Champions League

[BBZ8800]

Agree about the final, it was a great game from many povs.

But the final-8 format is trash.
It magnifies the effect of luck, and it strips qualifications from the better sides.
From an entertainment perspective, it also deprives us from seeing how a team that messes up one game can recover in the return leg.

Abandon...

One could argue that real winners and mental strength would win 1 legged tournaments.

Barca would be in problems.
Due to our choirboy weak mental strength, we are more suited to a league type of format without sudden-death type of matches.

Messi and our choirboys have lost more or less every single important KO match/final since 2011, except in 2015.

 

[Jadentheman]

Agreed. Even if CL was a two legged format this year Barca still would have lost 4-1 first leg then 4-0 return. It might have been 8-1 agg. And it would have been even worse to take a beaten TWICE.

 

[Alik]

Messi and our choirboys have lost more or less every single important KO match/final since 2011, except in 2015.

Sure. If your definition of important KO match happens to be precisely the one which we don't win

 

[BBZ8800]

Sure. If your definition of important KO match happens to be precisely the one which we don't win

Try to find KO matches against first tier European opponents which we won since then.
2013:
Tier 2: Milan, Psg
Tier 1: Bayern 0:7

2014:
Tier 2: Man City
Tier 1: Atletico, KO'd

2016:
Tier level Clowns: Arsenal
Tier 1: Atletico, KO'd

2017:
Tier 2: Psg
Tier 1: Juve, KO'd

2018:
Tier 3: Chelsea
Tier 2: Roma, KO'd

2019:
Tier 3: Lyon, Man.Utd
Tier 1: Liverpool, epic KO

2020:
Tier 8: Napoli
Tier 1: Bayern, world record humiliation

Since 2011, we lost every single big KO match except in 2015.
Again, should I dare to add that Messi lost 3 NT finals on top of that, scored zero KO goals for NT team in the last 10 years and scored 2-3 KO goals for Barca in the last 6-7 years, iirc (or is it away KO goals)?

Barca, our best players and captains are a textbook example how to crumble on pressure in every match once you step a foot outside their safe place (Camp Nou) and once you start losing 0:1.
** Have we ever won on away matches after losing 0:1 (KO matches)?

We are kings of league matches and CL group stages when the pressure is low.
When the stakes are high, we are among the biggest chokers in Europe.
And we are surely the most expensive chokers.

 

[KingLeo10]

Only BBZ can blow out of proportion the fact (i.e. we have underachieved in general and been terrible last 3-4 years) into a complete statistical comedy that makes it seem like we're Stoke City.

Messi's scored like 20 KO goals in the last 7 years for Barca....it's the away games where he needs to step up. Our second highest KO goal scorer in the same time frame is Neymar at 10. And he left 3 years ago.

 

[MagIX]

It's true, but in the end only 1 wins, therefore nearly all are chokers (expansive or not).
Not easy to win.
I think we won 4 CL in 15 years, not so bad.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Can’t believe this poll is so close. 14/15 Barca is way stronger than 19/20 Bayern imo.

https://twitter.com/fifacom/status/1297866302548213762?s=21

 

[KingLeo10]

Can?t believe this poll is so close. 14/15 Barca is way stronger than 19/20 Bayern imo.

https://twitter.com/fifacom/status/1297866302548213762?s=21

Barca beat PSG, City, PSG, Bayern, and Juve in CL (all over 2 legs except final); RM (CL holders) and AM (CL finalists) in LL/Copa.

They beat a carcass of Barca, Lyon, PSG, and a wank Chelsea in CL and a good but nothing special Dortmund in the league.

It's the weakest of all the trebles IMO. I rate Inter higher because they beat prime Barca and a strong Bayern. Bayern 12/13 above that because they beat a strong Dortmund and clowned Barca and Juve. And then it's a mix up between our 2 and United.

 

[Morten]

Barca beat PSG, City, PSG, Bayern, and Juve in CL (all over 2 legs except final); RM (CL holders) and AM (CL finalists) in LL/Copa.

They beat a carcass of Barca, Lyon, PSG, and a wank Chelsea in CL and a good but nothing special Dortmund in the league.

It's the weakest of all the trebles IMO. I rate Inter higher because they beat prime Barca and a strong Bayern. Bayern 12/13 above that because they beat a strong Dortmund and clowned Barca and Juve. And then it's a mix up between our 2 and United.

Forget about Bayern, the fact that they knocked out that insane Barca side(lucky as they may have been) is enough.

 

[Alik]

snip.

Now apply that logic to Bayern:

2014:
Tier level Clows: Arsenal
Tier 3: Man Utd
Tier 1: Real Madrid KO'd

2015:
Tier 5: Shaktar, Porto
Tier 1: Barca KO'd

2016:
Tier 2: Juve
Tier 4: Benfica
Tier 1: Atletico KO'd

2017:
Tier level Clowns: Arsenal
Tier 1: Real Madrid KO'd

2018:
Tier 8: Besiktas
Tier 4: Sevilla
Tier 1: Real Madrid KO'd

2019:
Tier 1: Liverpool KO'd

 

[Vilarrubi]

Now apply that logic to Bayern:

2014:
Tier level Clows: Arsenal
Tier 3: Man Utd
Tier 1: Real Madrid KO'd

2015:
Tier 5: Shaktar, Porto
Tier 1: Barca KO'd

2016:
Tier 2: Juve
Tier 4: Benfica
Tier 1: Atletico KO'd

2017:
Tier level Clowns: Arsenal
Tier 1: Real Madrid KO'd

2018:
Tier 8: Besiktas
Tier 4: Sevilla
Tier 1: Real Madrid KO'd

2019:
Tier 1: Liverpool KO'd

Be interesting to see all of the other recent winners other years in CL and compare. We've had the most humiliations, no doubt about that. But surely with us winning 3 CLs in 11 years or 4 in 15 years we're still the 2nd most successful team in that period of time behind Madrid.

 

[KingLeo10]

Be interesting to see all of the other recent winners other years in CL and compare. We've had the most humiliations, no doubt about that. But surely with us winning 3 CLs in 11 years or 4 in 15 years we're still the 2nd most successful team in that period of time behind Madrid.

I'll do one for Bayern since flavor of the month. Let's compare from 2005, because this is where we had our golden generation and they had theirs a few years after ours (after their 1970s one).

2005-06: Tier 1: KO'ed by AC Milan 2-5

2006-07: Tier 2: RM (they were getting bounced in R of 16 those days)
Tier 1: KO'ed by AC Milan 2-4

2007-08: DID NOT EVEN PARTICIPATE

2008-09: Tier 1: KO'ed by Barcelona 1-5

2009-10: Tier 1: Man United
Tier 1: KO'ed by Inter 0-2

2010-2011 Tier 1: KO'ed by Inter in R of 16

2011-2012 Tier 1: Real Madrid
Tier 2: KO'ed by Chelsea at home

2012-2013 Tier 2: Barca, Juve
Tier 1: Dortmund

2013-2014: Tier 1: KO'ed by RM 0-5

2014-2015: Tier 1: KO'ed by Barca 3-5

2015-2016: Tier 1: Juventus
Tier 1: KO'ed by AM 2-2

2016-2017: Tier 1: KO'ed by RM 3-6

2017-2018: Tier 1: KO'ed by RM 3-4

2018-2019: Tier 1: KO'ed by Pool 1-3

2019-2010: Tier 2: Barca, PSG

There's a lot of results in there that I could say were humiliations. Also even if you win 50% of games v Tier 1 clubs in CL every season, you win like half the CLs. It simply doesn't happen. RM's golden generation won 4 CL but before that it was R of 16 and CL semis elimination at first serious opponent and now it's back to the same. CL is a hard competition to win.

 

[KingLeo10]

I'm not using this as an excuse for our recent humiliations. It only shows we should have moved past the legends around 2016 because 1-2 years is an eternity in CL and you can't dominate for a whole decade in this competition. Not even Messi or CR7 could (CR7's peak was more recent, Messi's way back).

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Can’t believe this poll is so close. 14/15 Barca is way stronger than 19/20 Bayern imo.

https://twitter.com/fifacom/status/1297866302548213762?s=21

Waaay stronger. 19/20 Bayern had problems against Lyon and PSG while we destroyed every oppenent with 70%. MSN + Iniesta + Alves in topform are unbeatable.

 

[Morten]

Waaay stronger. 19/20 Bayern had problems against Lyon and PSG while we destroyed every oppenent with 70%. MSN + Iniesta + Alves in topform are unbeatable.

"Destroyed every opponent" is pushing it, if i recall, Juventus missed a couple of chances(or was it a penalty situation they didnt recieve?) in the final that could have made it a different game, no?