so you can keep possession and initiate a fresh cycle of play.

Even fucking Xavi, the legend himself would go for d) 90 times out of 100.

Let's look at the picture:

The situation on the field is this. Valencia are playing a very narrow 4-4-2, with 2 banks of 4 playing close as to not allow players to penetrate and appear between the lines. The two forwards with very good workrate are aggressive and try to stop the quality of our build-up while pressuring the players on the ball.

Arthur is on the flank with his view facing inside. From the get go, there is very limited chance of sustaining a good attack down the flank.

Everyone else is far except for Alba and Coutinho which are well guarded by as many as 3 Valencia players + 1 extra player nearby. In the whole left flank the situation is actually 6 vs 3 for Valencia. Now, a 6 vs 3 might be do-able if you have peak 2015 Neymar (there's a thing called qualitative superiority, peak lightning fast Neymar vs 2 players is actually often a duel with good chances of success), or if you're playing against Reus or Alcorcon. Not if you're playing against a CL team and if you have sluggish Coutinho there in the worst form of his life.

Ok, so we've established the flank attack is dead before it even begun. Not even BBZ himself could claim otherwise.

Let's see our options for a central run, either near or more in depth. Now we have something. We notice a serious gap between the RCB and the LCB of Valencia. A run there would cause an issue, and what do you see?... there's actually an opening for a play between the lines there (that green colored space). But... there's no Barca players attacking that good workable space. Not even fucking one player. Nobody who sees that weakened position. Nobody doing a run there. Trying to speculate the slight positional error from Valencia. Trust me, there are always errors in defensive coverage of spaces.

But what about the striker? Hmm, Messi is guarded by 4 players, doesn't do much to get away. It's quite hard to escape 4 players. Let's see how these players mark Messi. 2 Valencia players stay ahead of Messi but on the same trajectory, basically hiding Messi from Arthur's eyesight (this is called cover shadow marking, since you don't actually mark the player, but you still block a potential pass to him by standing between the player you're supposed to block and the ball). The other 2 stay closer to Messi, basically marking him in the traditional sense. Safe to say by the looks of it Messi is quite hard to be played on in this case.

But, surely, the other two midfielders in this case must take on advanced roles, and make a difference. Especially Rakitic since he is such a good scorer and good in offense. Well, Rakitic is somewhere up there 40m off the ball between two players. Standing like he usually does. Since moving off the ball is... hm... an issue with him, safe to say he's out too. He usually moves away from traffic, not into traffic. Here he hides like he usually does. That's the player he is. Don't count on him looking to play in tight spaces. He hates it. You have seen what he can do in these circumstances vs Liverpool. Horrorshow.

His partner, Sergio Busquets Burgos according to his wikipedia page, is also out of the game. How is he out? Simple. He is marked out by a player of Valencia who now only blocks Busquets by interposing between Busi and the ball (same cover shadow stuff we covered), but also has the liberty and the luxury - due to smart positioning and smart tactics by the Valencia manager - of pressing Arthur at the same time. It is hard to mark moving targets with cover shadow because every slight move the potential target makes this way of marking becomes very ineffective. But it works wonders against managers who don't use off the ball movement, and against slow players with poor movement. I'd include Valverde, Busi, and Rakitic as the perfect group of manager and players to effectively use this type of marking against.


What does this Valencia player achieve by marking Busi out by actually moving away from him? Well, he makes sure that Arthur can't stay too much on the ball and look for a possible run. He has to release, commit into a crazy dribbling stunt, or pass the ball to Harry Kane up there who could wrestle with the Valencia players and we could create a chance out of nothing. Except we don't have Harry Kane. The only presence near the box is 1.69m Messi surrounded by 4 Valencia players.

But... wait a minute... somebody is up there too. Who is that guy far far far on the right. Oh, it's Roberto! But is it really him, he's so far he might as well been back in Barcelona. It must be Roberto, Semedo is a bit different looking. But why is Roberto there, and not Semedo? Where is Semedo btw. Who the actual fuck is all of Semedo, Pique and Lenglet guarding? Every player of Valencia is almost in their own 35 meters? Why isn't Semedo occupying that right flank and allowing Roberto to drop more to the middle?

So, yea, BBZ, it's Arthur's fault for making a back pass here.

That's only your first example. Imagine the rest.