Arthur

[JohnN]

Oh, I would even believe that Rakitic spreads shit about him to his media friends at this point.
On a more serious note, Dembele has nothing in common with Arthur. The first one has had many problems, all of which were officially acknowledged by the club.
Nothing has been acknowledged by the club about Arthur. Only tabloid rumors and people jumping to conclusions. On top of that, most of the things he is accused of are unimportant.
He went to a party? No shit.. I thought all young footballers spend their evenings going to church.

 

[BBZ8800]

Oh, I would even believe that Rakitic spreads shit about him to his media friends at this point.
On a more serious note, Dembele has nothing in common with Arthur. The first one has had many problems, all of which were officially acknowledged by the club.
Nothing has been acknowledged by the club about Arthur. Only tabloid rumors and people jumping to conclusions. On top of that, most of the things he is accused of are unimportant.
He went to a party? No shit.. I thought all young footballers spend their evenings going to church.

Why would a club ackowledge these problems in public?

Imagine if Arthur has STDs.
And if a club would say that: a player would look bad in the eyes of fans, other teams wouldn't be too interested in him, a board would look incompetent for buying party animals and a player might feel let down by a club by going public.

So, even if every incident is true, why would a club give official statements about it, unless if you reach Dembele's level of unprofessionalism where you have to make some statement and try to make a final attempt to change your player's behavior.

You just picked to live in a denial in this moment.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Can you give a few valid results WHY would media shit on player for no reason?
Last season, fans here had the same conspiracy theories about Dembele.
About how media hates him for no reason or because he is black.
What is with Arthur then, they hate him because he is "too white"?

Dembele, on the other hand had:
1. history of injuries
2. not talking to a medical staff about leg pains
3. not knowing how to stretch properly
4. eating in McDonalds
5. fired his personal chef whom Barca gave him
6. living unhealthy, not sleeping at night and playing Ps4 with those guys who live with him (another wtf)
7. being late on trainings
8. not being able to learn Catalan

With Arthur, he went into a full party/full retard mode in the last 2-3 Months:
1. partying with Neymar again
2. another scandal with being out late at night and posting pics about it on media
3. scandal with smoking
4. STD scandal
5. snowboarding twice while being injured
6. fighting with Messi

I don't get it. What is a logic with these conspiracy theories?
= media sits down in a dark and think: let's pick a random player from our team and invent 100s problems about him so that he could lose a place in a team, lose his price and gets sold (insert an evil emoji).
Also, how come that media invented stories about Arthur, and not about Frenkie (who btw leads a perfectly professional and a healthy life and is able to play 90 minutes twice a week, and is never injured).

This conspiracy theory makes absolutely zero sense.
The most logical answer is: if media is posting bad about Dembele and Arthur, you can bet that they have made 10s of similar things in the last couple of Months, and media/coach/staff have finally lost nerves and some of the problems went public.

Out of these only the snowboarding thing stands out to me. The rest doesn't say much without any context of how regularly it happens or how it affects the player. Smoking or partying once in a while isn't really something to worry about.

Going snowboarding as a footballer is pretty dumb though, especially during the season and in his situation.

 

[devo901]

to be honest - it does not really matter, if is not playing and training because of STD or a depression or because of his religion - he can't play and his skill will be missed in el classico.

 

[KingLeo10]

Can you give a few valid results WHY would media shit on player for no reason?
Last season, fans here had the same conspiracy theories about Dembele.
About how media hates him for no reason or because he is black.
What is with Arthur then, they hate him because he is "too white"?

Dembele, on the other hand had:
1. history of injuries
2. not talking to a medical staff about leg pains
3. not knowing how to stretch properly
4. eating in McDonalds
5. fired his personal chef whom Barca gave him
6. living unhealthy, not sleeping at night and playing Ps4 with those guys who live with him (another wtf)
7. being late on trainings
8. not being able to learn Catalan

With Arthur, he went into a full party/full retard mode in the last 2-3 Months:
1. partying with Neymar again
2. another scandal with being out late at night and posting pics about it on media
3. scandal with smoking
4. STD scandal
5. snowboarding twice while being injured
6. fighting with Messi

I don't get it. What is a logic with these conspiracy theories?
= media sits down in a dark and think: let's pick a random player from our team and invent 100s problems about him so that he could lose a place in a team, lose his price and gets sold (insert an evil emoji).
Also, how come that media invented stories about Arthur, and not about Frenkie (who btw leads a perfectly professional and a healthy life and is able to play 90 minutes twice a week, and is never injured).

This conspiracy theory makes absolutely zero sense.
The most logical answer is: if media is posting bad about Dembele and Arthur, you can bet that they have made 10s of similar things in the last couple of Months, and media/coach/staff have finally lost nerves and some of the problems went public.

Look at you doing backflips over here while saying nothing in the Ivan "finished" Rakitic's thread for yesterday's disasterclass.

Vintage

 

[BBZ8800]

Look at you doing backflips over here while saying nothing in the Ivan "finished" Rakitic's thread for yesterday's disasterclass.

Vintage

What's there to say?
He was bad.

But you will say that a team was bad because of him, imo the whole team played like idiots. Messi, Mats, Alba...

Also, EV played him for 5-6 matches in a row.
He played for no reason against Inter, while Busi and Frenkie were rested.

We do agree that he is worse version of himself when he is tired.
Pressing teams are not teams who suit him.
Even less so when he is tired.

On the other hand, other starters were rested and played as equally as horrible.
Fatigue can't be their excuse.

Plus, we were robbed by the ref.

He will play tired again against RM.
Vidal is too wild and unpredictable.
Arthur is who knows where.
Alena is a so-so raw kid.

 

[JohnN]

What's there to say?
He was bad.

But you will say that a team was bad because of him, imo the whole team played like idiots. Messi, Mats, Alba...

Also, EV played him for 5-6 matches in a row.
He played for no reason against Inter, while Busi and Frenkie were rested.

We do agree that he is worse version of himself when he is tired.
Pressing teams are not teams who suit him.
Even less so when he is tired.

On the other hand, other starters were rested and played as equally as horrible.
Fatigue can't be their excuse.

Plus, we were robbed by the ref.

He will play tired again against RM.
Vidal is too wild and unpredictable.
Arthur is who knows where.
Alena is a so-so raw kid.

Alena is not so raw. He would be better for this match and everyone apart from EV knew that.
Also EV playing rakitic to the ground is nothing new, again it all comes back to him not being good enough to coach Barca. With lineup decisions like this again and again, one can only imagine his tactical ones.

 

[BBZ8800]

Alena is not so raw. He would be better for this match and everyone apart from EV knew that.
Also EV playing rakitic to the ground is nothing new, again it all comes back to him not being good enough to coach Barca. With lineup decisions like this again and again, one can only imagine his tactical ones.

Oh, we have Alena wave now.

At first, people wanted to see Frenkie-Arthur duo.
When Arthur disappeared or when he was rested, people wanted Vidal over Rakitic, because Vidal brings something different.
When Vidal dissppointed, people wanted Rakitic.
Majority even said that he could be better than even Busi.
After 1 bad game, people turned to a new savior: Alena.

Do you understand a pattern?
= our ALL midfielders except Frenkie are so-so.
And whenever a coach plays one of them, his flaws get exposed eventually.
And then people turn to a next guy in line as the next savior and forget his flaws.
But after 3 matches, they see his flaws again and then turn to a next guy again.

About Alena, his good side is that he is dribbling, taking on players and making risks.
But that is more less it.

In defense he is useless.
In attack, he is a turnover machine when he plays for 90 minutes.
Positionally, he is chaotic.
He is one footed.
And in spite of his running and dribbling, usually nothing happens when he has a ball in his feet.

For now he is a lot of show, nice touches and running, but zero impact either in attack or defense.
Basically, majority of our midfielders are of the same mould currently.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Or jack of 2 skills, and master of none in other 90% of skills.

And again, when you say: Alena would have been more suited for this game, you mean on press resistance, right?
Fine, we agree.
But since 90% of our team was bad and we were losing balls left and right, there is a high chance that we would be without possession either way.
And without possession, Alena is again useless in defense.

Further, I don't get this part: as if we crumbled due to Rakitic.
If one player is bad, why couldn't Frenkie-Busi-Alba-Griezz-Suarez combine on the left?
They couldn't make 3 passes in a row.
On the right: Roberto-Suarez-Messi also.
Did Raki's presence force all teammates to play like on Anfield?

Also, in the last 15 minutes with Vidal-Alena-Frenkie, did we create more than 1 logical action?
We were losing balls left and right with horrible touches and bad decisions.
And when the ball finally managed to come to Messi, then Messi managed to singlehandeadly ruin a few actions in a row.

Was Raki's ghost (even when he was not playing) guilty for us ruining every single action on Anoeta?
If you want a delusion and a simple scapegoat which will resolve all problems=say yes.
If you want a real, complicated answer with lots of problems and issues=the answer is no.

 

[mc_lovin]

Alena really isnt all that. But that doesnt mean that a fit Arthur shouldnt be first choice over Rakitic.

 

[JohnN]

Oh, we have Alena wave now.

At first, people wanted to see Frenkie-Arthur duo.
When Arthur disappeared or when he was rested, people wanted Vidal over Rakitic, because Vidal brings something different.
When Vidal dissppointed, people wanted Rakitic.
Majority even said that he could be better than even Busi.
After 1 bad game, people turned to a new savior: Alena.

Do you understand a pattern?
= our ALL midfielders except Frenkie are so-so.
And whenever a coach plays one of them, his flaws get exposed eventually.
And then people turn to a next guy in line as the next savior and forget his flaws.
But after 3 matches, they see his flaws again and then turn to a next guy again.

About Alena, his good side is that he is dribbling, taking on players and making risks.
But that is more less it.

In defense he is useless.
In attack, he is a turnover machine when he plays for 90 minutes.
Positionally, he is chaotic.
He is one footed.
And in spite of his running and dribbling, usually nothing happens when he has a ball in his feet.

For now he is a lot of show, nice touches and running, but zero impact either in attack or defense.
Basically, majority of our midfielders are of the same mould currently.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Or jack of 2 skills, and master of none in other 90% of skills.

And again, when you say: Alena would have been more suited for this game, you mean on press resistance, right?
Fine, we agree.
But since 90% of our team was bad and we were losing balls left and right, there is a high chance that we would be without possession either way.
And without possession, Alena is again useless in defense.

Further, I don't get this part: as if we crumbled due to Rakitic.
If one player is bad, why couldn't Frenkie-Busi-Alba-Griezz-Suarez combine on the left?
They couldn't make 3 passes in a row.
On the right: Roberto-Suarez-Messi also.
Did Raki's presence force all teammates to play like on Anfield?

Also, in the last 15 minutes with Vidal-Alena-Frenkie, did we create more than 1 logical action?
We were losing balls left and right with horrible touches and bad decisions.
And when the ball finally managed to come to Messi, then Messi managed to singlehandeadly ruin a few actions in a row.

Was Raki's ghost (even when he was not playing) guilty for us ruining every single action on Anoeta?
If you want a delusion and a simple scapegoat which will resolve all problems=say yes.
If you want a real, complicated answer with lots of problems and issues=the answer is no.

I never claimed Raki was the problem this game. He shouldn't have been used in my opinion but that is another story. If I put more blame on a player for this result that would be Mats for this one.

But my claim is that given EV's lineup decisions, one cannot help but feel that his tactical decisions are not good either.

About Alena, I don't think anyone rates him higher than his level or considers him a saviour. Given that Arthur was not fit for this game though, Alena was the next best logical choice. Except if Bob was moved in Rakis place and Semedo played as a RB, but that may have not been possible as Semedo just came back from injury.

All in all, from what I saw this game, we still struggle to get out from the back when the other team presses too hard. The team should be working on this 100% of the time in training, because after we break that press we aren't that bad.

 

[BBZ8800]

Alena really isnt all that. But that doesnt mean that a fit Arthur shouldnt be first choice over Rakitic.

Can you for a moment remove Barca's glasses are reply like a neutral football fan?

Forget sci fi scenarios.
Arthur when fit... he could turn into a next Dembele who will never be fit. And when he will be fit, he will be raw and tired.
About Alena, last season when he played more, he had:
0,4 tackles per match
0,1 interceptions
0 clearances
0 blocks

That is 0,5 defensive contributions per match.
Raki, Frenkie, Busi have around 3-4 contributikns per match and way more tracking back.

In attack, Alena had 0,5 key passes per match.
This season 0.

So, can you actually explain what is Alena currently bringing except dribbles and some press resistance?
The same problems which we had with Frenkie-Arthur.
Except that Alena is more attacking minded.

A guy who can't play for youth Spanish NT teams anymore is suddenly a savior of Barca's midfield.
Sounds logical.

Or: you guys are desperate and you are overrsting insanely skills of any guy who is not playing.
Now after 4 weeks of Arthur not playing, people will probably forget how bad he was in defending also.

Except a preseason against Napoli, can you name 2 more games in the last 12 months where Alena was very good on a field?

 

[BBZ8800]

All in all, from what I saw this game, we still struggle to get out from the back when the other team presses too hard. The team should be working on this 100% of the time in training, because after we break that press we aren't that bad.

True.
But look at my view:
With Raki-Busi, our strength against press in build up is like 3 out of 10.
But when we lose the ball and defend, we are okish.
Let's say 7,5/10.

Then, someone could say: without Raki, we will fly.
And then, you put Arthur or Alena.
And what happens?
Our build up grows from 3/10 to 6/10.
But we still suck.
You improved in midfield, but CBs, Alba, Roberto, Suarez and sometimes Messi still lose balls left and right.
And in defense, we drop from 7,5 to 4/10.

So, with Raki you get bad build up and good defense.
With new guys you get better build up and bad defense.
You are trading one problem for the another.

Further, you guys constantly say how Raki shouldn't play against high pressing teams.
Fine.
What have we learned this season?
Bilbao away, without him. Frenkie-Bob-Alena.
We were equally as horrible in all areas.
Dortmund away with Frenkie-Arthur, we have set a world record of zero created chances in 90 minutes. Dortmund created 10 against Frenkie-Arthur defense.
Inter home, Frenkie-Arthur again. We should have been 0:4 down after 30 minutes.
We were totally outplayed even at home.
Which rarely happened with Busi-Raki in the past.

So seriously, do we have any actual proofs in bigger matches that a team plays better without Busi-Raki?
I can't see those proofs.
It is only a theory and wishful thinking from fans.
Close to: anything would be better than this... which we see on other topics often.

Reality is that Busi-Raki bring one set of virtues and flaws.
And Arthur or Alena bring improvement in some areas and a downgrade in other areas.
Till now, NONE of those two lineups played well against pressing teams.

Maybe the problems are deeper than Raki-Arthur-Alena?
Like slow Cbs, horrible Alba, Roberto, 2 cfs who don't defend.
And we will just struggle against press in all combinations with a current rooster?

 

[Messigician]

True.
But look at my view:
With Raki-Busi, our strength against press in build up is like 3 out of 10.
But when we lose the ball and defend, we are okish.
Let's say 7,5/10.

Then, someone could say: without Raki, we will fly.
And then, you put Arthur or Alena.
And what happens?
Our build up grows from 3/10 to 6/10.
But we still suck.
You improved in midfield, but CBs, Alba, Roberto, Suarez and sometimes Messi still lose balls left and right.
And in defense, we drop from 7,5 to 4/10.

So, with Raki you get bad build up and good defense.
With new guys you get better build up and bad defense.
You are trading one problem for the another.

Further, you guys constantly say how Raki shouldn't play against high pressing teams.
Fine.
What have we learned this season?
Bilbao away, without him. Frenkie-Bob-Alena.
We were equally as horrible in all areas.
Dortmund away with Frenkie-Arthur, we have set a world record of zero created chances in 90 minutes. Dortmund created 10 against Frenkie-Arthur defense.
Inter home, Frenkie-Arthur again. We should have been 0:4 down after 30 minutes.
We were totally outplayed even at home.
Which rarely happened with Busi-Raki in the past.

So seriously, do we have any actual proofs in bigger matches that a team plays better without Busi-Raki?
I can't see those proofs.
It is only a theory and wishful thinking from fans.
Close to: anything would be better than this... which we see on other topics often.

Reality is that Busi-Raki bring one set of virtues and flaws.
And Arthur or Alena bring improvement in some areas and a downgrade in other areas.
Till now, NONE of those two lineups played well agsinst pressing teams.

Maybe the problems are deeper than Raki-Arthur-Alena?
Like slow Cbs, horrible Alba, Roberto, 2 cfs who don't defend.

Rakitic yes, Busquets though? Wtf does he bring to the table?

I would rather something like De Jong Rakitic Vidal

Busquets is finished

 

[JohnN]

True.
But look at my view:
With Raki-Busi, our strength against press in build up is like 3 out of 10.
But when we lose the ball and defend, we are okish.
Let's say 7,5/10.

Then, someone could say: without Raki, we will fly.
And then, you put Arthur or Alena.
And what happens?
Our build up grows from 3/10 to 6/10.
But we still suck.
You improved in midfield, but CBs, Alba, Roberto, Suarez and sometimes Messi still lose balls left and right.
And in defense, we drop from 7,5 to 4/10.

So, with Raki you get bad build up and good defense.
With new guys you get better build up and bad defense.
You are trading one problem for the another.

Further, you guys constantly say how Raki shouldn't play against high pressing teams.
Fine.
What have we learned this season?
Bilbao away, without him. Frenkie-Bob-Alena.
We were equally as horrible in all areas.
Dortmund away with Frenkie-Arthur, we have set a world record of zero created chances in 90 minutes. Dortmund created 10 against Frenkie-Arthur defense.
Inter home, Frenkie-Arthur again. We should have been 0:4 down after 30 minutes.
We were totally outplayed even at home.
Which rarely happened with Busi-Raki in the past.

So seriously, do we have any actual proofs in bigger matches that a team plays better without Busi-Raki?
I can't see those proofs.
It is only a theory and wishful thinking from fans.
Close to: anything would be better than this... which we see on other topics often.

Reality is that Busi-Raki bring one set of virtues and flaws.
And Arthur or Alena bring improvement in some areas and a downgrade in other areas.
Till now, NONE of those two lineups played well against pressing teams.

Maybe the problems are deeper than Raki-Arthur-Alena?
Like slow Cbs, horrible Alba, Roberto, 2 cfs who don't defend.
And we will just struggle against press in all combinations with a current rooster?

Messi missing balls left and right and messing up attacks happens one in a million so it shouldn't be considered a trend. He actually lost on two dribbling actions, not even clear chances or something so let's move on.

Also, our two attackers, Messi and Suarez press decently, not aggressively of course due to age, but still we have scored goals because of their pressing this very season.

Inconsistency is a problem with our newer guys that is why one senior should always anchor the midfield with them. The first games, against Inter and BvB, took place when Messi and Suarez were either out or not fully fit yet and Griezmann had just walked in a new team. So not a good comparison.

I'd say the core of the problem is build up and attacking patterns. Perhaps these are limited by our now limited midfielder's capacity to do that. But teams with actually lesser players manage to do that better. We should improve in that department no matter who plays.

I agree that since we don't seem to have a trio of world class, top of their game and in form midfielders we should opt for balance. Perhaps what would work in tougher grounds with teams that will come at us, is moving FDJ to the DM area and put Arthur and Rakitic or Bob in front of him. Busquets might have a killer ball sometimes, but is now too error prone to be trusted. Even further him and Raki are too slow to be considered good defensively against fast players. They might intercept some balls but they get dribbled by like cones, like Alena.
Arthur, FDJ and Bob are actually good at this aspect.

 

[mc_lovin]

Can you for a moment remove Barca's glasses are reply like a neutral football fan?

Forget sci fi scenarios.
Arthur when fit... he could turn into a next Dembele who will never be fit. And when he will be fit, he will be raw and tired.
About Alena, last season when he played more, he had:
0,4 tackles per match
0,1 interceptions
0 clearances
0 blocks

That is 0,5 defensive contributions per match.
Raki, Frenkie, Busi have around 3-4 contributikns per match and way more tracking back.

In attack, Alena had 0,5 key passes per match.
This season 0.

So, can you actually explain what is Alena currently bringing except dribbles and some press resistance?
The same problems which we had with Frenkie-Arthur.
Except that Alena is more attacking minded.

A guy who can't play for youth Spanish NT teams anymore is suddenly a savior of Barca's midfield.
Sounds logical.

Or: you guys are desperate and you are overrsting insanely skills of any guy who is not playing.
Now after 4 weeks of Arthur not playing, people will probably forget how bad he was in defending also.

Except a preseason against Napoli, can you name 2 more games in the last 12 months where Alena was very good on a field?

Why are you answering me with Alena - Im on your team dude, hes a squad player at best. Arthur on the other hand... even you have to admit that Rakitic and him are at least equal, which means Arthur shoudl start. Younger, more energetic and didnt get destroyed two years running. Even the "defensive contribution" is out of the window for Rakitic - we conceded 5 goals the last 3 games with him (to counter your stats with even more useless stats).