Claudio Bravo

[CatalinR10]

How about not selling either of the goalkeepers?

+1

We need a good 2'nd keeper for rotations and Mats is great for that while Bravo is MUCH better and deserves to be 1'st choice

 

[BarçaBarça]

There is way higher possibility that we will be able to buy a good Gk (or 2-3-4 of them) once when Bravo retires than relying only on one player as if he is the only option in the world (Mats).

But also, relying too much on future which may or may not come, will ruin Messi's final years and will eventually turn us into Arsene Wenger's Arsenal.
A team which is always waiting for "the next Season". The next season will be better. They have new, younger, better players coming...
And then in the next season, they will have even "better" potentials for the next season.
And then again and again and again.
They are always waiting for the future which will never come because of their flawed philosophy.

We are not that kind of a club.

I understand the concern for not making the right decision now - and playing the wrong keeper who might be better in the future. It is fair to question if we want to gamble with Messi's final years and bring uncertainty into the goalkeeper-position. And to be clear: Nobody wants to change anything before next season.

But I think that Ter Stegen has proven himself - he is a worldclass goalkeeper. He has proved it in the hardest cup-competition in the world without regular playing time in the team - what more proof could he give?

I would also start Bravo in La Liga this season, but next - I'm not so sure. People in here talks as if WC-goalkeepers are easy to find - they are not! Yes, you could name a few, and there would be options when Bravo eventually drops in form whenever that happens - but none as well-suited to Barca's playing-style as Ter Stegen. When judging Bravo, it is not easy to see what he doesn't manage to do as well as Stegen, because he has a decent passing-game. But with Ter Stegen we have a whole other dimension of play - the opposition can press high - but we have a 5th defender and can pass our way out of it! Not to mention the counter-attacks which will get better with a goalkeeper who delivers more precise long balls upfield, as we have seen a few examples of.

It is not that I don't acknowledge how good Bravo is - he is in great form right now and makes amazing saves in important situations. But maybe a switch of roles next year could be the solution - I don't think we can afford to waste Ter Stegens potential by not giving him regular playing time. IMO the difference between the two is not trophy-deciding, and that is why I would be sure not to lose Ter Stegen or waste his potential by given him to little playing time - it might be here some of us disagree.

Really, all I'm saying is: It is dangerous to think that we easily could find another goalkeeper as well-suited to Barca as Ter Stegen 3-4 years from now.

 

[Flavia]

Goalkeepers for Barça were always a problem. I see no logic in letting MAtS go for some supposedly gk that might or not appear in the future, and who might or not fit the team. MAtS fits the team, won CL and Cdr in his 1st season. And honestly, right now him and Bravo look on par. I don't see one being better than the other. Long term planning should prevail here, than an unknown future.

 

[raskolnikov]

Maybe then the most logical decision is to switch them around next season. If Bravo doesnt agree we should get a back up like Willy and just let Mats be our goalie in the cl and la liga.
It really sucks since Bravo has been doing so well. But letting Mats go isnt an option either.

 

[KingMessi]

Why do people act as though relying on TS in the long run will hurt us? He's already proved he can perform in both of the cup competitions this year and last year.

 

[townsend]

If we have to sell someone, I prefer the option of selling ter stegen ( with a 25-30 mil buyback option if possible). Bravo is only 32-33 and he has at least 3 or 4 more years on a top level..

Ter stegen is great with his feet, but bravo on the other side isn't too bad also.. 4 years is a long period and there will probably be other quality keepers on the market if ter stegen wouldn't be available (if sold). But I don't see the reason why he wouldn't be sold with a buyback clause.

 

[Flavia]

If we have to sell someone, I prefer the option of selling ter stegen ( with a 25-30 mil buyback option if possible). Bravo is only 32-33 and he has at least 3 or 4 more years on a top level..

Ter stegen is great with his feet, but bravo on the other side isn't too bad also.. 4 years is a long period and there will probably be other quality keepers on the market if ter stegen wouldn't be available (if sold). But I don't see the reason why he wouldn't be sold with a buyback clause.

And MAtS has 10+ years on a top level. Working with probabilities makes no sense. There's already a gk for a long time here. Why gamble.

 

[Jägermeister]

But also, relying too much on future which may or may not come, will ruin Messi's final years and will eventually turn us into Arsene Wenger's Arsenal.

ter Stegen is a proven keeper, we won two titles last year with him in goal, so I don't see how using him in goal ruins Messi's best years. On top of that to be successful in the long term we constantly have to think about now as well as the future, otherwise we will get problems in the future because we'd have to buy proven players all the time since we didn't bother developing talents. This does not mean that we should only focus on the future and young players, but we need to keep an eye on both things.

 

[BBZ8800]

ter Stegen is a proven keeper, we won two titles last year with him in goal, so I don't see how using him in goal ruins Messi's best years. On top of that to be successful in the long term we constantly have to think about now as well as the future, otherwise we will get problems in the future because we'd have to buy proven players all the time since we didn't bother developing talents. This does not mean that we should only focus on the future and young players, but we need to keep an eye on both things.

Ok, but after reading a few last posts on this page, it seems as if:
1. Bravo is a 99 out of 100 in class/skills
-- but he is old
2. Mats is already equal to Bravo, aka 99 out of 100 in skills/class
-- he is young

If things would stand this way, then it is a no-brainer if you have 2 equal Gks=to give more and more chances to a younger one, because of a biology.

But the thing is, even though Mats is awesome, he is NOT yet on Bravo's level.
Maybe he'll come there, maybe he won't.
I won't enter into that.

So, in THIS MOMENT switching from Bravo to Mats is a downgrade in skills surely.

Mats won a CL with us, kudos for that.
But it seems that people slightly forgot what happened a few months ago with Mats, and some are basing their current opinion about him based on more recent performances.

Anyway, we have to take into the account things which happened in September and October.
If some fans forgot, here is the chance to "remember" the feelings and thoughts of our fans from that era:
http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/8791-1-Marc-Andr%C3%A9-ter-Stegen/page297

At least in my eyes, as Barca's fan:
1. Bravo is still a guy who plays at a world class level in 19 out 20 matches
2. Mats is a guy who can win you a CL, but also a guy who can concede 2, 3 or 4 goals on "his day", more or less, out of nowhere

Mats could be awesome, but in this moment, in my eyes:
1. Bravo is reliable in 19 out 20 matches
2. Mats is reliable in 7-8 out 10 matches
He will make huge blunders in other matches.
Sometimes it will cause only minor problems in 5:1 wins for Barca, but sometimes it will cause 3:3 draws and 3:4 defeats.

People will now reply:
= but Mats COULD in a few years reach Bravo's level, if given a chance.
True.

But people, don't act as if Mats and Bravo are 100% equal in this moment.
They aren't.
Bravo is a superior keeper currently.

Mats has potential and time on his side.
Whether he will get there (where we want him to get), we don't know.

So, at the end of the day, switching from Bravo to Mats is a gamble, getting a slightly weaker Gk currently, and HOPING that Mats will reach the 100% level one day. A hope that we will "get" some awesome in long terms.
And since La Masia is dry lately, our fans are more and more desperate to "create" new heroes and idols from young gems.

He may reach it, or he may not.
But in my eyes, testing one player and investing "everything" only in one guy is NEVER worth more than the whole team.
And what is the best for the team (in my eyes) is always the one who is (significantly) better right now.

 

[KingMessi]

Ter Stegen is better than Bravo in some areas. Worse in some areas. Vice versa for Bravo. It's not a complete drop in skills level.

 

[serghei]

Bravo is the better keeper for a league competition right now, and that should be clear for everybody, fan or no fan. But people on this forum want Ter Stegen to do the league because he is younger, and he is "the future". Not because they really think he would do a better job than Bravo (that's actually a very very difficult task).

Sure, youth is important and the future counts, but at the end of the day, for me there can be no exception to the rule that whoever is better should play most matches. Right now, Bravo is the best keeper in the league, and, logically, he should play in La Liga.

 

[BarçaBarça]

But the thing is, even though Mats is awesome, he is NOT yet on Bravo's level.
Maybe he'll come there, maybe he won't.
I won't enter into that.

So, in THIS MOMENT switching from Bravo to Mats is a downgrade in skills surely.

I disagree: Ter Stegen has proven he has reached Bravo's level already - in CL last year and this year. Surely Bravo has more confidence and you could point to La Liga performance last year and this year - Copa América on top of that, and you are right: He is very stable, solid and good. But in his top-performances Ter Stegen is just as good IMO.

But it seems that people slightly forgot what happened a few months ago with Mats, and some are basing their current opinion about him based on more recent performances.

Anyway, we have to take into the account things which happened in September and October.

It is fair to criticize him when he makes mistakes. But you can not compare the conditions in which Ter Stegen performed in September with what Bravo is doing in the league right now. Back then our defence in was very shaky in general: No Pique for some matches due to suspension, Alba was injured 2 games and our backline changed from game to game - all in all: NO stability. (The SuperCopa 4-0 thrashing was with Adriano-Vermaelen-Bartra-Alves). Some people did also look at the bigger picture and general circumstances back then, other than "he made such and such mistake":

Bravo's injury couldn't have come at a worse time for MAtS. Not only is he already under huge pressure following his prev. outing, he hasn't played in one month and is now set to make his Liga debut in the Calderón against Simeone's upgraded firepower (third best in Liga), after an Intl break.

I don't think that period of time tells a lot about Ter Stegens general level - or how many blunders/mistakes he is good for pr. 10 games. My point is - we won't see the mistakes he has made before if he enters into a team with a stable backline and get regular playing time, as Bravo is benefiting from right now.

People will now reply:
= but Mats COULD in a few years reach Bravo's level, if given a chance.
True.

So, at the end of the day, switching from Bravo to Mats is a gamble, getting a slightly weaker Gk currently, and HOPING that Mats will reach the 100% level one day. A hope that we will "get" some awesome in long terms.
And since La Masia is dry lately, our fans are more and more desperate to "create" new heroes and idols from young gems.

I see what you mean, but I'm not personally biased for Ter Stegen or see him as the next great hero. I don't need a new idol, and I would scarifies any player for the good of the team as a whole. But tactically he is interesting and could give more to Barca's passing game, and I don't think we are talking about years, but months before he would be as stable as Bravo.

The thing is: If I knew that Ter Stegen would be happy with only CL+Copa next year and not lose any steps in his development, I would happily play Bravo in the league or all competitions. But I think his development really could stall, and actually I think it is amazing that he can pull out so good performances in CL this year, without regularly playing in the team - the logical thing would be if he was rusty and not in sync. THAT is why I think we must switch roles next year, and we just disagree about how much of a gamble that would be.

 

[Darko]

Why do people act as though relying on TS in the long run will hurt us? He's already proved he can perform in both of the cup competitions this year and last year.

Not to mention he outperformed the likes of Neuer in the league with the best keepers in the world at the age of 20.
But yeaaaah, let the best young keeper in the world go to Liverpool, we'll easily find a replacement if a few years...

 

[DonAK]

I bet Messi never had been at Barca had BBZ been there instead of Rijkaard. Too young and inexperienced. Can't have risked wasting Ronaldinho's best years you know.

 

[Cule4life]

I bet Messi never had been at Barca had BBZ been there instead of Rijkaard. Too young and inexperienced. Can't have risked wasting Ronaldinho's best years you know.