Barça's Transfers and Rumors

[DonAK]

Barca's failure of late has been not signing good players when they've been desperately needed. Going after stars is not a failure, even if you don't get them. But you need to be able to have backup plans and contingencies. Going for and not getting the biggest names is not bad, you tried and it wasn't possible. Settling for lesser talent, or no talent at all afterwards was the actual failure.

With the mentality of not going for the big name in a big team were a thing, then Suarez would have never been bought. Yet he was, because the team went for him and he was available.

Going after stars whose club won't sell, when you could have got that star before, is nothing but a failure in my eyes.

 

[Jombi]

Barca's failure of late has been not signing good players when they've been desperately needed. Going after stars is not a failure, even if you don't get them. But you need to be able to have backup plans and contingencies. Going for and not getting the biggest names is not bad, you tried and it wasn't possible. Settling for lesser talent, or no talent at all afterwards was the actual failure.

With the mentality of not going for the big name in a big team were a thing, then Suarez would have never been bought. Yet he was, because the team went for him and he was available.

I think we agree, as I am talking about going after stars from rich clubs who have no interest or willingness to sell and us having no backup plans, being so certain that we will get our star man. I am not talking about refusing to buy stars who obviously become available because of breakdown in contract negotiations or PR marketing disasters for Liverpool like Suarez.

 

[Flavia]

I think we largely agree if you think guys like James and Griezmann are the type of players we should go for. These are exactly the guys I would consider great young players (in their early 20s) from smaller teams (Sociedad and Monaco) who had yet to play for a rich, big club and had the potential to become world class. I dont understand why we have let Real Madrid buy 3 great young midfielders in Isco, James and Kroos when it was us who needed a generational change in midfield after Xavi and Iniesta. We shouldnt have allowed that to happen.

Pretty much. Should had signed one of Isco or Kroos. To make things even better, Thiago was sold. I love Xavi and Iniesta to death, but the overlook about them was huge. And then the midfield is the weakest link of Barça. I wouldn't believe it if someone told me in 2011 that this would happen.

 

[Hamzah]

I think we largely agree if you think guys like James and Griezmann are the type of players we should go for. These are exactly the guys I would consider great young players (in their early 20s) from smaller teams (Sociedad and Monaco) who had yet to play for a rich, big club and had the potential to become world class. I dont understand why we have let Real Madrid buy 3 great young midfielders in Isco, James and Kroos when it was us who needed a generational change in midfield after Xavi and Iniesta. We shouldnt have allowed that to happen.

Yeah, isco and kroos especially when isco came from a small club and kroos was offered to us. Both would have picked us over madrid.

James is slightly different as he cost about 70 million.

We should have kept thiago but remember it was him who left because he was impatient. Also remember he is injury prone and is still to develop fully and he's already 24. Losing thiago wasn't so bad.

 

[Sumlit]

I think we largely agree if you think guys like James and Griezmann are the type of players we should go for. These are exactly the guys I would consider great young players (in their early 20s) from smaller teams (Sociedad and Monaco) who had yet to play for a rich, big club and had the potential to become world class. I dont understand why we have let Real Madrid buy 3 great young midfielders in Isco, James and Kroos when it was us who needed a generational change in midfield after Xavi and Iniesta. We shouldnt have allowed that to happen.

Yeah but those players are expensive, that's the point, and very much regardless of the team they play. Young, established world class talent is expensive. period.

James from Monaco - €80m
Griezmann from Real Sociedad - €30m
Isco from Malaga - €30m
Danilo from Porto - €31.5m
Mangala from Porto - €40m

I get it that you think Barca should go for young talent. I also get it that you think they should do a better job scouting rising talent from lesser leagues to supplement their bigger transfers. But understand that is expensive, regardless of teams. And also understand that Barca need established world class players. They can't be pussyfooting around with project signings because that's what costs you titles.

 

[Hamzah]

Project signings are needed at every top club and most winning teams have players that were projects and/or came from youth teams.

Teams full of galacticos don't win CL titles that often.

2014 Real Madrid- they had galacticos but also some projects like varane, Carvajal, Marcelo, isco, and youth players.
2013 bayern - loads of youth players and cheap bundesliga signings like Mandzukic and Dante

Etc etc

 

[Sumlit]

Going after stars whose club won't sell, when you could have got that star before, is nothing but a failure in my eyes.

I don't think they failure was going for them. You go for them because if you don't try you don't succeed. No one thought Suarez could be bought from Liverpool last season, yet he was.

Failure was not moving on and going to get the next best thing, and instead settling for much lesser talent and hell, even no talent at all.

I wouldn't like Barca thinking they won't go after a player because they couldn't get him. That's small club mentality. You inquire, you make your intentions known, if it pans, it pans, if it doesn't you move on and go to your other targets. Barca has failed in the latter.

 

[Sumlit]

Project signings are needed at every top club and most winning teams have players that were projects and/or came from youth teams.

Teams full of galacticos don't win CL titles that often.

2014 Real Madrid- they had galacticos but also some projects like varane, Carvajal, Marcelo, isco, and youth players.
2013 bayern - loads of youth players and cheap bundesliga signings like Mandzukic and Dante

Etc etc

Project signings are supplemental though, not the main. Barca has replaced project signings with project La Masia players of late. Now though, La Masia has entered a bit of a down period, they actually might require some project signings. But always supplemental to the big signings.

If team's full of galacticos don't necessarily win, team full of projects more often fail, let alone win.

Also, of those you mentioned, for the concern of the 2014 season only Varane and Carvajal are project signings, Isco was never a project and Marcelon has been in Madrid since 2007. Varane was treated like a project too as RM has their starting CB paring.

 

[Jombi]

Yeah but those players are expensive, that's the point, and very much regardless of the team they play. Young, established world class talent is expensive. period.

James from Monaco - €80m
Griezmann from Real Sociedad - €30m
Isco from Malaga - €30m
Danilo from Porto - €31.5m
Mangala from Porto - €40m

I get it that you think Barca should go for young talent. I also get it that you think they should do a better job scouting rising talent from lesser leagues to supplement their bigger transfers. But understand that is expensive, regardless of teams. And also understand that Barca need established world class players. They can't be pussyfooting around with project signings because that's what costs you titles.

We tried this galactico approach with Ibra, but it didnt turn out too well IMO.

I think it all just comes down to what you consider "established, world class talent", and what you consider "project signings". I guess it all boils down to how you rate a player. Why do you consider a guy like Mangala established and world class talent while you see nothing special with Joel Veltman? There are lots of players out there. A guy like James was not anymore dominant in the French league than Imbula is for Marseille this year for example. Will Imbula cost 80m? I dont think so.

I think we mostly agree, we just use different labels for these players.

What we both would like to see is great young players in their early 20s joining us, players who are dominant in their leagues and with the potential to develop and be better for us than they were in their previous clubs.

 

[Hamzah]

Project signings are supplemental though, not the main. Barca has replaced project signings with project La Masia players of late. Now though, La Masia has entered a bit of a down period, they actually might require some project signings. But always supplemental to the big signings.

If team's full of galacticos don't necessarily win, team full of projects more often fail, let alone win.

Also, of those you mentioned, for the concern of the 2014 season only Varane and Carvajal are project signings, Isco was never a project and Marcelon has been in Madrid since 2007. Varane was treated like a project too as RM has their starting CB paring.

I think the best way to build a club is with youth players and projects (this requires very good planning though) and throw in four or five top class galacticos. That way you can have an era and the players have a set way of playing.

Peps barca and the current bayern are good examples.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think the best way to build a club is with youth players and projects (this requires very good planning though) and throw in four or five top class galacticos. That way you can have an era and the players have a set way of playing.

Peps barca and the current bayern are good examples.

Peps Barca were not really built in the transfer market. Almost all the most important players were there in the system already. So to use that as a template is almost impossible to replicate.

 

[Sumlit]

We tried this galactico approach with Ibra, but it didnt turn out too well IMO.

I think it all just comes down to what you consider "established, world class talent", and what you consider "project signings". I guess it all boils down to how you rate a player. Why do you consider a guy like Mangala established and world class talent while you see nothing special with Joel Veltman? There are lots of players out there. A guy like James was not anymore dominant in the French league than Imbula is for Marseille this year for example. Will Imbula cost 80m? I dont think so.

I think we mostly agree, we just use different labels for these players.

What we both would like to see is great young players in their early 20s joining us, players who are dominant in their leagues and with the potential to develop and be better for us than they were in their previous clubs.

One player is not a galactico approach though, it's just one player. Buying Ibra wasn't barca going galactico.

I don't consider Mangala world class, I just added him there because he was another expensive young signing.

James had shown a lot more than Imbula. Not only was he very good at Monaco and WC, but he was already showing a lot of promise at Porto for 2 seasons. Imbula has only set himself apart this season, and not even a completed season yet. That's not establishing yourself, that's just showing early promise, good and interesting promise, but still it is promise.

If Imbula finishes this season strong, and Marseille manages to sneak into the UCL, or even if they make it into the UEL and he has another strong season and shows himself well in European competitions, then you can argue he has begun to establish himself.

I don't mind young ascending players being bought by Barca. In fact, I think they should start doing this more often instead of relying so blindly on La Masia, but I do not want them to get this players for starting positions. I wouldn't buy Imbula today and play him as starter instead of Iniesta. I would however do that with Koke, for instance.

 

[Sumlit]

I think the best way to build a club is with youth players and projects (this requires very good planning though) and throw in four or five top class galacticos. That way you can have an era and the players have a set way of playing.

Peps barca and the current bayern are good examples.

I don't disagree with that, but as you alluded, that requires a project and planning. You need to establish a succession project. Right now, Barca need more established WC players for their midfield, for instance, than projects. If they buy both, all the better, but a project right now must come second to an establish world class player.

For instance, buying Vietto from Villarreal is a project and a good one to undertake because you already have world class players for the next 3 years in that position. You can afford to buy a talented project at forward.

 

[Hamzah]

I don't disagree with that, but as you alluded, that requires a project and planning. You need to establish a succession project. Right now, Barca need more established WC players for their midfield, for instance, than projects. If they buy both, all the better, but a project right now must come second to an establish world class player.

For instance, buying Vietto from Villarreal is a project and a good one to undertake because you already have world class players for the next 3 years in that position. You can afford to buy a talented project at forward.

Agree with all of that

 

[Jombi]

One player is not a galactico approach though, it's just one player. Buying Ibra wasn't barca going galactico.

I don't consider Mangala world class, I just added him there because he was another expensive young signing.

James had shown a lot more than Imbula. Not only was he very good at Monaco and WC, but he was already showing a lot of promise at Porto for 2 seasons. Imbula has only set himself apart this season, and not even a completed season yet. That's not establishing yourself, that's just showing early promise, good and interesting promise, but still it is promise.

If Imbula finishes this season strong, and Marseille manages to sneak into the UCL, or even if they make it into the UEL and he has another strong season and shows himself well in European competitions, then you can argue he has begun to establish himself.

I don't mind young ascending players being bought by Barca. In fact, I think they should start doing this more often instead of relying so blindly on La Masia, but I do not want them to get this players for starting positions. I wouldn't buy Imbula today and play him as starter instead of Iniesta. I would however do that with Koke, for instance.

I dont really think the reason we refuse to buy great young players, except Neymar and Ter Stegen, is because we rely on La Masia. Our La Masia players have received very little trust over the years, and we have to go back 6 years since Busquets established himself as the last La Masia player. A guy like Samper isnt given any playing time for the first team.

I think the way Imbula has played this season, dominating one of the best teams in the league and doing great in the CL too is establishing yourself as a top player of that league. Marqinhos had established himself in Serie A as a great young player IMO when PSG bought him after his great season there. We cant just wait for years to let other clubs buy great young players and only try to show interest once they join big clubs. If you think guys like Griezmann, and Mangala were established world class talents in Sociedad and Porto, then so are guys like Imbula and Veltman in Marseille and Ajax. I dont think a guy like Danilo is better than Fabinho. Fabinho can probably be had for 12-15m. I dont think we will buy any of these guys though and they will probably go to some rich club in England.

I think the best idea is to gradually ease great young players into the team and not simply buy players because we have failed to plan for the decline of guys like Xavi and Iniesta. I agree that Koke might be a good purchase. Buying both Koke and Imbula is reasonable. At least its a better option than trying to go after Verratti or signing some aging Arsenal player like Cazorla or medicore guy like Pjanic with no potential to reach world class level.