Champions league 09-10

[Hamzah]

milan will last forever chelsea and city will sink into obscurity at some point.

 

[Beast]

Better players, better tactics and a bit of luck are what win matches. Not culture !

There is no divine reason a club would play better because of their history.



So if we (England) put out our first team and they put out a worse team, they would still win? No matter who was playing for us?

It's very predictable (and understandable ) that you feel this way or want to feel this way.. but that never happen ..
United are United , Liverpool are Liverpool and Arsenal are Arsenal .. same way Barca is Barca and Real is Real.. just because Deportivo won the league doesn't put Depor on the same level or culture as Real & Barca
can be X or Y 4th for couple of seasons or a generation but that usually end and you will be forgotten cause you're culture isn't a winning culture
for example Spain are currently the best team in the planet.. winners of Euro 2008.. but people wouldn't say there will be another similar generation in 6 years

Yet you can bet there will be another great German,Brazilian,Italian ,Argentinian and maybe a French or a Dutch every once in a while .. but the first 4 are a given

your case are similar lets say to Russia or Portugal .. u will never be among the Gemans,Italians , Brazilians of football it will always be an exception to the rule but not and won't be a power house

milan will last forever chelsea and city will sink into obscurity at some point.

that's true

 

[Samuel Eto'o]

I hope the games are better than the grouping but I doubt it.


Good luck to All Spanish teams and Juve, Lyon and Arsenal

 

[blueduck]

It's very predictable (and understandable ) that you feel this way or want to feel this way.. but that never happen ..
United are United , Liverpool are Liverpool and Arsenal are Arsenal .. same way Barca is Barca and Real is Real.. just because Deportivo won the league doesn't put Depor on the same level or culture as Real & Barca

The fact that Depor won the league shows it's not all about "culture". (Blackburn are another example)

If culture did win matches, then why do you need Ronaldo and Kaka?

Why not just keep the players you already had ? Surely your "culture" would win you trophies regardless of who is on the pitch.

 

[aRegularAce]

The ducky has a fair point Beast. I'd say a mixture of culture and (the right) players is the way to success.

About Milan, I have my doubts about them. 2 years ago they got totally outplayed by Arsenal( a young team). Ever since they needed change imo, but it never happened. I would even say; they have been on a decline for the last 2/3 years. But in football you can never really count Milan out, so let's wait and see.

 

[sammy]

I just gonna say what beast and eddie try to explain is hard to explain, cause it's not scientific explanation. But it's very true and it's real.

So if we (England) put out our first team and they put out a worse team, they would still win? No matter who was playing for us?

Duckie, you're too pragmatic and naive. Do lippi would pick players from serie B to face england? it's silly. What i'm trying to explain is even if people think for example carrick is better than, let say de rossi, or lampard is way better than aging pirlo, or gilardino is laughable compare to rooney. If they met in the WC, that italy can beat england, and that chance is bigger than england beat italy. Luckily you have capello (an italian coach). If not, england chance would become lesser. And if terry, beckham, cole, and others bring their WAG, that would be lesser.

 

[Gnegneri]

I would much rather have them in the deep and cold winter months when their season has been over for 2/3 weeks and their players are all unfit than take them in the autumn while our lads are still coming into fitness and theirs are sharp as shit in their season run-in.

Super, seems I interpreted the schedule wrongfully.


Official site says 9 dec is the game in Kiev.

 

[Beast]

Ace the right players would never win you trophies on your own look @ chelsea
.. the reason for Chelsea temp successes is plain and simple :Mourinho

He installed his TEMP winning mentality and shielded the team from anyone.. Mourinho was the Alpha and Omega at Chelsea .. when he left they couldn't win the league trophy again not with Scolari or Guus or Grant ..
As i said there is an exception and Chelsea are one ..
you can easily say in 2014 u will have a good Liverpool-Arsenal-Man United team .. but you cannot predict you will have a Chelsea among them .. considering the age factor .. we haven't see a single newcomer from the club ranks in over 6 years..
The Russian guy is fed up from spending and fun times are up ..
it will happen with the Arabs as well ..Duckie is just too naive to get it and even if he did he really don't mind ..4 -5 years under the spotlight than straight to mediocrity and relegation

The fact that Depor won the league shows it's not all about "culture". (Blackburn are another example)

If culture did win matches, then why do you need Ronaldo and Kaka?

Why not just keep the players you already had ? Surely your "culture" would win you trophies regardless of who is on the pitch.

Man you are such an idiot .. really you are one.
have you read anything i wrote little boy or u just pushed the reply button
The fact that Depor won the league ONCE..
prove you wrong..

The fact that Kaka refused your 100 Million bid and joined a 65 Million bid club with culture says it all Duckie
that's the difference between a club with culture and your kind ..

u'll attract the outcast from big clubs.. we will attract the big guys ..
we get Kaka & CR because we want to win big .. we are not hoping for a 4th position .. second in the table is NOT ENOUGH.. unlike Citeh
Look Duckie we all know why you are so defensive and touchy .. you are thinking about Citeh ... you will always be a small club .. that's something you can't change .. u can win a title but you will still be among the small one..

culture clubs don't win all the time.. but they win MOST OF THE TIME read again what i wrote kid
u'll find the blackburn's,Newcastle's and Deportivo's with a title here and there every zillion years.. It's United,Arsenal and Pool , same way it's Real or Barca , Inter,Milan or Juve..
you are not part of that and you will never be part of it.. you are inferior
.. i hope you understand cause i'm seriously beginning to think there is something terribly wrong in Manchester area from the fans we've seen in the forum

 

[sammy]

Ace the right players would never win you trophies on your own look @ chelsea
.. the reason for Chelsea temp successes is plain and simple :Mourinho

He installed his TEMP winning mentality and shielded the team from anyone.. Mourinho was the Alpha and Omega at Chelsea .. when he left they couldn't win the league trophy again not with Scolari or Guus or Grant ..
As i said there is an exception and Chelsea are one ..
you can easily say in 2014 u will have a good Liverpool-Arsenal-Man United team .. but you cannot predict you will have a Chelsea among them .. considering the age factor .. we haven't see a single newcomer from the club ranks in over 6 years..
The Russian guy is fed up from spending and fun times are up ..
it will happen with the Arabs as well ..Duckie is just too naive to get it and even if he did he really don't mind ..4 -5 years under the spotlight than straight to mediocrity and relegation


Man you are such an idiot .. really you are one.
have you read anything i wrote little boy or u just pushed the reply button
The fact that Depor won the league ONCE..
prove you wrong..

The fact that Kaka refused your 100 Million bid and joined a 65 Million bid club with culture says it all Duckie
that's the difference between a club with culture and your kind ..

u'll attract the outcast from big clubs.. we will attract the big guys ..
we get Kaka & CR because we want to win big .. we are not hoping for a 4th position .. second in the table is NOT ENOUGH.. unlike Citeh
Look Duckie we all know why you are so defensive and touchy .. you are thinking about Citeh ... you will always be a small club .. that's something you can't change .. u can win a title but you will still be among the small one..

culture clubs don't win all the time.. but they win MOST OF THE TIME read again what i wrote kid
u'll find the blackburn's,Newcastle's and Deportivo's with a title here and there every zillion years.. It's United,Arsenal and Pool , same way it's Real or Barca , Inter,Milan or Juve..
you are not part of that and you will never be part of it.. you are inferior
.. i hope you understand cause i'm seriously beginning to think there is something terribly wrong in Manchester area from the fans we've seen in the forum

Spot on beast, +1.

Unless city (and chelsea, or other dreamer) start to build their team from scrap, find a manager like shankly, and consistent for at least a decade, well.....not enough....for two decade, then you will start talking.

I give you all example, and i prefer not in football, but in nations. You all look to china. Why they are now starting to be one of the biggest and strongest economy and nations. Cause they have always been a strong nation from maybe 2500 years ago, it has been running trough their blood. Maybe egypt and the babylon of iraq someday will re-find their true identity. And for "shankly-manager" you can look to japan. They wre not that strong 200 years ago, but they this emperor, meiji. He was their "shankly".

 

[Beast]

As an expatriate who live in Egypt , even if they are not as strong or as powerful as a the Pharaohs , they are still as influential and as powerful among the entire region and people look up to them in times of crisis .
it's not just about the money but the influence and weight among rich neighbors and considered a key player in the middle east , same way China is in Asia .

 

[sammy]

Then my example, plus what eddie and gio trying to say, is right then. Russia also a backward country hundreds years ago, but thanks to their shankly, tsar peter the great, they've become the country as it is now.

By the way, what do you do in egypt gio? what's your job?

 

[antonnn]

Arguing with English people on football forums.

 

[Beast]

I work as a director (sales department ) for a group of hotels in Egypt , and i live in Cairo ..

the countries examples can't always apply though since the life span of countries rise up or fall down are usually 100's of years
but you can always feel and touch the culture in the people more than the country itself

Arguing with English people on football forums.

 

[sammy]

I know that gio, but by using country and nations as examples, it's easier to understand what you and eddie been trying to say.

 

[blueduck]

Man you are such an idiot .. really you are one.
have you read anything i wrote little boy or u just pushed the reply button
The fact that Depor won the league ONCE..
prove you wrong..

The fact that Kaka refused your 100 Million bid and joined a 65 Million bid club with culture says it all Duckie
that's the difference between a club with culture and your kind ..

u'll attract the outcast from big clubs.. we will attract the big guys ..
we get Kaka & CR because we want to win big .. we are not hoping for a 4th position .. second in the table is NOT ENOUGH.. unlike Citeh
Look Duckie we all know why you are so defensive and touchy .. you are thinking about Citeh ... you will always be a small club .. that's something you can't change .. u can win a title but you will still be among the small one..

culture clubs don't win all the time.. but they win MOST OF THE TIME read again what i wrote kid
u'll find the blackburn's,Newcastle's and Deportivo's with a title here and there every zillion years.. It's United,Arsenal and Pool , same way it's Real or Barca , Inter,Milan or Juve..
you are not part of that and you will never be part of it.. you are inferior
.. i hope you understand cause i'm seriously beginning to think there is something terribly wrong in Manchester area from the fans we've seen in the forum

Why do you have to keep trying to insult me, I haven't insulted you.

You take every discussion into "my club is better than your club". It really is pathetic. It just smacks of your arrogance, which is down to your insecurities.

I didn't choose to support a successful club, you did, and now you have to keep calling me "inferior" because I didn't choose to support a team thousands of miles away who win all the time. Which I don't really have a problem with, unless you are putting down other teams fans who didn't choose a successful club.

You also missed the point entirely, my argument was that players and tactics win matches, not culture.

(Just because a team has history (obv) doesn't guarantee they will be challenging forever. (Take Leeds are an example.) )

Maybe culture and history will bring in the better players, but that's the point, they will be the ones who win matches.