Cesc Fàbregas

[JackaL]

The same goes for Alexis! It seemed to be one of his best individual seasons! What we lack is squad depth not necessarily quality!

 

[Sumlit]

Whether I agree with the assessment on Koke doesn't matter. Nevertheless, the correct order should be securing Koke or someone and then --> sell Cesc, not the other way around, which seems to be what our board is doing.

You're not taking into account the fact the team and Lucho might just not have Cesc in the future plans, regardless of the acquisition or not of a superior talented replacement. If they simple don't count on Cesc going forward, selling him now when his value is at it's peak makes the most sense. They don't even necessarily have to replace him with an equally or more talented player. If they feel a lesser overall talent like Rakitic or Ander Herrera fits better with their vision of the team going forward, and even still if they feel those types of player would offer a better role and/or be more malleable to the coaches desires and requirements, why would it be better to keep the player just because "he is too good to let go."

Guardiola got rid of world class talent like Ronaldinho and Deco, and replaced them with what everyone would admit were inferior choices at the time in Keita and 20 year old Busquets. Why? Because he had a vision. Might as well be that Lucho thinks Rafinha and Koke or Rakitic will fit better in his vision for his project that Cesc, more talented that he may be.

 

[DinhoR10]

Selling Ronaldinho and Deco would be like Selling Messi and Iniesta right now

The problem with Cesc is not his talent but the fact that he just doesn't fit in with this Barca squad, he's fine in spain, because VdB knows how to use him well with everyone else on the pitch.

 

[Luftstalag14]

You're not taking into account the fact the team and Lucho might just not have Cesc in the future plans, regardless of the acquisition or not of a superior talented replacement. If they simple don't count on Cesc going forward, selling him now when his value is at it's peak makes the most sense. They don't even necessarily have to replace him with an equally or more talented player. If they feel a lesser overall talent like Rakitic or Ander Herrera fits better with their vision of the team going forward, and even still if they feel those types of player would offer a better role and/or be more malleable to the coaches desires and requirements, why would it be better to keep the player just because "he is too good to let go."

Guardiola got rid of world class talent like Ronaldinho and Deco, and replaced them with what everyone would admit were inferior choices at the time in Keita and 20 year old Busquets. Why? Because he had a vision. Might as well be that Lucho thinks Rafinha and Koke or Rakitic will fit better in his vision for his project that Cesc, more talented that he may be.

Are we THAT good that there is no room for someone like Cesc on the team anymore? What about depth? And exactly how does Koke or Rakitic fit the bill better than Cesc?

Even if all of that is true, selling Cesc for a paltry 35m while Koke goes for 60m and Rakitic goes for 50m, is hardly cashing in on him at his peak value. Not to mention we won't be getting all the proceeds from his sale.

The whole thing just screams stupidity of the highest order to me, from every perspective.

 

[Flavia]

Are we THAT good that there is no room for someone like Cesc on the team anymore? What about depth? And exactly how does Koke or Rakitic fit the bill better than Cesc?

Even if all of that is true, selling Cesc for a paltry 35m while Koke goes for 60m and Rakitic goes for 50m, is hardly cashing in on him at his peak value. Not to mention we won't be getting all the proceeds from his sale.

The whole thing just screams stupidity of the highest order to me, from every perspective.

That's not the problem. The problem is Cesc doesn't fit in the team. 3 seasons have passed and he still has no clear role. The myopic vision was to sell thiago, who was a better fit to the team, instead of cesc, last summer. Now they're trying to fix this problem. It really doesn't matter how good cesc is, if he can't fit. The team certainly won't be build around him.

 

[Luftstalag14]

That's not the problem. The problem is Cesc doesn't fit in the team. 3 seasons have passed and he still has no clear role. The myopic vision was to sell thiago, who was a better fit to the team, instead of cesc, last summer. Now they're trying to fix this problem. It really doesn't matter how good cesc is, if he can't fit. The team certainly won't be build around him.

No one is asking the team to be built around Cesc though. Not a good fit? In terms of what, and how is that measured? And what role should he assume, or has been assigned to him that he did so poorly allegedly?

Cesc did have many poor games for sure, but so did everyone else. Can anyone name one player that is more consistent than Cesc in the last couple of seasons, other than Messi and Valdes? I remember when Cesc came on as a sub in numerous games where he made a clear difference. His assist number alone speaks volumes to his value. His through balls, his vision are among the best. I maintain that we very much need him, we don't have the luxury of getting rid of him simply because he "does not fit", whatever that means.

 

[Sumlit]

Are we THAT good that there is no room for someone like Cesc on the team anymore? What about depth? And exactly how does Koke or Rakitic fit the bill better than Cesc?

Even if all of that is true, selling Cesc for a paltry 35m while Koke goes for 60m and Rakitic goes for 50m, is hardly cashing in on him at his peak value. Not to mention we won't be getting all the proceeds from his sale.

The whole thing just screams stupidity of the highest order to me, from every perspective.

You're not understanding the point. If Cesc isn't trusted going forward and is not part of the new project, then keeping him makes little sense when he is right now at the cusp of his downward trend in value. You'd just be keeping Cesc so he can languish in the bench as a forgotten option, or worse taking inefficient minutes from younger players and/or creating problems because of unhappiness, all the while losing value until you inevitably sell him for a lesser value afterwards.

If the coach has a vision and a plan going forward, even a lesser player talentwise might still be a better option than another with all the talent in the world, but still not the right composition for what the project dictates.

 

[Luftstalag14]

You're not understanding the point. If Cesc isn't trusted going forward and is not part of the new project, then keeping him makes little sense when he is right now at the cusp of his downward trend in value. You'd just be keeping Cesc so he can languish in the bench as a forgotten option, or worse taking inefficient minutes from younger players and/or creating problems because of unhappiness, all the while losing value until you inevitably sell him for a lesser value afterwards.

If the coach has a vision and a plan going forward, even a lesser player talentwise might still be a better option than another with all the talent in the world, but still not the right composition for what the project dictates.

I get your point, I just disagree with your assessment of Cesc. I just failed to see how and why he is not a good fit, compared to other players.

And from the monetary perspective, I guess the rationale is, "We know we are losing money to sell Cesc and shell out more € to buy another midfielder, but we believe the new midfielder we are getting will bring us a lot if success that Cesc is incapable of bringing; therefore in the long run it will be a good deal"?

Again, huge gamble.

 

[Ursegor]

He is not a good fit because he's not a (good) central midfielder. About 5 bazillion coaches have prefered him either as a #10 or as a false striker for a good reason. This trend already began with Wenger by the way and is not limited to Spanish coaches who have a weird vision of football. He was the most advanced midfielder of all of Wilshere, Song, Denilson, Diaby. About 6 bazillion people have explained this about 7 bazillion times. He is a player in the mould of Mata, Silva, Kagawa, Özil. The guy himself compares himself to Özil and not to Xavi. Him playing in central midfield is an absurd idea although it can kinda work in the Premier League because they are tactically and technically the most inferior top league, even behind France. Even Steven Gerrard works as a deep-lying playmaker there (lmao). And yes, even Ander Herrera can fullfil Xavi's role better than Cesc at Barca.

If you still don't see why he is not a good fit you simply don't want to see it.

 

[Sumlit]

I get your point, I just disagree with your assessment of Cesc. I just failed to see how and why he is not a good fit, compared to other players.

And from the monetary perspective, I guess the rationale is, "We know we are losing money to sell Cesc and shell out more € to buy another midfielder, but we believe the new midfielder we are getting will bring us a lot if success that Cesc is incapable of bringing; therefore in the long run it will be a good deal"?

Again, huge gamble.

I'm not saying this to be disrespectful, but what you see does not matter. I am putting myself in their shoes and giving you a reason why they might be thinking of selling him. Lucho might just not have Cesc in his plans and his vision of the team. This is a real possibility and no amount of talent of Cesc's can change this. It does not matter what you, or I, or anyone else thinks. What matters is what the coach has in mind.

Juan Mata might have more talent than many current Chelsea midfielders, yet Mourinho still sold him. Why? Because Mata did not fit in Mou's vision and he could get money from him instead of letting the player languish on the bench and using him sporadically.

Talent isn't everything.

As to the money part, I don't see the losing money part. Cesc will be sold for no less than he was bought, you can count on that. There won't be money lost on his transaction and it's likely there'll be money won.

 

[Ursegor]

Mata is actually a very good example. Another completely overhyped player (and I was telling you this when Benitez was still coach and he got all the hype, check his thread) based on meaningless assist numbers. A top manager like Mourinho getting rid off him and ripping of a clueless Moyes in the process was absolutely fitting.

 

[Sumlit]

Mata is actually a very good example. Another completely overhyped player (and I was telling you this when Benitez was still coach and he got all the hype, check his thread) based on meaningless assist numbers. A top manager like Mourinho getting rid off him and ripping of a clueless Moyes in the process was absolutely fitting.

Mata artificially inflated his value nicely by being the only halfway technically decent player in that god forsaken aberration that was the Villas-Boas/Di Matteo Chelsea of the 2 years before Mou. You know that saying, "in the house of the blind, the one eye man is king"

Still don't have a clue how they ripped off Man U for so much money for him.

 

[Ursegor]

Still don't have a clue how they ripped off Man U for so much money for him.

Well, they appointed a coach who bought Fellaini to strengthen the midfield. And a sporting director who approved the signing for > € 30M. It's like having Zubi but more incompetent. I know, I know, it sounds unrealistic. Like breaking the speed of light barrier. But it's true.

 

[Sumlit]

Well, they appointed a coach who bought Fellaini to strengthen the midfield. And a sporting director who approved the signing for > € 30M. It's like having Zubi but more incompetent. I know, I know, it sounds unrealistic. Like breaking the speed of light barrier. But it's true.

I forgot about Fellaini. yikes.

 

[Butaan4barca]

1. We need someone to play in deeper role probably to add more balance to the team.
2. Someone in the midfield to add more to defense as the team is over ambitious and with too many attackers who don't add to defense