Barça's Transfers and Rumors

[Joe598]

Umtiti will definitely be signed by us for around 20million. Denis too for 3 million as well as Ben Arfa on a free.
Leaves lots of money still available to be spent. What other positions do we need to strengthen?

 

[BBZ8800]

Someone who can be a starting centre back for the next 5-10 years beyond the next year or two.

About this part, fans would like to buy a player who will *surely* be a starter for the next 10 years.
But, realistically, what are the chances that we will find a player who will fit to our team perfectly, and who will cost a decent amount of money?

For example, Barca has a horrible history of CB signings in the last 15 years.
We had huge problems to find players who will fit in, and a lot of them looked perfect on a paper.

For example:
1999': Dehu from Lens, French ligue winners from 1998.
-- Dehu played 11 matches in Barca career
2001: Patrick Andersson, experienced Swedish NT player from Bayern Munchen
-- he was here for 3 seasons, he suffered horrible injuries
-- played 19 matches in 3 years
-- transfer price 8 Millions back in 2001. That is like 20+ M for a 30 years old today
2001: Christanval, 22 years French young Cb from Monaco
-- price 15 M
-- that is like 30-40 M today (a young player with lots of potential)
-- played 31 match in 2 years
-- released for free, if I remember correctly
2003: Marquez, 5,2 Millions from Monaco, 24 years old, something like 15M today
-- he was a success in Barca staying and playing for 7 seasons
2006: Thuram, 34 years old Cb from Juventus
-- price 5 M Euros, something like 10M for a 34 years old today
-- stayed for 2 seasons with average success
2007: Milito, 17 Millions, like 35 M today
-- suffered horrible injuries
2008: Pique
-- a huge success
2008: Caceres, 21 years old, 16,5 M, like 35-40M today
-- didn't succeed here
I won't even mention Henrique
2009: Chygrynskiy, 22 years old, 25 M. something like 50M today
-- didn't make it here
2014: Mathieu, 20 M
Vermaelen 10-20 Millions

So, let's do some maths here:
-- our only successful Cbs in the last 15 years were:
1. Puyol, from La Masia
2. Pique, from La Masia and Man. Utd
3. Marquez, a transfer
4. Mascherano, who is not a Cb at all

If we remove Puyol and Pique from these stats, since they are our products, let's see how many transfers we attempted in the last 15 years, and what is our success ratio with those transfers:

Success:
1. Marquez, 15M in current prices

Failure:
1. Chygrynskiy 50M
2. Christanval 40M
3. Caceres 35M
4. Mathieu 20M (not a failure, but...)
5. Vermaelen 10M
6. Thuram 10M
7. Dehu
8. Henrique

Injuries:
1. Milito, 35M
2. Andersson, 20M

So, our success ratio with foreign defenders is 1 out of 11 in the last 15 years (only Marquez was a good job, and we had 2 players with horrible injuries in Andersson and Milito).
Also, we attempted high-profile signings of young defenders a few times also: Chyngrynskiy 50M, Christanval 40M, Caceres 35M, Milito 35M (in the current transfer-market prices).

What I am trying to say, when people say: we should buy a guy for the next 5-10 years, well, a history is saying that it isn't such an easy job.
I am not saying that we shouldn't buy a young Cb for a 50M, but I can easily see Laporte or Marquinos as the next Caceres or any of these players from above.

 

[Jombi]

What were the add-ons in Vermaelen's signing fee? If no one know the exact language of what is in those add-ons we must include most of them in the price.

 

[Jombi]

About this part, fans would like to buy a player who will *surely* be a starter for the next 10 years.
But, realistically, what are the chances that we will find a player who will fit to our team perfectly, and who will cost a decent amount of money?

For example, Barca has a horrible history of CB signings in the last 15 years.
We had huge problems to find players who will fit in, and a lot of them looked perfect on a paper.

For example:
1999': Dehu from Lens, French ligue winners from 1998.
-- Dehu played 11 matches in Barca career
2001: Patrick Andersson, experienced Swedish NT player from Bayern Munchen
-- he was here for 3 seasons, he suffered horrible injuries
-- played 19 matches in 3 years
-- transfer price 8 Millions back in 2001. That is like 20+ M for a 30 years old today
2001: Christanval, 22 years French young Cb from Monaco
-- price 15 M
-- that is like 30-40 M today (a young player with lots of potential)
-- played 31 match in 2 years
-- released for free, if I remember correctly
2003: Marquez, 5,2 Millions from Monaco, 24 years old, something like 15M today
-- he was a success in Barca staying and playing for 7 seasons
2006: Thuram, 34 years old Cb from Juventus
-- price 5 M Euros, something like 10M for a 34 years old today
-- stayed for 2 seasons with average success
2007: Milito, 17 Millions, like 35 M today
-- suffered horrible injuries
2008: Pique
-- a huge success
2008: Caceres, 21 years old, 16,5 M, like 35-40M today
-- didn't succeed here
I won't even mention Henrique
2009: Chygrynskiy, 22 years old, 25 M. something like 50M today
-- didn't make it here
2014: Mathieu, 20 M
Vermaelen 10-20 Millions

So, let's do some maths here:
-- our only successful Cbs in the last 15 years were:
1. Puyol, from La Masia
2. Pique, from La Masia and Man. Utd
3. Marquez, a transfer
4. Mascherano, who is not a Cb at all

If we remove Puyol and Pique from these stats, since they are our products, let's see how many transfers we attempted in the last 15 years, and what is our success ratio with those transfers:

Success:
1. Marquez, 15M in current prices

Failure:
1. Chygrynskiy 50M
2. Christanval 40M
3. Caceres 35M
4. Mathieu 20M (not a failure, but...)
5. Vermaelen 10M
6. Thuram 10M
7. Dehu
8. Henrique

Injuries:
1. Milito, 35M
2. Andersson, 20M

So, our success ratio with foreign defenders is 1 out of 11 in the last 15 years (only Marquez was a good job, and we had 2 players with horrible injuries in Andersson and Milito).
Also, we attempted high-profile signings of young defenders a few times also: Chyngrynskiy 50M, Christanval 40M, Caceres 35M, Milito 35M (in the current transfer-market prices).

What I am trying to say, when people say: we should buy a guy for the next 5-10 years, well, a history is saying that it isn't such an easy job.
I am not saying that we shouldn't buy a young Cb for a 50M, but I can easily see Laporte or Marquinos as the next Caceres or any of these players from above.

History says we buy lots of crap no matter where we buy. Chygrynskiy was ridiculous and hardly anyone who had seen him wanted him because he was slow as a turtle and clumsy. But Gaby Milito wasnt young. He was 27 and had 4 years of La Liga behind him, while Marquez was 24 with no La Liga experience.

 

[JamDav1982]

What were the add-ons in Vermaelen's signing fee? If no one know the exact language of what is in those add-ons we must include most of them in the price.

3.8m of add ons if Barca won the CL twice in the next 5 years.

Assume he has to play in CL as Barca did not give them anything for winning it last year as he didnt play.

If he leaves then guessing that is 3.8m of add ons that can be taken from fee.

 

[Jombi]

3.8m of add ons if Barca won the CL twice in the next 5 years.

Assume he has to play in CL as Barca did not give them anything for winning it last year as he didnt play.

If he leaves then guessing that is 3.8m of add ons that can be taken from fee.

The add-ons were 9m if I remember correctly and do we know that he has to play CL for us to pay those 3.8m?

 

[JamDav1982]

The add-ons were 9m if I remember correctly and do we know that he has to play CL for us to pay those 3.8m?

I am going by reports in England and Spain last May that confirmed Arsenal got nothing for the CL win as he didnt play. When reports had been saying they were getting close to 3m.

 

[khaled_a_d]

What were the add-ons in Vermaelen's signing fee? If no one know the exact language of what is in those add-ons we must include most of them in the price.

They were 2 worth of 5&4M not sure who is the 4 and who is the 5M
But the 2 were
1-If he won 2 CL with us (he won non for now as he didn't play in last year CL)
2-The other is if he played most of games
So no ,they aren't must include in the price

 

[Jombi]

I am going by reports in England and Spain last May that confirmed Arsenal got nothing for the CL win as he didnt play. When reports had been saying they were getting close to 3m.

So we really dont know for certain how much is paid of those 9m in add-ons. I think we should include most of it as a conservative approach.

 

[Jombi]

They were 2 worth of 5&4M not sure who is the 4 and who is the 5M
But the 2 were
1-If he won 2 CL with us (he won non for now as he didn't play in last year CL)
2-The other is if he played most of games
So no ,they aren't must include in the price

Is this from official sources? 5m if he played most of our games?

 

[BBZ8800]

History says we buy lots of crap no matter where we buy. Chygrynskiy was ridiculous and hardly anyone who had seen him wanted him because he was slow as a turtle and clumsy. But Gaby Milito wasnt young. He was 27 and had 4 years of La Liga behind him, while Marquez was 24 with no La Liga experience.

I think that stats say that we are HORRIBLE at buying Cbs.

With attackers, we had around 50:50 success with awesome players like Ronnie, Etoo, Henry, Villa.
With very decent players like Larsson, Guily.

With Cms, we also had decent buys in Rakitic, Deco, to some extent Van Bommel, Edmilson, Yaya etc.
We were covered here Xavi-Iniesta-Busi, so we didn't need to buy too much.
But when we bought, we had a nice ratio of success.

With fullbacks, we also had a decent success with Alves, Alba, Van Bronckhorst and decent players like Silvinho, Belletti, Abidal etc

Our worst nightmare are Gks and Cbs.
With Gks, the funny thing is, the one who saved us was our product, Valdes.
The same with Cbs, our guys Puyol and Pique.
With Bravo and Mats, we improved our horrible stats in buying Gks.

And imo, today, our by far worse history is with buying Cbs.

Imo, the same as how some people are saying that Mats is a perfect Barca's keeper, since not everyone can be Barca's keeper (you need some special skills, like playing with feet and similar). Imo, the same is with Cbs.
There are tons of good defenders out there, but it seems that when majority of them come here, that they fail.
Our style of play asks for a certain skills of Cbs which other teams aren't, it seems.

And again, the funny thing is, the best guys for our style of play were Puyol and Pique.
Even Oleguer, who was poor to average player (our product), was a much better and more useful player than some expensive, foreign players like Chyngy or Christanval...

I have no idea what we should do with Cbs.
But again, I can smell a disaster, NO MATTER whom we will buy.
It seems that more or less no one (from defenders) fits to our system :/

 

[JamDav1982]

So we really dont know for certain how much is paid of those 9m in add-ons. I think we should include most of it as a conservative approach.

We have an idea as to what has been reported and it was reported in England./Spain Arsenal did not get the add on after the press had been gloating about it.

That is more to go on than just adding it all as suits your view point.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think that stats say that we are HORRIBLE at buying Cbs.

With attackers, we had around 50:50 success with awesome players like Ronnie, Etoo, Henry, Villa.
With very decent players like Larsson, Guily.

With Cms, we also had decent buys in Rakitic, Deco, to some extent Van Bommel, Edmilson, Yaya etc.
We were covered here Xavi-Iniesta-Busi, so we didn't need to buy too much.
But when we bought, we had a nice ratio of success.

With fullbacks, we also had a decent success with Alves, Alba, Van Bronckhorst and decent players like Silvinho, Belletti, Abidal etc

Our worst nightmare are Gks and Cbs.
With Gks, the funny thing is, the one who saved us was our product, Valdes.
The same with Cbs, our guys Puyol and Pique.
With Bravo and Mats, we improved our horrible stats in buying Gks.

And imo, today, our by far worse history is with buying Cbs.

Imo, the same as how some people are saying that Mats is a perfect Barca's keeper, since not everyone can be Barca's keeper (you need some special skills, like playing with feet and similar). Imo, the same is with Cbs.
There are tons of good defenders out there, but it seems that when majority of them come here, that they fail.
Our style of play asks for a certain skills of Cbs which other teams aren't, it seems.

And again, the funny thing is, the best guys for our style of play were Puyol and Pique.
Even Oleguer, who was poor to average player (our product), was a much better and more useful player than some expensive, foreign players like Chyngy or Christanval...

I have no idea what we should do with Cbs.
But again, I can smell a disaster, NO MATTER whom we will buy.
It seems that more or less no one (from defenders) fits to our system :/

Abidal was brilliant and best full back of those alongside Alves by far.

Most complete defender I have ever seen for Barca. Surely gets more credit than being 'decent'!

 

[khaled_a_d]

Is this from official sources? 5m if he played most of our games?

The official announcement was undisclosed fee as all deals in 2014 ,but due to Neymar case heating up the club decided for transparency and made an announcement of all the details of the deals all together
Vermaelen was announced the way I said it (10+4+5) but without saying specifically what are the adds-on for ,but MD announced them later .
You can argue that MD isn't reliable ,but the fact remains it is the closest thing to the club and when it doesn't come to player we are interested they have reliable sources .
More importantly b4 that announcement MD reported the fee of all the deals that when later revealed by the official announcements it actually proved they are right while other sources kept saying other numbers.

 

[Jombi]

I think that stats say that we are HORRIBLE at buying Cbs.

With attackers, we had around 50:50 success with awesome players like Ronnie, Etoo, Henry, Villa.
With very decent players like Larsson, Guily.

With Cms, we also had decent buys in Rakitic, Deco, to some extent Van Bommel, Edmilson, Yaya etc.
We were covered here Xavi-Iniesta-Busi, so we didn't need to buy too much.
But when we bought, we had a nice ratio of success.

With fullbacks, we also had a decent success with Alves, Alba, Van Bronckhorst and decent players like Silvinho, Belletti, Abidal etc

Our worst nightmare are Gks and Cbs.
With Gks, the funny thing is, the one who saved us was our product, Valdes.
The same with Cbs, our guys Puyol and Pique.
With Bravo and Mats, we improved our horrible stats in buying Gks.

And imo, today, our by far worse history is with buying Cbs.

Imo, the same as how some people are saying that Mats is a perfect Barca's keeper, since not everyone can be Barca's keeper (you need some special skills, like playing with feet and similar). Imo, the same is with Cbs.
There are tons of good defenders out there, but it seems that when majority of them come here, that they fail.
Our style of play asks for a certain skills of Cbs which other teams aren't, it seems.

And again, the funny thing is, the best guys for our style of play were Puyol and Pique.
Even Oleguer, who was poor to average player (our product), was a much better and more useful player than some expensive, foreign players like Chyngy or Christanval...

I have no idea what we should do with Cbs.
But again, I can smell a disaster, NO MATTER whom we will buy.
It seems that more or less no one (from defenders) fits to our system :/

We have good experience of buying from France with Marquez, Abidal, Yaya Toure (he even made appearances as CB!) but we stopped buying from France many years ago. I think Umtiti and Fabinho both have the type of skills we need with several years of Ligue 1 experience behind them, and would be more in line with that type of strategy.

I think it is better than buying more garbage from Arsenal like Vermaelen and Song to be our saviors.