Barca Transfers and Rumors

[JamDav1982]

Better to focus on SA market and build the value of the players we sell, rather than do the opposite mainly down to overpaying wages. Or even Africa where Spain has no issue with nonEU quotas.

And also secure the assets in the youth teams. Like Ilias, moving to Leeds for free, where we earn from formation rights but could have had a transfer fee. Or if we were Madrid, had him signed up until 2026 and sold with a buyback that's valid for 3 years or more.

Ilias has not been good enough for Barca for them to go all out to keep him and compete with type of salaries will be getting offered at Leeds most likely.

They do need to avoid young players who have any type of value getting down to less than one year left though.

If they stay to run down contract ahead of even leaving for a % then dont play them for a year.

 

[Porque]

Ilias has not been good enough for Barca for them to go all out to keep him and compete with type of salaries will be getting offered at Leeds most likely.

They do need to avoid young players who have any type of value getting down to less than one year left though.

If they stay to run down contract ahead of even leaving for a % then dont play them for a year.

Yeah. Just alot of mismanagement really. And there is also a case that some players will stagnate or appear to plateau at the B, will still having more potential in them.

Xavi gave Ilias some games last year and then was forgotten. No renewal attempts at that point? No development plan or loan plan for him for example.

Then there is Victor Barbera who for a while was the best attacker in LaMasia on form, and didn't renew nor give opportunities. Now Estanis is playing very well overall, another one Xavi debuted last season, and he can't even get 10 minutes and is behind Balde and Alba as left wing attempts.

Well I know you are aware of these players and these cases, but perhaps others are not. With the financial difficulties the income from Jutgla, Ilaix and another I can't recall off top of head, should have given an aggressive intervention to amend the youth model and pivot. But it still appears to be running lassez-faire and on month to month basis so to speak.

 

[Porque]

@Porque Orban (Gent) is playing versus West Ham in the Conference League tomorrow. If you want to see him play yourself then this is probably the most interesting game he will be involved in for a good while.

Thanks. I may put it on second screen. BTW, if you are watching Anderlecht, how has Yukinari Sugawara been for AZ?

 

[Slevinn]

Thanks. I may put it on second screen. BTW, if you are watching Anderlecht, how has Yukinari Sugawara been for AZ?

Pretty good (definitely better than last week) but nothing special. Wasn’t really tested in defence though but most of their attacks went via his side.

 

[Messi983]

So apparently club wants to get 100m for players sales this summer. Is it possible? Yes. Don't think it's very likely though. If we'd be a good selling club (which we all know we're not) we should get around 80-90m alone for Raphinha (yes, not having a great season but still has reputation in EPL and should generate interest there) and Kessie (but selling him to EPL rather than Serie A, not sure how likely that is with Conte who apparently wanted him at Tottenham not there anymore though).

But they are the only first team players (of those we are willing to sell so disregarding likes of FDJ, Pedri, Araujo or Christensen) whose value has not totally dropped after first season here. Other players we might sell or loan are just to offload (part of) their wages rather than generate much income.

Dembele is another interesting case. Don't think there is any way Xavi will let him go but OTOH don't want repeat of last summer not knowing until last second whether he'll renew or we risk to lose him for nothing in 2024. Injuries should ofc be a big concern (again). Do we really want to build our system around a guy who is expected to miss 3-4 months if not more every season. Or is it better to bring someone whose abilities are a bit lower but we can count on to be available for 90% of the games? No idea who that guy would be but there are surely players out there who fit that criteria. Durability and consistency are two attributes I think are not valued enough amongst fans and Dembele clearly can't guarantee either of them.


MD also says we believe to get money from players out on loans.

I think we already received 7m for Trincao after Sporting have stayed up in Primeira liga (that was ofc a foregone conclussion but just a clause they've included in his contract). Also have 50% of future sale if they decide to cash on him. Although part of any money (20% I think) goes to Wolves for that strange clause when we loaned him there that I've never really understand why we've included.

There were reports a month or so ago Tottenham are offering around 14m for Lenglet. Conte has gone in the meantime so not sure if they still want to keep him but either way should get around 10m. Has build a bad reputation over last few years with costly mental mistake (he did well overall in games I've seen for Tottenham this season though) but I think worse players than him were sold for more so don't think it's unrealistic to expect that.

Player whose value has increased the most is Abde. Not sure what exact plan is with him as there are/were some conflicting reports but I'd sell for around 10-15m (would like to include a buy-back just in case though).

Umtiti is having a solid season in Lecce so bigger clubs like Inter and Roma have apparently shown interest. As long as we can convince someone to pay part of his wages would already consider this a win, don't expect any fee though. Might try to include him in a potential Kessie-Brozović swap if we'll go that way. Not really sure I like that idea though. Brozo is a quality player but another one on the wrong side of 30s to add to Inigo Martinez (who looks a done deal), Gundogan and/or Carrasco and potential Messi return when we also have Lewy and Busi (I'm sure he won't go anywhere if his amigo Leo returns). Just seems going the wrong way when we did some good job last summer signing players in the right age range (AC, JK, FK and Raphi) if not neccesarily the right profiles/fits for the team. So would prefer to look for guys like Kamada or Marcus Thuram rather than some of those older players we're linked with. Maybe they'll accept lower wages but it's not like reported 6m net for 2+1 year contract for Gundogan is all that cheap either. He's ofc a good player but his wheels could fall off any time so would rather invest that money in someone in his prime years like Kamada (not comparing him and Gundo as players to be clear, just looking from a financial and team building perspective).

Anyway, back to the loanees. Don't expect much for Nico but with Mendes as his agent he might find a club willing to pay for him in EPL rather than loaning him again. As in Abde's case include a buy-back if he's sold if he turns into a world beater (not likely) or just to potentially make some more money out of him in future.

I expect another loan for Dest as don't see any club paying a fee for him.

And Collado will probably be let go for free with % of future sale like it happened with other La Masia/Barca B players recently.


Another thing I don't fully understand with this whole "we need to reduce salaries for 200m" we're hearing all the time from Tebas is if they also mean wages of above mentioned loanees who (as of now) will be back on our wage bill next season until we sell/loan them again. We are paying Umtiti's full wages (we apparently received 1m in add-ons from Lecce because he played certain number of games and could get some more - probably if they stay up in Serie A which they're on a good way right now although their recent form isn't good) this year despite being on loan. If we could get someone to cover 40-50% would already be a big relief. IIRC Spurs are paying Lenglet's salary this season but at this point I think he's still included in our SCL calculation for next season.

Quite a difference (probably around 30m gross for Umtiti and Lenglet alone) compared to reducing wages of only players currently in the team for 200m which I don't think it's realistically possible to do.

Also don't know what exactly happens with deferred wages. Could be wrong but my theory is if Busi for example leaves this summer Tebas would include all his deferred wages into next year calculation (even if Busi would agree Barca to pay him off in next 3 years or so which I don't think he would be opposed to). Let's say we owe him 15m from Covid seasons and his regular yearly wages are 21m gross (capology has him earning 37m gross which might not be totally accurate but if it is I think it's a sum of both).

Latest reports were we're offering him 7m gross to renew. So our options are.

1. let him go and we pay all his deferred wages. We don't need to pay him his normal wages anymore but those are not included in next year's calculations anyway because he's out of contract. So total cost in my example is him costing us 15m against the cap while playing for another team.

2. renew him with drastical 66% salary cut (compared to this season) but we get away not paying him full deferred wages next season (we'll eventually have to pay at some point ofc but from FFP perspective deferred wages are pushed further in the future). So he continues to play for us for 7m against the cap.

Is it worth it from a sporting perspective? Probably not although he's done better since the change of formation having more legs in midfield to cover for him (is clearly exposed without FDJ and Pedri alongside him though).

But makes some sense from a financial viewpoint. Should also keep in mind that it's not only a debate of Busi or no Busi but also have to get a replacement if he leaves. In that case we'd have Gundo and Busi with a combined 19m against the cap if they're both here next season while OTOH cost would be 27m with just Gundo here and Busi elsewhere.

My numbers are arbitrary and could be off but it's how I think salary cap works when it comes to deferred wages. And why we want to renew Busi (besides the fact he's Xavi's best amigo ofc) and why we renewed Roberto who is also owed money from previous seasons so it's cheaper for the club to pay him some lowly wages next season.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Brozo is a quality player but another one on the wrong side of 30s to add to Inigo Martinez (who looks a done deal), Gundogan and/or Carrasco and potential Messi return when we also have Lewy and Busi (I'm sure he won't go anywhere if his amigo Leo returns). Just seems going the wrong way when we did some good job last summer signing players in the right age range (AC, JK, FK and Raphi) if not neccesarily the right profiles/fits for the team.

Wrong side of 30's means he is in the 2nd half of 30's AFAIK, that is how they use it in the NBA at least.

Laporta has made his first rebuild through players who were mostly 28 or older with few selected players who were young, and organic development of young players we have.
I am hoping for a full youth move btw, but if we are being honest if both the coach and board see it this way, I think we should accept it for what it is. There will be plenty of old stop gaps, that will then be replaced with old stop gaps and so on.

 

[JamDav1982]

There no way Raphinha has shown enough in his career to be an 80-90m player.

Folk put too much emphasis on how bad a selling team Barca are and over state how much influence have on that.

'Wrong side of 30' means anything after turned 30.

 

[Deco]

Buying clubs is trying to exploit the Barca situation and try and buy players cheaply.

 

[Messi983]

Wrong side of 30's means he is in the 2nd half of 30's AFAIK, that is how they use it in the NBA at least.

Laporta has made his first rebuild through players who were mostly 28 or older with few selected players who were young, and organic development of young players we have.
I am hoping for a full youth move btw, but if we are being honest if both the coach and board see it this way, I think we should accept it for what it is. There will be plenty of old stop gaps, that will then be replaced with old stop gaps and so on.

He also brought younger stars like Ronaldinho and Eto'o.

I think if Messi returns and if Inigo is really signed then also getting likes of Gundogan and Carrasco at the same time could be dangerous.

There no way Raphinha has shown enough in his career to be an 80-90m player.

Folk put too much emphasis on how bad a selling team Barca are and over state how much influence have on that.

'Wrong side of 30' means anything after turned 30.

I've meant 80-90m for Raphinha and Kessie combined. Should probably get back close to what we've paid for Raphinha and around 20m for Kessie.

90m probably a bit too optimistic but 70-80m in today's market for both of them doesn't sound too much if we'd know how to sell.

 

[Respekt_III]

Is this firmino rumor legit...
I hope not.

 

[mc_lovin]

Have my heart set on the Diaz dude, full on bandwagon. Don't think there are any other reasonable DM options.

Him, Vitor and Arnau would be great. Just sell half the team to make it happen ;D

 

[Porque]

Is this firmino rumor legit...
I hope not.

Aguero, Lewandowski. It's our yearly aged striker signing ritual.

Definitely happening.

 

[khaled_a_d]

He also brought younger stars like Ronaldinho and Eto'o.

I think if Messi returns and if Inigo is really signed then also getting likes of Gundogan and Carrasco at the same time could be dangerous.

Yeah, as I said "selected few" lol. Eto, R10 & Marquez were elite young signing that were the core of the team.
Think the likes of Vitor Roque are thought about the same way, a potential elite young player to build the team around, hoping something like Eto happens again.

And sure, if we get 4 or 5 players who are 30+ it is dangerous, but I think for now it is all about what can we get.
Also there might be some 30+ players leaving,like Busquets and Alonso (rumour is that he can be part of an Inter Milan swap deal)

90m probably a bit too optimistic but 70-80m in today's market for both of them doesn't sound too much if we'd know how to sell.

What defines "how to sell" ?
I think if we are talking about negotiating, we are good as anybody.

Thing is, 70% of the work is about when to sell and how to make situation feasible with players.

Barca lacks in the timing tbf, but there main problem is that we created a situation where leaving is a bad option for most players.

Btw, Timing is one reason I think we should sell MATS next summer. I think he will have a good value and might have several suitors and that won't happen again.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I think he is a big talent but also overrated.

What is your thoughts on Verbruggen, Debast & Vermeeren? They are all hyped in their positions afaik.
Hope we aren't bothering you with questions, but it is rare to find someone who has good insight in Belgium league.

 

[jamrock]

In the summer, I think we'll sign 4 player.

1 FB
1 striker.

Both of whom will be of the right age profile.

And then 2 more experience players in their 30's, hopefully gundogan plus 1.

If that happens, that's a great window and perfectly acceptable.

If we throw Yannick in there as well, who will just be turning 30 after the season starts, that's also a win.