Joan
Well-known member
Poor Vinicius, gonna end his career this madman.
Arturo Vidal
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Poor Vinicius, gonna end his career this madman.
Devils
Senior Member
The club does lack character.
Sorry but after Roma which was icing on the cake for the previous humiliating CL eliminations to Juve and Atletico, we definitely need something more than these choirboys. Look, I have nothing against Raki, Busi, Iniesta, Roberto, Denis, Rafinha, Thiago etc...I applaud them and some of them are the most technically talented players to ever wear the shirt. They are all respectful, disciplined and well-mannered players.
But they are not killers. And you need killers in your team if you want to be the best. Technical players are important, but you also need the thugs, the aggressors and the people who aren't timid or respectful. That's what Vidal is.
From an outsider perspective it's not always pretty, bu those players serve a purpose. You can say Ramos and Casmeiro are thugs, you can say Costa is a biggest scumbag to play football...but at the end of day their character is valuable to the team and it's success.
That's why I'm excited for this signing. Something outside of the usual mould.
Sorry but after Roma which was icing on the cake for the previous humiliating CL eliminations to Juve and Atletico, we definitely need something more than these choirboys. Look, I have nothing against Raki, Busi, Iniesta, Roberto, Denis, Rafinha, Thiago etc...I applaud them and some of them are the most technically talented players to ever wear the shirt. They are all respectful, disciplined and well-mannered players.
But they are not killers. And you need killers in your team if you want to be the best. Technical players are important, but you also need the thugs, the aggressors and the people who aren't timid or respectful. That's what Vidal is.
From an outsider perspective it's not always pretty, bu those players serve a purpose. You can say Ramos and Casmeiro are thugs, you can say Costa is a biggest scumbag to play football...but at the end of day their character is valuable to the team and it's success.
That's why I'm excited for this signing. Something outside of the usual mould.
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Messi983
Senior Member
He's not going anywhere in the near future and if/when he will he'll prefer Madrid over us.
No need for us to try and be friendly with that club.
wisconsincule
Senior Member
Surprised to see Vidal won 5 MOTM for Bayern last year. Hes definitely a better Paulinho. Valverde has to be creaming his pants. If it’s the rumored 20-30M and 3 years (would like 2 but whatever) I’m totally for this signing. From what I’ve seen it looks like he’s lost his legs a bit obviously? Really liked him when he played for Juve. Lost track of him for Bayern but he is class for sure.
Sumlit
San Claudio Bravo
Did the team lack character when they won a treble in 15? Virtually same team as now sans Mascherano, Iniesta and Neymar, only one of which you can say is a strong character guy.
Did they lack character when they overcame 4-0 deficit against PSG with a 6-1 victory before losing to Juve?
Did they lack character when they repeatedly came from behind in many games last season?
Seems to me there's a fallacy here of attributing lack of character to what is actually a flawed team lacking talent and guidance to compete in high pressure one-off type of encounters.
Once again, you cannot have character and then not have it. Doesn't work like that. You either have it, or you don't. These players have competed and won high pressure situations to be accused of lacking character.
They lack motivation; they lack youthful talent; and yes, they very much lack managing, specially during that Roma tie.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
That is your personal opinion.
My opinion is that our team is a team of schoolboys who are insanely technically talented, but not real warriors (either winner-driven warriors like CR7 or thugs warriors like Ramos, Atletico and similar).
I know, I know, we have the same reply for every single question in the world:
1. we need physically stronger players...
Reply:We don't. Because in the era of Xavi-Iniesta-Messi-Busi we won without physique.
Well, lol. That was one in a million generation so full of technical talent that no one could have won against them INSPITE of a poor physique and questionable warrior mentality.
2. the same is now with remarks about mentality, people will reply:
Schoolboys Xavi-Iniesta-Busi-Messi were winning everything during Pep, so the problem is not in them...
Well, imo, again, they were winning inspite of a poor character and mostly due to alienish skills of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi.
Now, when Xavi is gone, when Iniesta was a granny (or gone), when Busi is a semi-granny, Messi is old, our players don't have those Alienish technical skills anymore.
And when we are faced against any semidecent CL team with better physique, more aggression, better winning mentality and motivation and slightly less technique, we are outplayed like little kids.
As we said a lot of times, in 6 out of 7 last years, we didn't score a goal in away games in quarters (when we were knocked out).
Messi, our leader, hasn't scored in 12 out 13 CL knockout matches (querters, semis and a final) in the last 5 years.
So, whenever we meet any Italian, English, German team or Atletico in a CL, we turned into frightened girls who have no idea how to react and how to fight with CL bullies.
Please don't reply: we need a controller lol
As Messi983 said today, we had 5 different coaches in that era, and each time we lost exactly in the same fashion: like little teen boys, being scared and without any ideas and abilities to fight off physically stronger and more aggressive teams.
On Barcaforum, especially for guys who started watch football in Pep's era, football will be 90% technical skills and 10% of everything else.
But in other parts of the world and in reality, technical skills are probably only 50% of success.
Other skills are: physical skills, motivation, aggression, winners mentality, mental strength, ability to come back when you are losing and similar.
Barca lacks in almost all of these areas.
And, as always, people will say: why are we winning La ligas then?
= because there is NO sudden-death pressure in La liga
La liga is our comfort zone.
We know that we are technically the best team, and will eventually usually have the highest number of wins against Getafe and Levante.
If we lose a match, no problem. We are not knocked out.
So, in Liga: if we win a match=fine. If we lose a match=fine, no problem, we will win in the next match.
And then come CL, and we are in deep problems.
Opponents mark Messi with 3 guys, we don't have any ideas besides Messi.
Messi sulks.
Iniesta and Busi sulk.
And other guys are not good enough to change a game on their own (Raki, Roberto, Alba, Pique).
Imo, Barca during Pep and postPep is the "nicest" team of players ever seen in a football history.
Again, people will reply: but they were winning trophies.
Yeah, while they were on a technical prime.
But since you'll never find a set of players as good as them, you are in problems then and you need other skills (beside technique) like physical skills, aggression, mental strength etc.
Other famous Barcas like 1992', had Stoichkov, who was beyond crazy.
Later we had crazy Lucho.
Then crazy Etoo, crazy Van Bommel, crazy Motta.
Puyol was a lion.
Ronnie had courage also.
Today:
Iniesta never fights.
Busi? Lol, he can only lie down on the ground.
Messi fighting? Yeah right.
Luis can fight to some extent.
And even Rakitic is nice and polite.
Dembele? A guy is afraid of everything for now.
So, imo, we also need some fighting spirit, some courage, some thugs.
When 50:50 matches are dirty and tough, we need one Stoichkov, Lucho, Van Bommel or Vidal to scare the opponents.
Our guys are just bullied too often due to a poor physique and due to a too nice, submissive personality.
In short, every team EVER (except Barca 2009-2011) needed some aggression, and lots of mental strength.
We need more of these:
Masc was crazy, he is gone.
Puyol was a lion, he is gone.
Paulinho wasn't a pushover, he is gone.
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
He is not a Madridista, he was a Ronaldo fanboy. There are plenty of Cules playing for Real Madrid (supposedly Modric and Isco), so there is no reason why we can't get him if timing and conditions are right.
Sumlit
San Claudio Bravo
Not gonna read the whole post BBZ, too long man. But from the first part equating physicality with character is another fallacy. As it is suggesting physicality is indispensable for success. Luka Modric for instance is a strong character player, and not a physical one. Barca's and Spain's best midfielder ever, Xavi, was a strong character guy and not a physical one.
This team does not need physical players to succeed. It needs talent, young legs and guidance.
This team does not need physical players to succeed. It needs talent, young legs and guidance.
Devils
Senior Member
-In the treble 15 season we absolutely did. We had prime Suarez, Alves, Neymar performing at his best and we still had Xavi as a leader in the locker room. These guys back then were serial winners and worked their asses off for the team.
-The comeback against PSG was great but the team repeated the same mistakes against Juve. I'm going to argue with you here and say that if we had more aggressive and fighting players we never would have lost 4-0 in Paris in the first place.
What I am saying is go back and watch our eliminations to Atletico, Juve and Roma. Every single time the tide turned, we walked around looking hopeless and it looked as if our entire team had given up. Especially Atletico in 2015/2016, they basically beat us with the same tactics they did two years earlier and our players looked still walked around looking hopeless. It's like they were just accepting that the same thing from two years ago was going to happen again. Then came Juve and Roma which the exact same thing was observed.
Opponents score one goal...the team begins to panic
Opponents score second goal...heads go down everyone looks hopeless
Opponents score the third goal...flatline
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Joan
Well-known member
I don't think they're selling but let's look at this. Suppose the boy's willing to come here. (1) wait until his contract runs out (deal of a century) or (2) PSG willing to sell a year before so they make money on him, you really believe PSG would prioritize someone else over us? I think they'd except the best offer no matter who sent it. After all, Mbappe's willing to come here. Not that other 'old', 'big' clubs who might sign him have good relations with PSG.
In the end, it's up to Mbappe.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
You should have read the whole post then.
Luka Modric has technique, but Madrid has lots of physique, aggression, thughs, mental strength and CR7, the robot in terms of mental strength and coming back.
Barca 2009-2011 is the only team ever who won trophies without physique, thugs and mental strength.
But as you see, when we lost alienish technique, we can't win anymore.
The same as Spain, who are a bad copy of our famous style.
Both Barca and Spain died in the same moment, when insane technique was past it's prime.
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Sumlit
San Claudio Bravo
So Suarez had character then, but not now. Neymar a character guy now? He was there in 16 when we lost to Juve. The guys back then were serial winners, but somehow the same guys now are serial losers?
Again, you cannot switch character on and off like all you are suggesting. A player with character either has it or doesn't.
What you say is lack of character that lead to poor loses, is really poor team management both in squad renewal and squad management. Players got old and were not replaced; replacements were misguided and just flat out didn't work; and coaching has been very lacking these past 3 seasons.
These things make the difference.
Sumlit
San Claudio Bravo
Write a shorter more concise post. Be considerate with others.
KingMessi
SiempreBlaugrana
Bunch of arm-chair pseudo-science spewing folk in here. Some nonsense.
It seems you lack the mentality to read such long posts.
It seems you lack the mentality to read such long posts.
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