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DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
You are talking like Bayern are some sort of super team we can never beat.

And you are acting like we are the same team we were back in 2009.

Xavi has lost a lot of his edge, Puyol is nearing retirement, and we still have issues to sort out. Under Tata we definitely look on the rise, but I still can't believe the level of arrogance you have at Barca's current position in football and the amount of disrespect you have for Bayern who are still going very strong and at their peak in dominance. Their veteran players are in their primes and effective as ever, plus they have youth and hunger.

Our players are definitely not better than theirs. Bar Messi, Iniesta, and Busquets, there is not one player in the Barca squad that you could objectively say can match up to their Bayern counterparts. Not to mention that they have insane squad balance and depth, not needing to rely on this false pride of "better star players" when they are a better team.

As I said before, this season I'm pretty sure we'll be a much better team than we were before and more competitive vs top sides. However, you have to show respect and humility to the team that is very obviously superior to us right now, it's just posterboy "cocky Barca fan" to keep ranting on about how we supposedly have better this or better that when actual competitions have said otherwise.
 

BarcaOG

Banned
And you are acting like we are the same team we were back in 2009.

Xavi has lost a lot of his edge, Puyol is nearing retirement, and we still have issues to sort out. Under Tata we definitely look on the rise, but I still can't believe the level of arrogance you have at Barca's current position in football and the amount of disrespect you have for Bayern who are still going very strong and at their peak in dominance. Their veteran players are in their primes and effective as ever, plus they have youth and hunger.

Our players are definitely not better than theirs. Bar Messi, Iniesta, and Busquets, there is not one player in the Barca squad that you could objectively say can match up to their Bayern counterparts. Not to mention that they have insane squad balance and depth, not needing to rely on this false pride of "better star players" when they are a better team.

As I said before, this season I'm pretty sure we'll be a much better team than we were before and more competitive vs top sides. However, you have to show respect and humility to the team that is very obviously superior to us right now, it's just posterboy "cocky Barca fan" to keep ranting on about how we supposedly have better this or better that when actual competitions have said otherwise.

+1

Nice to see some honest objectivity instead of the usual, self-defeating, deluded fanaticism that reigns supreme around here.
 

ebc_99

Active member
And you are acting like we are the same team we were back in 2009.

Xavi has lost a lot of his edge, Puyol is nearing retirement, and we still have issues to sort out. Under Tata we definitely look on the rise, but I still can't believe the level of arrogance you have at Barca's current position in football and the amount of disrespect you have for Bayern who are still going very strong and at their peak in dominance. Their veteran players are in their primes and effective as ever, plus they have youth and hunger.

Some people think we stand no chance against Munich but I don't subscribe to that thinking. I do believe that we have better players than Bayern and that does not make me arrogant, they had one great season but did not play the type of football Barca are capable of not by a long shot. Their advantage over Barca is mainly tactical and also a little physical, Heynckes got it spot on last year and Tito got it very wrong and our players gave up after the first leg so it was not the real Barca in terms of performance, fitness or attitude.

And I can't believe people have given up on Xavi, he has had one so so season and you write him off as easy as that. Puyol is nearing retirement that is true and we need to fix our defence both in terms of personnel and tactical changes.


Our players are definitely not better than theirs. Bar Messi, Iniesta, and Busquets, there is not one player Not to mention that they have insane squad balance and depth, not needing to rely on this false pride of "better star players" when they are a better team.

I know how good the Barca players can be but you have obviously forgotten if you think that there is not one player in the Barca squad outside of the 3 you mentioned that can match up to their Bayern counterparts.

As I said before, this season I'm pretty sure we'll be a much better team than we were before and more competitive vs top sides. However, you have to show respect and humility to the team that is very obviously superior to us right now, it's just posterboy "cocky Barca fan" to keep ranting on about how we supposedly have better this or better that when actual competitions have said otherwise.

I did not disrespect Bayern in any way I just stated my opinion that we have better players and that we can beat them, nothing wrong with that. If you want people to bow down to the Germans then that is your problem. They are not obviously superior either, they were over those 2 games but as I stated above we did not do ourselves justice at all and there is no way the players are going to let that happen again. The competitions proved that Bayern were better last year but that means nothing now.

If we can get back to our peak performance then yes I do think we can beat Bayern, is that so hard to believe? Just recently both Graeme Souness and Glenn Hoddle gave their opinion that Barca have better players and if they sort out there defence they can dominate again so I'm not the only one. I am not jumping on the Bayern bandwagon after one season they have a lot to prove. Things can change very quickly in this sport, it would not surprise me at all to see Bayern struggle this year in Europe now that teams will be set out to stop them which is something we have had to deal with for 5 years.
 

footyfan

Calma, calma
Bayern have reached the champions league final 3 times in the last 4 seasons. That's as many as barca have reached in the past 8 seasons.

Bayern did not suddenly become very good this season.
 
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ebc_99

Active member
Bayern are a great side, the best in the world last season and have been a threat for a few years now, but they do not capture the imagination like Barca.

Bayern are like a machine, easy to admire but Barca are magical they captivated and inspired people all over the world with their unique style of play that dozens of teams have tried to replicate and that is a legacy that is worth more than any trophy.

Bayern are a long way from ever getting to that point, they probably never will. How some people have forgotten how great we can be is beyond me, we are the only team in modern football history that played the same way no matter who the opposition or the occasion, because we were so good. Every other team adapted to stop us, even Bayern but Barca just played their own style.

If we can just sort out the obvious issues in the team particularly the defense and bring back the pressing we missed then we can still be the best in Europe again, we certainly have the players which was my original point .

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 

Die Bayern

New member
^ Barca under Pep was one, if not the best sides I have ever seen. Those were the times when your team was magical. Last year with Tito, and I'm afraid to tell you this, Barcelona looked boring for most of the season. That is my personal opinion and many may not share it, but that magic was gone for most of last season. Maybe Martino will bring some of it back, I don't know, but I sincerely want him to do it. I have no ill feelings towards Barcelona and admire your team greatly so definitely wouldn't wish you guys anything bad like some members here are doing towards my team.
 

ebc_99

Active member
^ Barca under Pep was one, if not the best sides I have ever seen. Those were the times when your team was magical. Last year with Tito, and I'm afraid to tell you this, Barcelona looked boring for most of the season. That is my personal opinion and many may not share it, but that magic was gone for most of last season. Maybe Martino will bring some of it back, I don't know, but I sincerely want him to do it. I have no ill feelings towards Barcelona and admire your team greatly so definitely wouldn't wish you guys anything bad like some members here are doing towards my team.

You are right they were boring last season and the magic was gone, I just hope they get it back and think they will. It would be one hell of a tie if Bayern and Barca go head to head at full strength.
 

ShandyFFM

New member
Perhaps you guys found it a bit boring because you have been used to it over the years. And although because barca made so little changes to he squad in recent years. More than two new players a season is very rare
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Some people think we stand no chance against Munich but I don't subscribe to that thinking. I do believe that we have better players than Bayern and that does not make me arrogant, they had one great season but did not play the type of football Barca are capable of not by a long shot. Their advantage over Barca is mainly tactical and also a little physical, Heynckes got it spot on last year and Tito got it very wrong and our players gave up after the first leg so it was not the real Barca in terms of performance, fitness or attitude.

And I can't believe people have given up on Xavi, he has had one so so season and you write him off as easy as that. Puyol is nearing retirement that is true and we need to fix our defence both in terms of personnel and tactical changes.




I know how good the Barca players can be but you have obviously forgotten if you think that there is not one player in the Barca squad outside of the 3 you mentioned that can match up to their Bayern counterparts.



I did not disrespect Bayern in any way I just stated my opinion that we have better players and that we can beat them, nothing wrong with that. If you want people to bow down to the Germans then that is your problem. They are not obviously superior either, they were over those 2 games but as I stated above we did not do ourselves justice at all and there is no way the players are going to let that happen again. The competitions proved that Bayern were better last year but that means nothing now.

If we can get back to our peak performance then yes I do think we can beat Bayern, is that so hard to believe? Just recently both Graeme Souness and Glenn Hoddle gave their opinion that Barca have better players and if they sort out there defence they can dominate again so I'm not the only one. I am not jumping on the Bayern bandwagon after one season they have a lot to prove. Things can change very quickly in this sport, it would not surprise me at all to see Bayern struggle this year in Europe now that teams will be set out to stop them which is something we have had to deal with for 5 years.

-You really think that Bayern are only one season wonders after winning a treble and that everyone who acknowledges their superiority is "jumping on the Bayern bandwagon"!?!?! Talk about denial. They won their league and domestic cup with little to no challenge, and in the CL they downed and destroyed even the best of teams. You can't simply overlook a 7-0 defeat with massive domination on their part as only 2 games, yet go ranting on about random Barca hypotheticals that supposedly put us above them. Not only us, they even crushed Juventus (2nd best defense in Europe) 4-0 on aggregate. This was no random, lucky season without indication of their ability, they were and still as are as good as the season displayed.

-There is no way that you could name one player other than those 3 for Barca that really are superior to their Bayern counterparts. I'd like to see you try to name one without spewing deluded bias behind it. Player wise and tactics wise they are so much superior and balanced right now. Not to mention that having one Messi doesn't give us some massive advantage to several WC players on their team. Stop talking about how good they "can be" as if they just pick a game to revert back to their in prime levels when Barca was on top, it's about how good they are now and that clearly doesn't put things in their favor. As for Xvi, he's 34. He hasn't lost even a shred of importance in the team, but he has lost a LOT of physical endurance and the cutting edge he had at his peak. He had maybe 2-3 games last season that were reminiscent of his best play, I'm willing to bet he'll gravitate closer to those less spectacular performances than leap all the way back to his prime season.

-The way you go on about "only one season" and then talking about our past dominance proves nothing. This season you're talking about was this past season, not 10 years ago. They aren't just Inter or anyone who collapses after one successful season. You are overlooking almost all of the main factors to come to your wild conclusion that we are somehow neck and neck with them and that we have a likely chance of winning. Open your eyes, our players are as good as they have shown through their current/recent play, not as good as you believe they "can be". Your entire mindset is strange, jumping through hoops and straining to find legitimate ways to put Bayern down, yet wildly fantasizing about our current levels as if everything that could possibly go absolutely perfect will and all our players will magically return to the levels they were during our dominance.

-Will we be better this season? Obviously. Will we lose 7-0 to Bayern if we play them this season? No, the game would be much closer than that. However how is there any logic that shows we'll go on a complete 180 degree turn within a single season and dethrone them with little to no indication that we've made a jump to their level in any significant way.
 

ebc_99

Active member
-You really think that Bayern are only one season wonders after winning a treble and that everyone who acknowledges their superiority is "jumping on the Bayern bandwagon"!?!?! Talk about denial. They won their league and domestic cup with little to no challenge, and in the CL they downed and destroyed even the best of teams. You can't simply overlook a 7-0 defeat with massive domination on their part as only 2 games, yet go ranting on about random Barca hypotheticals that supposedly put us above them. Not only us, they even crushed Juventus (2nd best defense in Europe) 4-0 on aggregate. This was no random, lucky season without indication of their ability, they were and still as are as good as the season displayed.

FIrst of all, get off your high horse. You have called me biased, deluded, arrogant and in denial with a strange mindset over your last 3 posts, not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you and it does not mean you are right either or smarter as you so obviously think you are. Things can change very quickly in sport which is something you should also bear in mind.

Bayern are a great team as I have acknowledged, but my original point I made on Thursday afternoon was that we can beat them which is true, we can. I don't understand why you have such a problem with that, it is not beyond the realms of possibility after all. I also suggested that we have better players, it is my belief that this is the case and I stand by it. I think we have a better midfield, a better forward line and comparable full backs, their central defense is superior and their goalkeeper too. Our main problem is tactical not our players, If we can sort those issues out then yes I think we can beat Bayern.


-There is no way that you could name one player other than those 3 for Barca that really are superior to their Bayern counterparts. I'd like to see you try to name one without spewing deluded bias behind it. Player wise and tactics wise they are so much superior and balanced right now. Not to mention that having one Messi doesn't give us some massive advantage to several WC players on their team. Stop talking about how good they "can be" as if they just pick a game to revert back to their in prime levels when Barca was on top, it's about how good they are now and that clearly doesn't put things in their favor. As for Xvi, he's 34. He hasn't lost even a shred of importance in the team, but he has lost a LOT of physical endurance and the cutting edge he had at his peak. He had maybe 2-3 games last season that were reminiscent of his best play, I'm willing to bet he'll gravitate closer to those less spectacular performances than leap all the way back to his prime season.

I can name one player, Cesc Fabregas that would start for Bayern and another Dani Alves, and another Neymar, and another Xavi. My opinions are not biased or deluded, I really do believe these players are better than Bayern's, Alba too is a good as Alaba. Ribery on form was better last season than Neymar, but I believe the Brazilian has more talent and that he is at the right club to fullfil his promise. As I said already, or main problem is tactical.

You are writing Xavi off too quickly, just as people did with Pirlo after one average season.

Why can't I talk about how good they can be, what is the point of the forum if not to give opinions on the club. P;ayers do not just lose their abilty, they need the right environment to fulfill their potential, look at the difference Guardiola made in 2008 when he took over with pretty much the same team, and again we have a new coach and I am optimistic he can have a similar effect.


-The way you go on about "only one season" and then talking about our past dominance proves nothing. This season you're talking about was this past season, not 10 years ago. They aren't just Inter or anyone who collapses after one successful season. You are overlooking almost all of the main factors to come to your wild conclusion that we are somehow neck and neck with them and that we have a likely chance of winning. Open your eyes, our players are as good as they have shown through their current/recent play, not as good as you believe they "can be". Your entire mindset is strange, jumping through hoops and straining to find legitimate ways to put Bayern down, yet wildly fantasizing about our current levels as if everything that could possibly go absolutely perfect will and all our players will magically return to the levels they were during our dominance.

The part in bold is absolute rubbish,if you honestly think that last years performance was all our team can give then you are mad. I have also not put Bayern down once in any of my posts I do not know where you got that from.

-Will we be better this season? Obviously. Will we lose 7-0 to Bayern if we play them this season? No, the game would be much closer than that. However how is there any logic that shows we'll go on a complete 180 degree turn within a single season and dethrone them with little to no indication that we've made a jump to their level in any significant way.

Look at the jump the team made from 2007/08 to 2008/09, with the same players over both seasons we improved a great deal. Why can't that happen again? Our players are young enough and good enough.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
FIrst of all, get off your high horse. You have called me biased, deluded, arrogant and in denial with a strange mindset over your last 3 posts, not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you and it does not mean you are right either or smarter as you so obviously think you are. Things can change very quickly in sport which is something you should also bear in mind.

Things can change very quickly, and obviously people are allowed to have different opinions, but it is wishful thinking to say that every single thing will go perfect for Barca the way you picture it with every player mounting back to peak form and for Bayern to struggle in Europe just because they are now targeted. The gap can definitely decrease by a lot, but show a little humility and rationality in terms of expectations. Barca are no shit club, but this is too challenging to accomplish in a single season, we are in a transitional period and Bayern is still growing as a team. Sure we "can" beat them, the possibility is there, but it's not a likely outcome the way things are looking. I'd love for it to happen, but I personally doubt it.

I can name one player, Cesc Fabregas that would start for Bayern and another Dani Alves, and another Neymar, and another Xavi. My opinions are not biased or deluded, I really do believe these players are better than Bayern's, Alba too is a good as Alaba. Ribery on form was better last season than Neymar, but I believe the Brazilian has more talent and that he is at the right club to fullfil his promise. As I said already, or main problem is tactical.

You are writing Xavi off too quickly, just as people did with Pirlo after one average season.

Why can't I talk about how good they can be, what is the point of the forum if not to give opinions on the club. Players do not just lose their abilty, they need the right environment to fulfill their potential, look at the difference Guardiola made in 2008 when he took over with pretty much the same team, and again we have a new coach and I am optimistic he can have a similar effect.

Fabregas is, at his best, better than Muller, Gotze, or Kroos, however we'll have to see if he can continue his form for an entire season. Alves is definitely not better than Lahm, that reeks of bias, he was back in his prime (only in attack, not in defense) but he has declined. Players don't lose ability overnight, but they do lose it over a period of time. Same deal for Xavi, he can improve with more rest and movement in front of him, but his best years are behind him and Schweinsteiger is currently better from any objective eye. Especially if we incorporate pressing, Xavi can't keep it up as well as he did in years past. I don't even know how Neymar vs Ribery is even debatable. Ribery has been among the best for years, and has upped his performances even more recently. Neymar hasn't even played a league game for Barca yet, he is currently far more about promise and potential than current ability and is not comparable to Ribery.

I know you feel better bringing up how good they "can be" based on their prime levels before, but that really indicates very little. Which is closer to indicating a player's current and future performance, how they were in recent seasons or how they were way back when they were in their prime? Players age and change, you're not going to see someone like Ronaldinho or Eto'o take Europe by storm again based off of what their top levels were.

The part in bold is absolute rubbish,if you honestly think that last years performance was all our team can give then you are mad. I have also not put Bayern down once in any of my posts I do not know where you got that from.

Whoever said it was only last season that shows what they can give? The system deteriorated the players quite a bit too, that much is acknowledged. However as I said before recent performance is far more indicative in aging players than performances of several years ago. Plus, I doubt you could really classify what I said there as "rubbish" coming from a person who actually thinks Alves and Neymar are better than Lahm and Ribery.

Also, how could you possibly rationalize saying that Bayern players aren't as good as they seem after a good season and that it's all "form", yet Barca players are much better than they seem after a bad one?

Look at the jump the team made from 2007/08 to 2008/09, with the same players over both seasons we improved a great deal. Why can't that happen again? Our players are young enough and good enough.

That happened by removing our old, dead wood players and replacing them with in prime ones. Right now, we still have our old players and even the newer ones are very young and far from at their peaks. Not to mention that I doubt a change as drastic as the one Guardiola brought on will come again. We'll evolve a lot and reinvigorate, but I don't think it's realistic to assume it will be just as massive of a change.

All these points are insanely optimistic, technically there is a chance, but very against the odds. If you're trying to prove the case and scenario in which the outcome is possible, then yeah the points could have some support. However this isn't nearly solid enough to make a strong case for saying that Barca beating Bayern is probable.
 
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ebc_99

Active member
You made some good points DonAndres, but I am a fairly optimistic person on the whole and and I do believe we can reach the top again this season and I hope I am right so lets agree to disagree.
 

Hamzah

High Definition Member
I think that talk is nonsense. Our players will return to former levels under the new coach, and I look forward to facing Bayern, a lot of doubters will shut their mouths when we beat them. The hype around Gwardjola's project is irritating and we aren't being given enough credit.

Even last year we were going very well before Titos problem. That ruined our season. Under a new coach we will have stability, we have bought Neymar who is an upgrade in our forward department, and we will play to our full level.
 
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