Arthur

[Joan]

For the type of football Brazil play... No fucking chance. They hardly if ever play double pivots!

And yes Arthur has been named in their squad before. Didn’t get minutes though.

What's your claim? That Rakitić who starts for Barca wouldn't get a call for Brazilian NT?

Of course he would.

 

[BBZ8800]

Let me get this right. You want to compare getting into the Brazil national team with getting into the Croatian national team? And then to top it all off you put up a youtube compilation of Croatia vs Slovenia and have the audacity to trash talk the Brazilian League. Ok.

Are you still living in 60s of the last century when Brasil was an ultimate world's force?
I mean, Paulinho is a starter for Brasil currently, lol.
So, yeah, Rakitic would play in a current Brasil if they have Paulinho as a starter.

Btw, as someone from Croatia, Rakitic was for years my favorite NT player because he was able to play awesome aged 20, 22, 23, 24 and similar.
He rarely played bad in those early years and he was consistent, unlike for example Modric, who was always extremely hot and cold in an NT team.

I posted a friendly match from 2008 in my last post.
Fine, try this, Euro 2008, Croatia:Germany.
Rakitic was a 20 year old kid back then.
In that match, I remember thinking: wow, this kid will be awesome.
he played very calmly and awesome against mighty Germany.
Again, he was a 20 year old kid.

My point in general is: Rakitic played as a starter at Euros and world cups aged 20.
And he was one of the best players for Croatia back then.
And YET, after 10 years in big clubs, he is STILL considered as an average player for Barca.

But then, people expect Alena, who played only in a 2nd division, and Arthur from a Brasilian league, both with zero experience, to outclass Rakitic.
Btw, I don't think that Rakitic is THAT good for Barca's level.
But I am finding majority of this romantic estimations as beyond crazy.

So, Rakitic:
1. looked awesome aged 20
2. played at Euros and Wcs from the age 20
3. 10 years experience in Europe
= still not good for Barca

Alena/Arthur:
1. 5 and 0 matches in a 1st division
2. zero NT matches for now
3. zero WC/Euros experience for now
= people expect them to be starters in a year or two.
But hey, they have "technical" potential, that is all what matters, right?

I mean, seriously, guys, wtf?
I know that we are sad, desperate and that we all want new kids to appear out of nowhere, but these ideas are really crazy.

And the craziest one out of all: Arthur will bench Raki after 10 matches in Europe.
While in reality, what will happen?
= we will still play with Busi and Raki even in 2020. They will suck, but new kids will suck 10 times more, as always.

when has croatia won 5 world cups? this argument doesn't make sense

Real also won CLs in 60's. They are "irrelevant" in a current era.
But we shit on those titles, just sayin...

 

[MessiCam]

What's your claim? That Rakitić who starts for Barca wouldn't get a call for Brazilian NT?

Of course he would.

Yes, with the quality they have available. He is not competing with Kovacic for place.

 

[Joan]

Yes, with the quality they have available. He is not competing with Kovacic for place.

So Paulinho and Renato Augusto are better than Rakitić? I don't know in what world you live, friend.

Not just that Rakitić would get a call, but he'd also be in the lineup.

We will never know for sure so it's pointless to discuss this.

Arthur being called for Brazil doesn't imply him being better than Rakitić.

 

[DonAK]

Arthur or not, we could do with a proper CM that's better than Rakitic if we are to return to a 433. And for that reason I want a WC CM. Arthur is still a talent although a very promising one.

With a 4231 we need a mobile B2B alongside Busquets.

 

[MessiCam]

Are you still living in 60s of the last century when Brasil was an ultimate world's force?
I mean, Paulinho is a starter for Brasil currently, lol.
So, yeah, Rakitic would play in a current Brasil if they have Paulinho as a starter.

Btw, as someone from Croatia, Rakitic was for years my favorite NT player because he was able to play awesome aged 20, 22, 23, 24 and similar.
He rarely played bad in those early years and he was consistent, unlike for example Modric, who was always extremely hot and cold in an NT team.

I posted a friendly match from 2008 in my last post.
Fine, try this, Euro 2008, Croatia:Germany.
Rakitic was a 20 year old kid back then.
In that match, I remember thinking: wow, this kid will be awesome.
he played very calmly and awesome against mighty Germany.
Again, he was a 20 year old kid.

My point in general is: Rakitic played as a starter at Euros and world cups aged 20.
And he was one of the best players for Croatia back then.
And YET, after 10 years in big clubs, he is STILL considered as an average player for Barca.

But then, people expect Alena, who played only in a 2nd division, and Arthur from a Brasilian league, both with zero experience, to outclass Rakitic.
Btw, I don't think that Rakitic is THAT good for Barca's level.
But I am finding majority of this romantic estimations as beyond crazy.

So, Rakitic:
1. looked awesome aged 20
2. played at Euros and Wcs from the age 20
3. 10 years experience in Europe
= still not good for Barca

Alena/Arthur:
1. 5 and 0 matches in a 1st division
2. zero NT matches for now
3. zero WC/Euros experience for now
= people expect them to be starters in a year or two

I mean, seriously, guys, wtf?
I know that we are sad, desperate and that we all want new kids to appear out of nowhere, but these ideas are really crazy.

And the craziest one out of all: Arthur will bench Raki after 10 matches in Europe.
While in reality, what will happen?
= we will still play with Busi and Raki even in 2020. They will suck, but new kids will suck 10 times more, as always.



Real also won CLs in 60's. They are "irrelevant" in a current era.
But we shit on those titles, just sayin...

You’re the one living in the 60’s. Making up probabilities etc etc based on pools of talent instead of judging each individually.

You can’t just look at a national team player and say, yeah he’s the business. We might as well say that Tshabalala of Kaizer Chiefs (key national team player too and scorer of wonderful World Cup goals) is by default better.

Ok, regarding Arthur, what do I get when he benches Rakitic? Because he will... He will make the Brazil World Cup squad too.

 

[Joan]

If it was as easy to judge each one individually, then there'd be no wrong calls in scouting.

When you judge a player, you can't just look at his moves and tricks, you need to look at the surrounding. That matters a lot.

For your judgment in the first place.

 

[TitoTata]

What's your claim? That Rakitić who starts for Barca wouldn't get a call for Brazilian NT?

Of course he would.

At RB

 

[MessiCam]

So Paulinho and Renato Augusto are better than Rakitić? I don't know in what world you live, friend.

Not just that Rakitić would get a call, but he'd also be in the lineup.

We will never know for sure so it's pointless to discuss this.

Arthur being called for Brazil doesn't imply him being better than Rakitić.

Yes, Paulinho and Renato Augusto are fantastic for Brazil. Don’t be fooled by Valverde fucking over Paulinho by playing him in wide areas for the majority of the season so Rakitic and Suarez could be comfortable. When played as a CM in a 4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1 he is a brute because he makes runs of the strikers movement. Check the Villarreal game for example and any 4-3-3 early season game. Sure he has his limitations but when used correctly is extremely dangerous in attack. Rakitic is the opposite. He is good in defense.

 

[MessiCam]

If it was as easy to judge each one individually, then there'd be no wrong calls in scouting.

When you judge a player, you can't just look at his moves and tricks, you need to look at the surrounding. That matters a lot.

For your judgment in the first place.

So you think scouts use average success rates fabricated by [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] when making assessments? The players individual qualities are assessed in conjunction with the club philosophy. Which is as it should be. Scouts can’t be afraid because a previous talent failed or that because the current incumbent plays for the a certain national team he is untouchable.

A no name Busquets benched Yaya Touré. A key national team player in short order too.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Are you still living in 60s of the last century when Brasil was an ultimate world's force?
I mean, Paulinho is a starter for Brasil currently, lol.
So, yeah, Rakitic would play in a current Brasil if they have Paulinho as a starter.

Btw, as someone from Croatia, Rakitic was for years my favorite NT player because he was able to play awesome aged 20, 22, 23, 24 and similar.
He rarely played bad in those early years and he was consistent, unlike for example Modric, who was always extremely hot and cold in an NT team.

I posted a friendly match from 2008 in my last post.
Fine, try this, Euro 2008, Croatia:Germany.
Rakitic was a 20 year old kid back then.
In that match, I remember thinking: wow, this kid will be awesome.
he played very calmly and awesome against mighty Germany.
Again, he was a 20 year old kid.

My point in general is: Rakitic played as a starter at Euros and world cups aged 20.
And he was one of the best players for Croatia back then.
And YET, after 10 years in big clubs, he is STILL considered as an average player for Barca.

But then, people expect Alena, who played only in a 2nd division, and Arthur from a Brasilian league, both with zero experience, to outclass Rakitic.
Btw, I don't think that Rakitic is THAT good for Barca's level.
But I am finding majority of this romantic estimations as beyond crazy.

So, Rakitic:
1. looked awesome aged 20
2. played at Euros and Wcs from the age 20
3. 10 years experience in Europe
= still not good for Barca

Alena/Arthur:
1. 5 and 0 matches in a 1st division
2. zero NT matches for now
3. zero WC/Euros experience for now
= people expect them to be starters in a year or two.
But hey, they have "technical" potential, that is all what matters, right?

I mean, seriously, guys, wtf?
I know that we are sad, desperate and that we all want new kids to appear out of nowhere, but these ideas are really crazy.

And the craziest one out of all: Arthur will bench Raki after 10 matches in Europe.
While in reality, what will happen?
= we will still play with Busi and Raki even in 2020. They will suck, but new kids will suck 10 times more, as always.



Real also won CLs in 60's. They are "irrelevant" in a current era.
But we shit on those titles, just sayin...

You make it sound like careers always just have one direction and that's constantly improving. I mean what exactly followed after him showing huge talent? Nothing. He was considered average at Schalke and later improved his game at Sevilla so he had Barca quality in his mid/later 20s.

Showing talent and X years of bigger clubs don't make you a world class player by default, there are countless talents out there that showed amazing talent at 18-21 and developed quite good but never reached the level that was predicted based on early hype.

I don't think Rakitic is a bad player, but i don't think it's a good sign he is our only CM. He has a bit of everything but he isn't a playmaker, not that great in defense, not that strong, not very fast, not especially strong in the air etc like he can do a lot of things but nothing really outstanding. That's someone that's always great to have on the squad and Rakitic has class but he shouldn't be our only CM with starter quality, imo the fact that he is our best CM just shows what we did to our midfield

 

[Joan]

So you think scouts use average success rates fabricated by [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] when making assessments? The players individual qualities are assessed in conjunction with the club philosophy. Which is as it should be. Scouts can’t be afraid because a previous talent failed or that because the current incumbent plays for the a certain national team he is untouchable.

A no name Busquets benched Yaya Touré. A key national team player in short order too.

What I claim is that scouts think in terms of the league a player plays in. When you see a promising youngster, you follow him. But the question you must ask yourself is WHY he looks good. You need to find reasons and many of them are related to the league.

For instance, player X has potential, he's one of the best performers in the Brazilian league and he's a DM. SO, why does he look that good besides his talent?
- he has space
- rhythm is slower
- opponents don't press as roughly
- defending is simpler and less effective
Now, what you must do? You need to determine how these (and other) aspects improve his performances, which is not easy.

There are numerous examples of players who looked great and then failed in big clubs.

 

[MessiCam]

What I claim is that scouts think in terms of the league a player plays in. When you see a promising youngster, you follow him. But the question you must ask yourself is WHY he looks good. You need to find reasons and many of them are related to the league.

For instance, player X has potential, he's one of the best performers in the Brazilian league and he's a DM. SO, why does he look that good besides his talent?
- he has space
- rhythm is slower
- opponents don't press as roughly
- defending is simpler and less effective
Now, what you must do? You need to determine how these (and other) aspects improve his performances, which is not easy.

There are numerous examples of players who looked great and then failed in big clubs.

You also have to ask why does he alone stand out in a league filled with many players playing in that same position with the same space, same slower rhythm and the same ineffective defences.

So unlike has been suggested, it’s not just that the league is easy but that his individual talent sets him apart.

I’m also well aware that many fail but I am confident Arthur won’t. He is really special.

 

[Nothanks]

whats the debate here lmfao

rakitic > arthur
brazil > croatia

 

[Joan]

You also have to ask why does he alone stand out in a league filled with many players playing in that same position with the same space, same slower rhythm and the same ineffective defences.

So unlike has been suggested, it’s not just that the league is easy but that his individual talent sets him apart.

I’m also well aware that many fail but I am confident Arthur won’t. He is really special.

True. But the fact that he's the best in the Brazilian league doesn't mean he's good enough for European football.

I don't think BBZ thinks it's only the league, I'm sure he doesn't in fact. But what he often points out is that you or I shouldn't make quick judgments since weaker leagues make it harder to tell.

I like that you're confident. You watch football and I hope you're right.