Champions League

[KingLeo10]

You mentioned Torino in 2017.
That is Juventus.
The biggest Italian team, CL oldtimer.

Napoli don't have experience in a CL as a team.
Their players individually don't have much quality or any World cup/CL top level experience.

With those kind of players, you are always one bad brainfart pass away from a disaster, everything going downhill fast and 0:5 defeats.

In one hand, City will lose from similar reasons.
Lack of a CL experience, plus of course, Pep being Pep.

We can lose only if we somehow lose 2:0 or 3:0 in the first game.

My concern is that under EV we've been super reliant on Messi magic to progress.

17-18: Chelsea (Messi 3), Roma (Messi 0 and we got KO'ed)
18-19: Lyon (Messi 2), United (Messi 2), Liverpool (Messi 2 and we STILL got KO'ed)

Basically, if Messi has an off night or two, we can say bye bye to the CL as early as R of 16 and even against Mickey Mouse teams. I don't think you understand how bad the manager and the senior citizens (Busquets, Rakitic, Suarez) are for CL level competition.

 

[malvolio]

No.
Historically, we have problems with prime Italian teams like Milan and Juve in 90s and 00s.
And Inter (when they had Mou).

Nah, Inter was just lucky that time. The volcano thing and the dubious refereeing were all against us. That Barcelona team was the best in Europe at that time.

We would have made it three in a row and history would have been different.

 

[KingLeo10]

Nah, Inter was just lucky that time. The volcano thing and the dubious refereeing were all against us. That Barcelona team was the best in Europe at that time.

We would have made it three in a row and history would have been different.

Iniesta being injured also contributed massively.

 

[malvolio]

My concern is that under EV we've been super reliant on Messi magic to progress.

17-18: Chelsea (Messi 3), Roma (Messi 0 and we got KO'ed)
18-19: Lyon (Messi 2), United (Messi 2), Liverpool (Messi 2 and we STILL got KO'ed)

Basically, if Messi has an off night or two, we can say bye bye to the CL as early as R of 16 and even against Mickey Mouse teams. I don't think you understand how bad the manager and the senior citizens (Busquets, Rakitic, Suarez) are for CL level competition.

i don't think that is much more different from what happened in the past.

it was usually the forwards who would step up(messi, suarez, neymar etc).

if we had clinical forwards in both return legs against roma and liverpool, we would have went through.

 

[KingLeo10]

i don't think that is much more different from what happened in the past.

it was usually the forwards who would step up(messi, suarez, neymar etc).

if we had clinical forwards in both return legs against roma and liverpool, we would have went through.

Agree. If we had clutch killers like Eto'o, Henry, or even a Villa in his prime, things would have been so different in so many CL campaigns.

Not having Eto'o cost us 09-10.

Villa breaking his leg cost us 11-12.

And with scorers of that caliber to help Messi, we would have won at least 1 CL between 17-18 and 18-19.

EV's greatest flaw for me is sticking to seniors who have proven to be garbage in CL (the 3 I mentioned). Alba is a 50/50 for me as well.

 

[BBZ8800]

My concern is that under EV we've been super reliant on Messi magic to progress.

17-18: Chelsea (Messi 3), Roma (Messi 0 and we got KO'ed)
18-19: Lyon (Messi 2), United (Messi 2), Liverpool (Messi 2 and we STILL got KO'ed)

Basically, if Messi has an off night or two, we can say bye bye to the CL as early as R of 16 and even against Mickey Mouse teams. I don't think you understand how bad the manager and the senior citizens (Busquets, Rakitic, Suarez) are for CL level competition.

I am not scared even the slightliest of Napoli.

I would have been scared of City and Liverpool ONLY.
And 50:50 with Bayern, Atletico.

And 70:30 against Real, Psg, Juve, Tottenham.

Imo, basically, only those two crazy running teams City and Liverpool are a real threat for us.
And maybe those two physical teams Bayern and Atletico.

Since Pep will be Pep and hopefully lose against Real, only Liverpool will be left.
But I am not too sure that Liverpool will go through either.

Liverpool could have problems against a physical Atletico, who is not playing as funky in defense as Barca and who don't have a team of midgets (at Liverpool's corners and crosses).

So, there is a nice chance that EV's black magic will work again and that both Shity and Liverpool will go out in a 1/8.

That would mean that we would have very nice chances of our 2 heros lifting a CL trophy in May of 2020:

Let's HOPE!

 

[malvolio]

EV's greatest flaw for me is sticking to seniors who have proven to be garbage in CL (the 3 I mentioned). Alba is a 50/50 for me as well.

that and i think the fact that he inherited a worse team than lucho. for me, there isn't much to choose between valverde, lucho, tata or tito. all are mediocre managers.

pep was lucky with the players he inherited but was also ruthless in his man management(also lucky here since those players were hungry to win trophies).

i don't even think that we would have needed a great tactical mastermind with the players we've had in the last 10 years. with squads as ours or madrid's is more down to managing personnel(buying/selling right, knowing who to select at a given time), working on the mentality of the team so that they don't break down under pressure and have good physical preparation.

 

[KingLeo10]

I am not scared even the slightliest of Napoli.

I would have been scared of City, Liverpool.
And 50:50 with Bayern, Atletico.

And 70:30 against Real, Psg, Juve, Tottenham.

Imo, basically, only those two crazy running teams City and Liverpool are a real threat for us.
And maybe those two physical teams Bayern and Atletico.

Since Pep will be Pep and hopefully lose against Real, only Liverpool will be left.
But I am not too sure that Liverpool will go through either.

Liverpool could have problems against a physical Atletico, who is not playing as funky in defense as Barca and who don't have a team of midgets.

So, there is a nice chance that EV's black magic will work again and that both Shity and Liverpool will go out in a 1/8.

That would mean that we would have very nice chances of our 2 heros lifting a CL trophy in May of 2020:

Let's HOPE!

Had a good LOL at that picture.

Thought you meant Messi and Raki.

But good ole EV.

 

[Newcomer]

Real - City 40-60
Atleti - Pool 35-65
Valencia - Atalanta 70-30
Spurs - RBL 55-45
Chelsea - Bayern 25-75
PSG - BVB 80-20
Juventus - Lyon 90-10
Barca - Napoli 95-5

Juventus is 100-0.

Even with red card given to Juventus players, Lyon wouldn't be able to beat them. Lyon was already the weakest team there and with their injuries, it is game over. Losing the players they lost this summer was just too big for them. Only Memphis has some quality for them.

I agree about Valencia. I think they'll win their tie. Atalanta concedes too many goals. Never good in CL.

I think PSG-BVB will be a lot closer than that. Both teams like to score but are a bit dodgy defensively. Will make for a very entertaining tie even if i hope it will be a boring PSG domination to save my poor heart.

And i definitely think Real will comfortably beat City. The games will be nice to watch and will be close most of the time but Real will be more clinical and win something like 5-3 over two legs.

Barça obviously will dispatch Napoli. Napoli is a tricky side to play against but, at the end, they always lose to the better sides. This season, they have also a lot of troubles internally.

 

[Kul_z]

I am not scared even the slightliest of Napoli.

I would have been scared of City and Liverpool ONLY.
And 50:50 with Bayern, Atletico.

And 70:30 against Real, Psg, Juve, Tottenham.

Imo, basically, only those two crazy running teams City and Liverpool are a real threat for us.
And maybe those two physical teams Bayern and Atletico.

Since Pep will be Pep and hopefully lose against Real, only Liverpool will be left.
But I am not too sure that Liverpool will go through either.

Liverpool could have problems against a physical Atletico, who is not playing as funky in defense as Barca and who don't have a team of midgets (at Liverpool's corners and crosses).

So, there is a nice chance that EV's black magic will work again and that both Shity and Liverpool will go out in a 1/8.

That would mean that we would have very nice chances of our 2 heros lifting a CL trophy in May of 2020:

Let's HOPE!

Bbz optimistic about winning cl?
Is this the real life?

 

[BBZ8800]

I agree about Valencia. I think they'll win their tie. Atalanta concedes too many goals. Never good in CL.

I am with you.
Valencia is a favorite.
Atalanta are CL rookies.
They lost 0:3 against Dinamo Zagreb, who are similar rookies.

As said, a team like them will either play 1:1 or lose 0:6 in ANY match.

Bbz optimistic about winning cl?
Is this the real life?

It is about whom we draw.
If other teams will KO City and Liverpool, we will have chances to win a CL with Raki-Busi, Raki-Arthur or even Alena.

Imo our two biggest kryptonites are City and Liverpool.
I know that a majority of our fans will cheer for City against Real, but for us it would be better if Real wins.
City will probably kill us 5:1 at Manchester.
While Real, we won like 5 out last 6 El Classsicos with Valverde iirc, with an insane goal's difference, right?
Nothing will change now with granny Kroos, granny Modric, a clown Isco and with Real's crappy attack without CR7.

From other teams, Bayern, Atletico, Tottenham and Juve could do some damage.
But with Messi on form, rest to club de amigos, no Dumbele on a field and some luck, we could win against anyone.

Also, remember, CL is a lot about a luck in a draw.
A lot of people here think that with Pep we were winning against ANYONE, but when you dig deeper, Pep played mostly against very light and technical teams.
And we usually smash those teams for fun, since always.
Teams against whom we suffered since 90s were:
1. tactical&technical&physical teams like Milan and Juve in 90s, or Juve, Bayern in the last 10-15 years.
2. dirty defensive&physical teams like Atletico 2014 and 2016 or Chelsea 2005, 2006, 2009 and Inter 2010
3. crazy fast runners like Liverpool and City lately

Also, in Pep's era, Italian teams bankrupted, Juve was relegated to a 2nd division, so we couldn't face our two biggest kryptonites Milan and Juve.
Look at Pep's draw and some luck with the opponents:
2009:
1/8: Lyon: A Mickey Mouse team, more or less
1/4: the worst Bayern in ages
1/2: Chelsea: the only true opponent, and we were on a verge of losing (ref's help and Iniesta's goal in the 93rd minute from the only shot on match).

So: we won against crappy teams and almost got KO'd by the only physical team, Chelsea.

2010:
1/8: Stuttgart. A Mickey Mouse team.
1/4: Arsenal: a naive, light and attacking team. Historically a perfect victim for us.
1/2: Inter: the first real, physical, dirty opponent=KO'd right away.

2011:
1/8: Arsenal: a light, naive, attacking team again. Piece of cake.
1/4: Shakhtar Donetsk from Ukraine: Lol. The easiest 1/4 in a history.
1/2: Real: a good team, but we usually always win against Real since Rijkaard's days.

2012:
1/8: Leverkusen: Mickey Mouse team again. 10:2 on aggreggate.
1/4: Milan: a physical team, but this was a granny, bankrupted, poor Milan. Not a good old Milan from their prime days in 90s and pre-2005.
1/2: Chelsea: another physical team. KO'd (with a lot of bad luck though) again.

So, even though Pep's team was awesome, but a general pattern was there:
1. if Pep/Barca played against weaker teams=we won all matches
2. when we faced either physical or crazy runners=we lost 2 out 3 (Inter 2010, Chelsea 2012) and we were on a verge of losing 3 out 3 (Chelsea 2009 with ref's help and lots of luck).

So, basically, EV and Barca crumbling on away matches against physical or high pressing/crazy runners teams is nothing new.
We are losing against those teams since Crujff, Van Gaal, Rijkaard, Pep, Lucho and EV.

Of course, the best solution would be: to learn how to win against them (Rijkaard had a nice recipe and Lucho also).
Basically, Rijkaard and Lucho coped better against physical teams than Pep.

But even if you don't know HOW to win against those teams, there is always an option: have a lucky draw and avoid those teams (like Barca in 2011).
So, if we avoid City and Liverpool, I can seriously see us winning a CL even with Busi-Raki duo.

On the other hand, if we will have to play against: Liverpool in 1/4, Bayern in 1/2 and City in a final, then there is no way to survive 3 high pressing opponents with any lineup combination.

So, let's hope for:
1. improvement against high pressing teams
2. or a CL draw luck
Or both, of course...

 

[Havesaks]

Real - City 40-60
Atleti - Pool 35-65
Valencia - Atalanta 70-30
Spurs - RBL 55-45
Chelsea - Bayern 25-75
PSG - BVB 80-20
Juventus - Lyon 90-10
Barca - Napoli 95-5

ATM - pool 15 - 85
Valencia - Atlanta 60 - 40
Spurs - rbl 50 - 50
Chelsea - Bayern 35 - 65
Psg - bvb 70 - 30
Juventus - lyon 90 - 10
Barca - Napoli 80 - 20

 

[devo901]

Their players individually don't have much quality or any World cup/CL top level experience.

You are right - they do not have players that have international experience. We DO HAVE them, galore!

But experience cuts both ways; if you say the world "ROMA!" loudly, they collapse and start gasping.

 

[MagIX]

Napoli-Liverpool 2-0
Liverpool-Napoli 1-1

it's not going to be a walk. I wouldn't underestimate Napoli.

 

[malvolio]

Napoli-Liverpool 2-0
Liverpool-Napoli 1-1

napoli is a circus right now. they even hired that idiot gattuso as manager. who in their right mind thought that a guy like gattuso would make a good manager is beyond baffling.

also this time around they don't have a single world class player a la higuain or cavani. that and the fact they lack KO experience in CL makes them an easy opponent for us.