Bayern München

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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
Bigger Fan base, Bigger stadium, Bigger commercially.

I already said that United only had the advantage in global fan potential, albeit without having even remotely as many actual club members.

Bigger stadium? Wow, the AA has almost as big a capacity as Old Traffort, but without being ancient but actually one of the most modern stadiums on the planet. I sure as shit know what I would prefer.

Bigger commercially... That is directly correlated to point 1. But as I said, Bayern have bigger revenue now than United, not to mention average profit each year.
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
financial power: Madrid and Barca, Man utd, Bayern
revenue: Madrid Barca,Man Utd, Bayern
profit: Bayern
ownership and modernity of the stadium: Irrelevant
drawing power/fan potential: Man Utd,Madrid,Barca,Liverpool,Bayern/Milan
current success and prestige:Success (Bayern,Madrid,Barca,) Prestige: Madrid and Barca. Always Madrid and barca, Man utd, Milan, Bayern
historical success and prestige: Madrid,Liverpool,Milan,Barca,Man Utd, Bayern(german league)
current rank in UEFA ranking: Irrelevant
current squad and coach: Bayern, Mardid/barca

only reason milan isn't ahead is their struggles financial recently
Liverpool are also a bigger club that Bayern globally, even with them not winning anything in years upon years.

all things being even, the best players in the world won't choose Bayern over, Madrid,Barca,man utd and milan if they had their act together.

No ones grows up and dreams of playing for Bayern outside of german


I'm not gonna comment on this, since most points you made are completely biased without any hard fact or base in reality and are nothing more than a personal opinion and an outrageously ridiculous one at that.
 
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instinct

Guest
Badstuber's injury is serious. Bayern has confirmed that he'll be out for a ''long period''
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
I'm not gonna comment on this, since most points you made are completely biased without any hard fact or base in reality and are nothing more than a personal opinion and an outrageously ridiculous one at that.

I actually think his comments are pretty right on and objective. Which part did you find biased and outrageously ridiculous?

The last sentence is especially true.

I guess to settle this, we will have to agree what defines being "biggest". Bayern is the most profitable and most financially healthy club with the most number of registered members, and a deep, red hot favorite team to win the CL, that's it.

Outside of Germany, Bayern can't really compete with any of the major EPL, Real Madrid, Barca even Serie A teams in terms of popularity and influence, when it comes to both players and fans.
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
Outside of Germany, Bayern can't really compete with any of the major EPL, Real Madrid, Barca even Serie A teams in terms of popularity and influence, when it comes to both players and fans.

Oh, really? You can sure provide some statistics to back that bold claim up.


But okay, I'll bite. Just to highlight what rubbed me wrong the most:

financial power: Madrid and Barca, Man utd, Bayern
revenue: Madrid Barca,Man Utd, Bayern
profit: Bayern
ownership and modernity of the stadium: Irrelevant
drawing power/fan potential: Man Utd,Madrid,Barca,Liverpool,Bayern/Milan
current success and prestige:Success (Bayern,Madrid,Barca,) Prestige: Madrid and Barca. Always Madrid and barca, Man utd, Milan, Bayern
historical success and prestige: Madrid,Liverpool,Milan,Barca,Man Utd, Bayern(german league)
current rank in UEFA ranking: Irrelevant
current squad and coach: Bayern, Mardid/barca

only reason milan isn't ahead is their struggles financial recently
Liverpool are also a bigger club that Bayern globally, even with them not winning anything in years upon years.

all things being even, the best players in the world won't choose Bayern over, Madrid,Barca,man utd and milan if they had their act together.

No ones grows up and dreams of playing for Bayern outside of german
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Oh, really? You can sure provide some statistics to back that bold claim up.

I don't have stats to back up my claim, just anecdotal evidence and experience. Serie A in its hey days, the dual powerhouses of Milan, especially AC Milan, and Juve definitely attracted more fans and players. Here in China, a lot more Serie A fans than Buli fans, I'd say and still to this days, given their recent struggles the Big 3 in Serie A still have a huge following.

But okay, I'll bite. Just to highlight what rubbed me wrong the most:

Again, I don't have any stats to back up, just some thoughts:

Revenue: Part of the revenue comes from TV contracts and jersey sales. Given EPL's and ManU's huge popularity around the world, I am not surprised that they get more money from TV contracts, after all EPL games are broadcasted almost everywhere, not the case with Bundesliga. In terms of jersey sales, they are only behind Real Madrid as the 2nd place, if I call (or 3rd, behind us as well?).

Ownership and the stadium: Agreed with jamrock, not sure how this is relevant. Especially stadium, I mean for example a super rich guy from any country can build the biggest, state-of-art stadium in the world, it doesn't make his team any better or worse.

Historical success and prestige: Yes Bayern has two more CL trophies than ManU (heck, for the sake of the argument, not only Real Madrid, AC Milan, Liverpool and Bayern had all had more CL trophies than we do;), and their domestic achievements are neck to neck, but in terms of prestige (similar to popularity in my opinion), ManU is definitely ahead of Bayern.

Current ranking: I think it does play into evaluating a club's success, but it is a moving target, neverthless one can definitely say Bayern is more successful than ManU lately.

I genuinely think non-German speaking players today still favor joining Real Madrid, Barca, and the EPL powerhouses over Bayern if everything else being equal. And that's not Bayern's fault, it is just that overall Bundesliga has a much smaller impact and exposure to the rest of the world compared to EPL, La Liga and Serie A. But things certainly can change, if Bayern, BVB and other Buli teams keep their current trajectory, Buli as a whole will be more visible globally, and Bayern will become more popular among both fans and players. 10 years from now, things could be a lot different.
 
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DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
I haven't been able to keep up with Bayern for the start of the season so I'd appreciate if someone could fill me in on these questions:

-How is Lewa doing?
-How is Alaba doing in his new midfield role?
-What's keeping Benatia from making his debut?
-How are Pep's new tactics taking hold? Shaky or promising?
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
Revenue: Part of the revenue comes from TV contracts and jersey sales. Given EPL's and ManU's huge popularity around the world, I am not surprised that they get more money from TV contracts, after all EPL games are broadcasted almost everywhere, not the case with Bundesliga. In terms of jersey sales, they are only behind Real Madrid as the 2nd place, if I call (or 3rd, behind us as well?).


current Forbes facts:

Bayern Revenue: $561 M (€431 M)
United Revenue: $551 M (£363 M)
DESPITE
Match Day: $336 M
Broadcasting: $413 M
Commercial: $814 M
versus
Match Day: $760 M
Broadcasting: $708 M
Commercial: $944 M

Pretty interesting however, that Bayern is not that far behind United in terms of commercial income.



but in terms of prestige (similar to popularity in my opinion), ManU is definitely ahead of Bayern.

From what I read and heard, United as of now are not much more than a laughing stock. Not all that much prestige in that, I figure.
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
I haven't been able to keep up with Bayern for the start of the season so I'd appreciate if someone could fill me in on these questions:

-How is Lewa doing?
-How is Alaba doing in his new midfield role?
-What's keeping Benatia from making his debut?
-How are Pep's new tactics taking hold? Shaky or promising?

Started out great in pre-season, but hasn't really convinced in his first couple of official matches. Not too bad, but missed quite a lot good opportunities. Also his work-rate seems less than what I was used to at BVB. Probably Pep at fault (aka his system and tactics vs. Klopp's style).

Alaba also hasn't convinced yet in his role as Kroos replacement. Against VfB he had his first match I would consider "acceptable".

Isn't fully acquainted with Pep's tactics yet. But now that Badstuber is injured, it won't matter much.

Well... atm we're far from being an invincible juggernaut... but at the same time, we haven't really been challenged, so I reserve judgement on that point.
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
current Forbes facts:

Bayern Revenue: $561 M (€431 M)
United Revenue: $551 M (£363 M)
DESPITE
Match Day: $336 M
Broadcasting: $413 M
Commercial: $814 M
versus
Match Day: $760 M
Broadcasting: $708 M
Commercial: $944 M

Thanks Ryu, I do see the same aggregate revenue numbers from Forbes. That's odd, I assume the run-down you posted was also Bayern vs. ManU, right? How come ManU still had less revenue than Bayern then? I am confused.


From what I read and heard, United as of now are not much more than a laughing stock. Not all that much prestige in that, I figure.

I think prestige is more tied to historical record, branding power than to recent/current performance.
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
Thanks Ryu, I do see the same aggregate revenue numbers from Forbes. That's odd, I assume the run-down you posted was also Bayern vs. ManU, right? How come ManU still had less revenue than Bayern then? I am confused.

Ah well, could be many reasons. I remember them selling another 10% shares for 100-something millions, so those would also count towards revenue. Also Bayern has always a sold-out stadium. Always. And that stadium is not exactly small either. But then that is what "Match Day" refers to, I guess. Maybe Bayern should raise the ticket price to ridiculous numbers as they did in England then? :D

They also still rent out the stadium to 1860 IIRC and the occasional concert gig etc.
Remember, Bayern actually fully owns that stadium.
 
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