Barça's Transfers and Rumors

[NeyMesSis]

How about that! For a Plan B or so.. like a 3-5-2

 

[Egert]

Indeed the team needs goal scorers, you won't find me disagreeing with that. However the midfield is instrumental to the performance of the scorers as scorers can be shut down if the midfield is struggling.

I also understand people's faith in Cesc, but it is only that at this point, faith. He has given very little actual evidence of being able to play that role. However I think putting everything on faith is not smart. What if he does not return your faith in kind? Then you're stuck with him and a Xavi on his last legs to carry you through next year and through the ban year. That will cripple the team big time.

Rafinha is a question mark as well. We simply do not know how he will play for Barcelona. Then you have Samper who is a DM and Suarez who is an AM. That still leaves the pure CM role with zero depth.

That's a lot of ifs to put on an extremely pivotal position. I think it would be foolish to gamble this way.

Thats why we need Kroos.

 

[serghei]

@NeyMesSis, the 3-5-2 (or 3-4-3) sounds like a super-offensive system, but in fact it is less offensive than a 4-3-3.

 

[NeyMesSis]

@NeyMesSis, the 3-5-2 sounds like a a supero-ffensive sistem, but in fact it is less offensive than a 4-3-3.

its both.. you can switch extremely fast from very offensive to very deffensive

 

[serghei]

its both.. you can switch extremely fast from very offensive to very deffensive

The problem is the 3-4-3 (3-5-2) didn't turn out to be a solid defensive system for us. The 4-3-3 is both more solid in defence, and more offensive (it's more like a 2-5-3 with the RB and LB high up the pitch) in extreme cases.

 

[dlx3]

Rijkaard neutralized Mourinho's bus (Chelsea) in 2006 (after he knocked us out in 2005' 2:1 and 2:4).

Mourinho wasn't such a pussy back then. He played with only on DM(Makelele) with Lampard, Gudjonsen, Robben, Cole and Crespo in front of him.

 

[DinhoR10]

Indeed the team needs goal scorers, you won't find me disagreeing with that. However the midfield is instrumental to the performance of the scorers as scorers can be shut down if the midfield is struggling.

I also understand people's faith in Cesc, but it is only that at this point, faith. He has given very little actual evidence of being able to play that role. However I think putting everything on faith is not smart. What if he does not return your faith in kind? Then you're stuck with him and a Xavi on his last legs to carry you through next year and through the ban year. That will cripple the team big time.

Rafinha is a question mark as well. We simply do not know how he will play for Barcelona. Then you have Samper who is a DM and Suarez who is an AM. That still leaves the pure CM role with zero depth.

That's a lot of ifs to put on an extremely pivotal position. I think it would be foolish to gamble this way.

Well the only thing we can do now is try. Xavi was once a gamble in that position, the only player that wouldn't have been a gamble was thiago and that ship sailed already. If you ask me the main thing Xavi has over all is his ability to hold possession the only one's comparable are Busquets and iniesta and he taught it to them . But we don't need 85% possession we need motivation more than anything and as shown by Bartra, our youngsters have it.

 

[Sumlit]

Well the only thing we can do now is try. Xavi was once a gamble in that position, the only player that wouldn't have been a gamble was thiago and that ship sailed already. If you ask me the main thing Xavi has over all is his ability to hold possession the only one's comparable are Busquets and iniesta and he taught it to them . But we don't need 85% possession we need motivation more than anything and as shown by Bartra, our youngsters have it.

Everything has risks, but you can have fall back options to minimize the risk. Buying a CM creates depth for the position and minimizes risks and IMO is a need considering all the question marks for the position going forward.

It is not smart to place all your eggs in the "lets play Cesc CM full time and see if it works, or if he can finally become a consistent player in second half of seasons" basket, or the "lets platoon Rafinha at CM, which is not his natural position, and hope he adapts to it" basket.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Mourinho wasn't such a pussy back then. He played with only on DM(Makelele) with Lampard, Gudjonsen, Robben, Cole and Crespo in front of him.

Because we weren't that offensive too ,more important Rijkaard team in 2006 was one of the most physically gifted team may be in history of the CL not only for us ,only Puyol,Gio,Giuly were shorter than 180cm in the starting line up and even them were very strong (and 2 of them are 178cm tall btw) that gave us tactical variety and ability to dominated them

Rijkaard neutralized Mourinho's bus (Chelsea) in 2006 (after he knocked us out in 2005' 2:1 and 2:4).
Do you know how?
= he didn't play all out attack like in 2005' (Tiki-Taka is somewhat similar to all out attack possession football with all your players in the opponent's half).
-- our team played more safe and cautious and we haven't played with 10 players in their half
-- we "gave" them some Possession and gave them a ball from time to time, and then when they would slightly open and when they would lose their bus-structure, and we would do some faster counterattacks
-- so, we played a regular Possession football in those matches, but not with 10 players in their half
= if we managed to score that way=fine
-- if not, we would give them the ball, and tried some counterattacks

So, what we have today with Tiki-Taka against top teams?
1. we have Possession 70-80%
2. we usually don't break the bus with shortpassing/playing through the middle
3. we don't have a plan B, for example:
a) playing high crosses because we don't have higher players
b) we don't try to give them some Possession to force them to open slightly more and to leave their bus-formation
-- we don't even try some counterattacks, players like Xavi always slow down the game/our counterattacs and it seems like they want to play against parked buses
4. also, with playing 10 players in their half, we usually can't score a goal, and yet, we are very vulnerable on counterattacks and we usually lose those matches

Rijkaard's tactics:
1. we didn't have Possession 80% of time
2. we didn't attack with 10 players in their half
3. we tried a few different styles:
a) through the middle, something like Tiki-Taka
b) we tried some crosses (Ronaldinho was higher than our current players, Eto'o was higher than our current players, Larsson was the king with headers)
-- also, we had more arial ability both in attacking and defensive free-kicks (Puyol, Marquez, Oleguer, Edmilson, Van Bommel, Belletti))
-- so, our team was generally much stronger physically and much better in the air, both in the attack and defense
c) we had even plan C, to give them some possession and to counterattack them with fast Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Guily/Messi
4. We didn't allow counterattacks, because we didn't play with 10 players in their own half and with fullbacks almost in their box

For those who fear that Barca will die without Tiki-Taka, we have always played Possession football and there are 1000s of other variations of Possession football.
Rijkaard's Barca didn't play Tiki-Taka and they brought us the first Champions league since 1992'

Also, current Tiki-Taka is extremely one-dimensional, it is easy to defend, we don't have a plan B and plan C like in 2006', and we are extremely vulnerable on counterattacks.

Seriously, the world won't end if we change our Tiki-Taka to some upgraded/evolved version of Possession/attacking football with slightly more options in the attacks, and slightly better defense against counterattacks and against corners.

One of the best posts I've ever read in this forum ,I've been saying that if there is a past structure we should be looking forward in our future building it is Rijkaard one not Pep ,Pep has reached higher level no doubt
that said the unique group of players he once had is almost impossible to assemble a similar one ,it is also tough to play same type of game with different type of player,look at Cesc ,everyone kept saying he would blossom in Tiki-take and it was actually the opposite ,let's count how many times in this thread when a player is mentioned people say he won't fit in the team and how difficult it is to play for Barca? make it Hummels,Luiz,every CB out there tbh not named T.Silva ,Gundogan,Reus,De Sciglio ,hell even La Masia products like Rafinha and the list goes on
right now it seems that tiki-taka has turned into an obsession that will only holds up back
We have always played an attacking minded entertaining game ,even b4 invention of the tiki-taka

 

[DinhoR10]

Everything has risks, but you can have fall back options to minimize the risk. Buying a CM creates depth for the position and minimizes risks and IMO is a need considering all the question marks for the position going forward.

It is not smart to place all your eggs in the "lets play Cesc CM full time and see if it works, or if he can finally become a consistent player in second half of seasons" basket, or the "lets platoon Rafinha at CM, which is not his natural position, and hope he adapts to it" basket.

I understand and Kroos is still an option. But about Rafinha's natural position, does he actually have one? Fifa 13 has him down as a cf lol half the time he's playing RW and then sometimes he plays cm, he's good everywhere if you ask me although I don't like him at cf much but he doesnt seem to have a clear cut position to me like iniesta where we know he's his best at.

 

[barcanuck]

How about that! For a Plan B or so.. like a 3-5-2

Liking it. Need the 3-4 big guys at the back. Even putting Masche in for Busi would add some more speed to make interceptions as another option.

 

[Sumlit]

I understand and Kroos is still an option. But about Rafinha's natural position, does he actually have one? Fifa 13 has him down as a cf lol half the time he's playing RW and then sometimes he plays cm, he's good everywhere if you ask me although I don't like him at cf much but he doesnt seem to have a clear cut position to me like iniesta where we know he's his best at.

Rafinha is a versatile player no doubt, but playing CM for FC Barcelona is no joke. That's a whole different animal altogether. I don't question Rafinha's talent, I've seen him play and his talent is unquestionable. My concern is betting on him settling in as a CM backup, when one: that is not his natural position, him being more attack minded; two: thinking that just because he played well in a deeper role at Celta, he can just translate that over to Barcelona; and three: the adaptation period and his age playing such a demanding position, which requires experience to learn and of which his brother, being more suited to it, still struggled to master while at the team.

I can understand if people feel giving Cesc and Rafinha a chance to see if they can grow into the position is a priority, however I am concerned that might be a big gamble to take without getting a natural CM for assurance, when you consider the importance of the role, the fact that both players are not natural to the role, Cesc's consistency concerns and Rafinha's youth and inexperience, and the fact that the team needs to think in a 2 year window because of the looming ban.

There are too many red flags here to ignore and just risk it.

 

[DinhoR10]

Rafinha is a versatile player no doubt, but playing CM for FC Barcelona is no joke. That's a whole different animal altogether. I don't question Rafinha's talent, I've seen him play and his talent is unquestionable. My concern is betting on him settling in as a CM backup, when one: that is not his natural position, him being more attack minded; two: thinking that just because he played well in a deeper role at Celta, he can just translate that over to Barcelona; and three: the adaptation period and his age playing such a demanding position, which requires experience to learn and of which his brother, being more suited to it, still struggled to master while at the team.

I can understand if people feel giving Cesc and Rafinha a chance to see if they can grow into the position is a priority, however I am concerned that might be a big gamble to take without getting a natural CM for assurance, when you consider the importance of the role, the fact that both players are not natural to the role, Cesc's consistency concerns and Rafinha's youth and inexperience, and the fact that the team needs to think in a 2 year window because of the looming ban.

There are too many red flags here to ignore and just risk it.

Well the only thing we can do is hope the board can make the right decision but idk if its the lack of rumors but I don't know if they will sign a cm.

 

[Sumlit]

Well the only thing we can do is hope the board can make the right decision but idk if its the lack of rumors but I don't know if they will sign a cm.

I don't know it either, in fact I lean towards no, in which case we better hope Cesc steps up and Rafinha really becomes a revelation otherwise we're in store for some troubling times.

 

[DinhoR10]

I don't know it either, in fact I lean towards no, in which case we better hope Cesc steps up and Rafinha really becomes a revelation otherwise we're in store for some troubling times.

Yup I think it will be especially sad because I believe Messi and Iniesta deserve atleast two more cls. Messi has alot of time but iniesta has probably 3 more years at most as a starter. But who knows, maybe if rafinha turns out to be thiago v2 we'll win back to back cl titles