Bundesliga 2013/2014

[suckabov]

No, it's not just current supremacy. As I said, if they continue to play at that high level, and if other teams continue to drop points, they should deservedly win the title. That is not the problem. The problem is that on the long run, no team can compete with them, partly because of financial reasons, partly because of stupid management, although those two go hand in hand. I sincerely hope BVB will make it and not turn out to be a few-seasons-wonder. But if you look at the Bundesliga and it's history, it's clear that no team has ever managed that.

Of course Bayern's wealth is well deserved, Hoeneß is a genius of a manager and president. Losing him, if you do, will be a huge blow to the club. I'm not blaming Bayern for it. But it's quite understandable why others don't find the BuLi that appealing. Of course it's similar in la liga, but there you have at least two teams, supposing that Atletico won't stay a title contender forever.

 

[AfricanBavarian]

I don't know if someone mentioned this but teams like Bayer 04, Hamburg SV, and Wolfsburg have the financial means but poor management has really crippled those teams over they years.....

 

[Luftstalag14]

If the Bayern of the Jupp/Pep era were playing in England, Spain or Italy instead of Germany, they would still top those leagues and you would make the same comment about the respective league, instead of the Bundesliga.

Perhaps, however Bayern wouldn't have been the clear and no suspense winner like it is in the Buli today. The fact of the matter is, no other team in the Buli can compete with Bayern these days, the Buli, as much as Bayern management enjoys boasting about it, has ever more so become a one horse league. Buli is like the effect the USA has on any international basketball tournament. Pretty soon people will be losing interest.

 

[suckabov]

I don't know if someone mentioned this but teams like Bayer 04, Hamburg SV, and Wolfsburg have the financial means but poor management has really crippled those teams over they years.....

Yeah, that's why I said poor financial means or crappy management. Both are intertwined though. That's why Klopp is such an amazing manager for Borussia, making a mid-table financially broken team a CL finalist with clever spending. I don't even want to blame Bayern, it's not their fault that they have a genius as a president and clever financing. It's just so boring for non-supporters of Bayern to follow the BuLi, when you know that if Bayern don't win it this year, they will next year.

Perhaps, however Bayern wouldn't have been the clear and no suspense winner like it is in the Buli today. The fact of the matter is, no other team in the Buli can compete with Bayern these days, the Buli, as much as Bayern management enjoys boasting about it, has ever more so become a one horse league. Buli is like the effect the USA has on any international basketball tournament. Pretty soon people will be losing interest.

Not only these days, but for the last few decades. And Bayern hasn't always been the quality team it is now, not even close. Still with some guarantee winning the title every other year. I like it that Ryu is promoting the BuLi, it is definitely an exciting league, but it's only exciting if you care about places 2-18.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

It's just so boring for non-supporters of Bayern to follow the BuLi, when you know that if Bayern don't win it this year, they will next year.

It's just so boring for non-supporters of Barca to follow La Liga, when you know that if Barca don't win it this year, they will next year.

 

[suckabov]

It's just so boring for non-supporters of Barca to follow La Liga, when you know that if Barca don't win it this year, they will next year.

You've kindly ignored my comments about la liga. If you read again, I said it's similar in la liga, but there you have at least two horses, don't you? Also it's been that way for decades, which isn't the case for Barca.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

You've kindly ignored my comments about la liga. If you read again, I said it's similar in la liga, but there you have at least two horses, don't you? Also it's been that way for decades, which isn't the case for Barca.

No, I didn't ignore those remarks. But if you look at the past decade, my slight modification to your statement about the Bundesliga holds water. And does it really matter whether it's always 'Barca-Barca-R.Madrid-Barca-R.Madrid-R.Madrid-Barca-Barca' or 'Bayern-Bayern-Dortmund-Dortmund-Bayern-Wolfsburg-Bayern-Bayern-Stuttgart-Bayern'?
You could even argue the latter is more exciting since you have more than just two teams winning the league.

 

[Die Bayern]

Perhaps, however Bayern wouldn't have been the clear and no suspense winner like it is in the Buli today. The fact of the matter is, no other team in the Buli can compete with Bayern these days, the Buli, as much as Bayern management enjoys boasting about it, has ever more so become a one horse league. Buli is like the effect the USA has on any international basketball tournament. Pretty soon people will be losing interest.

Funny you should mention that, as in recent years the league was won by teams like Werder Bremen, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and Dortmund. I wonder, who, apart from Barcelona, Madrid and Valencia won La Liga recently?

You can't say the league is a 1 horse race, based on an incredible season, that is unlikely to be repeated ever again. Bayern is looking very strong, but that factor of unpredictability has not been lost. No one expected some of those teams to win the League, yet it happened. The competition is very much there, and it is exactly that rise of Dortmund that has pushed us to become the team we are now.

Anyway, comparisons like that are stupid in my opinion, obviously you guys will stick to your points, while we to ours. Both leagues can definitely stand to have more competition, that's for sure.

 

[suckabov]

I didn't even make my point for la liga, at all. As I said, la liga has similar problems, that's why like neither too much. In my opinion the premier league is more exciting than both la liga and bundesliga; one can't argue against it being the most open league.

As for bundesliga, I'd like some more clubs to rise to financial and of course footballing power. A more or less even battle of BVB, Schalke, Leverkusen, Gladbach, Bayern would be great. Let's hope some of those clubs, maybe Dortmund, manage to establish that power, not only for a few seasons (as has been the case with most clubs in the past), but for the long run. With Klopp haxing extended his contract, Dortmund should be okay at least for the next few years.

Other than that, I agree the bundesliga can be exciting, just more regarding mid-table or lower table teams than regarding the title race in my opinion. Even with Dortmund being up there with Bayern.

 

[DennyCrane]

If one wants more competition in the BuLi in the long-term, it is a must to abolish the 50+1 rule and open up to investment groups - which will never happen since the established clubs will do anything to prevent that while telling the shallow-brained public some fairytales about tradition and the true spirit of sports.

 

[The Observer]

I don't think Dortmund will be okay at all, despite Klopp. You can't lose talent like Götze, Kagawa, Lewandowski, most likely Gündogan as well pretty soon, some of them directly to their main rivals, and just keep going at the same level. Especially not when competing against financial giants like Bayern. Klopp's system, which mainly consists of tremendous collective workrate (they ran 10 km more than Arsenal, 1 km more per player), can get them only that far. Particularly since Bayern have already "copied" that approach as Klopp himself bemoaned (in reality Pep was the first one to reintroduce high pressure in Europe anyway so Klopp "copied" it himself) so they don't even hold a big advantage there anymore.

Bundesliga has always been a 1 horse race which is why it never really interested me despite being German. It's always just a matter of Bayern becoming bored or not.

Premier League is indeed the most balanced league, especially right now. But the football is extremely ugly except Arsenal and some midtable teams like Southampton or Swansea that are being coached by ex La Liga managers.

La Liga has the best balance for me. It's a 2 horce race but at least it IS a 2 horce race and not a 1 horse race. Atletico have now become a proper team as well who can challenge any team. The rest might not be as good result-wise but at least they too play easy-on-the-eye and bold football, except maybe Levante.

I have this theory that pretty much every La Liga team only lacks 1 or 2 world class strikers to convert all their chances and they'd all be able to goe toe-to-toe with any team. I wonder how Manchester United would fare against Real Sociedad if they'd swap Rooney and van Persie with Vela and Agirretxe. I'm sure Real Sociedad would create a lot more than forcing 1 own goal in 180 minutes then.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

Premier League is indeed the most balanced league, especially right now. But the football is extremely ugly except Arsenal and some midtable teams like Southampton or Swansea that are being coached by ex La Liga managers.

Liverpool and City play pretty nice football, and United, Chelsea and even Spurs have the potential to but half of the time don't.

 

[suckabov]

I don't think Dortmund will be okay at all, despite Klopp. You can't lose talent like Götze, Kagawa, Lewandowski, most likely Gündogan as well pretty soon, some of them directly to their main rivals, and just keep going at the same level. Especially not when competing against financial giants like Bayern. Klopp's system, which mainly consists of tremendous collective workrate (they ran 10 km more than Arsenal, 1 km more per player), can get them only that far. Particularly since Bayern have already "copied" that approach as Klopp himself bemoaned (in reality Pep was the first one to reintroduce high pressure in Europe anyway so Klopp "copied" it himself) so they don't even hold a big advantage there anymore.

Bundesliga has always been a 1 horse race which is why it never really interested me despite being German. It's always just a matter of Bayern becoming bored or not.

Premier League is indeed the most balanced league, especially right now. But the football is extremely ugly except Arsenal and some midtable teams like Southampton or Swansea that are being coached by ex La Liga managers.

La Liga has the best balance for me. It's a 2 horce race but at least it IS a 2 horce race and not a 1 horse race. Atletico have now become a proper team as well who can challenge any team. The rest might not be as good result-wise but at least they too play easy-on-the-eye and bold football, except maybe Levante.



I have this theory that pretty much every La Liga team only lacks 1 or 2 world class strikers to convert all their chances and they'd all be able to goe toe-to-toe with any team. I wonder how Manchester United would fare against Real Sociedad if they'd swap Rooney and van Persie with Vela and Agirretxe. I'm sure Real Sociedad would create a lot more than forcing 1 own goal in 180 minutes then.

Yeah, but I meant more from a financial perspective, and used Klopp as a pars pro toto representing the whole management. For a fact, they have managed to recover after nearly collapsing financially and in the past few years have done some of the most clever business in Europe. That's why I don't think they'll have many problems in that respect. Of course they still can't compete with Bayern, but at least they won't get into the same shithole they were in a few years ago, at least hopefully. Football-wise, you are right, with constantly being in danger of some players leaving, Dortmund are faced with a Alice in Wonderland-esque challenge: "it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place".

Completely agree with the rest of your post. Good point about the la liga teams. In general, Barca's and RM's scores in some games are rather misleading and more due to Messi/Ronaldo scoring streaks than to the teams being especially weak.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

If one wants more competition in the BuLi in the long-term, it is a must to abolish the 50+1 rule and open up to investment groups - which will never happen since the established clubs will do anything to prevent that while telling the shallow-brained public some fairytales about tradition and the true spirit of sports.

Oh, of course... those of us who despise the likes of PSG, Monaco, City, Chelsea etc for whoring themselves out to big Arab and Russian corporate oil money are shallow minded. Right...

 

[DennyCrane]

Oh, of course... those of us who despise the likes of PSG, Monaco, City, Chelsea and the likes for whoring themselves out to big Arab and Russian corporate oil money are shallow minded. Right...

Whoring themselves out ? In other news, I'm talking about competition in the BuLi.

Nevertheless, please be so kind to explain the ethical difference between clubs run by investment groups and clubs that are organized as stock corporations and PLCs' who have their shares owned by large-scale investors with a marginal spread, up to the magical 24 or 49 % ? Exactly, there is none. Both are funded from the outside.

btw. who is this neboulous "us" and "we" everyone keeps referring to ?