Maradona37
Well-known member
Quite fitting that The Boys season 4 is airing during this tournament. It has been said many times but he's definitely like Homelander.
Cr150
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Don Juan Laporta Estruch
Well-known member
Damning statistics. I honestly can not for the life of me understand how people have him in their Top 10 of all time.
The Top 10 players of all time should be touched with such genius from God, that their relationship with the ball should be natural. He just doesn't have that. Messi, Maradona, Zico, Platini, can play 30 yard passes first time with their eyes closed, whilst sipping on a mate. Cristiano needs full concentration just to make a 5 yard lay off.
Yes, he has 800 goals, but as you can see, goalscoring stats can be misleading, especially with the huge number of penalties and how easily they are awarded these days. You only need to look at yesterday's game where Ronaldo was basically trying everything to get a penaldo so he could get on the score sheet.
Haaland will have at least 700 goals to his name when he finishes his career. Is he also going to be in people's Top 10? You need more than goals, and whilst Ron has more to his game then Haaland, he still falls behind when compared to the Top 10 of the all time greats. He'd be nearer 15-20 on my list.
100%
Maradona37
Well-known member
I agree with all that. I really only have him about 8th or 9th due to peer pressure from others. Based on pure talent I wouldn't have him in the top 100 players of all time - but his (out of context) stats, trophies and longevity given him a boost I suppose.Damning statistics. I honestly can not for the life of me understand how people have him in their Top 10 of all time.
The Top 10 players of all time should be touched with such genius from God, that their relationship with the ball should be natural. He just doesn't have that. Messi, Maradona, Zico, Platini, can play 30 yard passes first time with their eyes closed, whilst sipping on a mate. Cristiano needs full concentration just to make a 5 yard lay off.
Yes, he has 800 goals, but as you can see, goalscoring stats can be misleading, especially with the huge number of penalties and how easily they are awarded these days. You only need to look at yesterday's game where Ronaldo was basically trying everything to get a penaldo so he could get on the score sheet.
Haaland will have at least 700 goals to his name when he finishes his career. Is he also going to be in people's Top 10? You need more than goals, and whilst Ron has more to his game then Haaland, he still falls behind when compared to the Top 10 of the all time greats. He'd be nearer 15-20 on my list.
Like someone else said - he has spent a large part of his career playing in a very basic fashion, playing on the shoulder of the defender to get into the box for a chance on goal. Nothing wrong with that, but when we are talking about the very best players of all time in football's 150 year history, you need more genius than he possesses.
He's not really rated for his ability or talent (he is more talented than the majority if footballers, but relative to many of the genius ones ever he is average in talent) but his stats, 'hard work' and his longevity and team accolades. Like you say if it was about stats Haaland would be considered miles better than Xavi and Iniesta.
The obsession with out of context quantitative data and lack of respect for qualitative is my pet peeve in football. Who cares if Ronaldo has scored 130 goals in international football when so many are meaningless? He's scored twice as many as Gerd Muller, but Muller played far fewer games and scored far bigger goals. It's really pathetic when the guy celebrates the fifth in the hammering of a minnow like Liechtenstein or Estonia. Three goals in 19 knockout games is far more telling about how reliant he's been on his Man United and Real Madrid team-mates.
In short, a great player. But compared to the absolute cream of football's glorious history, he falls short. He and (some of) his fans are so obnoxious that they DEMAND he be placed right at the top, they feel so entitled to it. The irony is he doesn't deserve a top 5 placing at all.
I genuinely believe that recency bias and celebrity worship gives him a massive boost in the rankings.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Another thing I believe is that he rides on Messi's coattails as a player - people compare them all the time because of the media created rivalry. They think if he can keep up with Messi in stats (as he does) that means they're on the same level. In truth Messi is much much better when it comes to dribbling, passing, playmaking, free-kicks in recent years, ability in tight spaces, football IQ even. He's a better finisher too in terms of shot conversion rate.
It's almost like people see them as a package deal. He's lucky Messi exists because it gives the illusion he's at the top if Messi is too. You see this when people say they 'push each other' which is a disservice to Messi as he'd still be the player he is now even if Cristiano Ronaldo had never existed.
The truth is there's a huge gap between them in talent and sheer genius, and always was.
It's almost like people see them as a package deal. He's lucky Messi exists because it gives the illusion he's at the top if Messi is too. You see this when people say they 'push each other' which is a disservice to Messi as he'd still be the player he is now even if Cristiano Ronaldo had never existed.
The truth is there's a huge gap between them in talent and sheer genius, and always was.
Horatio
You're welcome
Maradona37
Well-known member
Did he say the same stuff? He must have good opinions.
I know he's Scottish, like me. A lot of guys here much prefer Messi to Ronaldo. Other than two or three oddballs everyone I know thinks Ronaldo isn't close to Messi.
Reasonable people do rank Messi above CR if looking purely at football. Those who prefer CR do it for other reasons than being the best player, mostly to do with his image and influence.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Yeah it's so true and obvious for anyone who isn't wilfuly ignorant of how idol worship and society operates.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
He’s a fraud without all time great RM teammates, many of whom won 2 CLs without him
Maradona37
Well-known member
I said when he was scoring all those goals in the CL - a lot of the time they were chances set up by his team-mates. He was really reliant on service. In the earlier days he was less reliant. Ironically his biggest success at RM came when he became a worse player in the second half of his time there. That just reinforces how important a team is, rather than him as a player.He’s a fraud without all time great RM teammates, many of whom won 2 CLs without him
Also, 2 league titles in 9 seasons is poor and something nobody ever mentions. In fact, that's something else about the lack of context behind his achievements. People say he 'won the league in Spain, Italy and England' - but dig deeper and 2 Ligas in 9 seasons is poor and winning Serie A with Juventus meant little given their long streak. In fact, of far more relevance is they finally ended up relinquishing the title after like 7 or 8 seasons while he was there. Even when you look at the 2014 CL - he scored 17 goals but so many of his goals came when ties were already over. And people wank over his hat-trick against Sweden, yet nobody ever asks why Portugal were playing a play-off in the first place? I believe the mighty Bosnia beat them to first place in the section. The gross thing is if he had done his job first time around he'd likelt not have won the Ballon d'or that year. Or like them saying he's the first guy to score in 5 consecutive World Cups - is scoring 2, 1, 1, 4, 1 or whatever it is really that impressive? I mean it means he's doing a little in every tournament. Much better to have one brilliant tournament like Hagi or James or Stoitchkov.
That's just what I mean about the spin around this guy and his achievements.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
He’s a fraud without all time great RM teammates, many of whom won 2 CLs without him
Messi has 0 cls and 0 int. titles without all time greats/top2 team
At least Ronaldo won with an average Portugal team an int. title 🤨
This is a discussion you cant win so i dont know why you repeat it every second day 🫠
Maradona37
Well-known member
The thing is - Portugal aren't average. In 2016 they weren't great and are one of the worst Euro winners ever, because they won one game of 7 in normal time.
And Ronaldo was mediocre in Euro 2016. Messi was far better than Ronaldo was in Euro 2016 in the Copa America and World Cup he won. I'd also argue Messi was better in the Copa and World Cup where he lost in the final - performances matter just as much as trophies. It's all well and good that Ronaldo won the Euro, but he was poor in the first two games, saved them against Hungary admittedly, didn't do much vs Croatia and Poland, scored a header and got a mishit shot assist vs Wales and then limped out of the final where his team mates won it without him.
An example of the spin around him is the media laughably claiming he coached them to victory - I can guarantee if Messi or Maradona came off in a final and their teams won it without them, it would be used to discredit them. But not Ronaldo, because he has so much PR behind him.
You are a great guy though and I am not gonna argue with you
CatalinR10
Senior Member
We already discussed in what context he won an int title with an ,,average" team.
And if you think this Arg team has all time greats filled in it , then you are dumber than I tought.
He won a WC with a team rated 6th quality wise before the start of the tourney. France and England had a squad worth over a bil , Arg team was somewhere around 400 mil if I'm not mistaken.
But go on and keep coping that he has Maradona and Pele like players in his team and has it easy lmao .
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
The thing is - Portugal aren't average. In 2016 they weren't great and are one of the worst Euro winners ever, because they won one game of 7 in normal time.
And Ronaldo was mediocre in Euro 2016. Messi was far better than Ronaldo was in Euro 2016 in the Copa America and World Cup he won. I'd also argue Messi was better in the Copa and World Cup where he lost in the final - performances matter just as much as trophies. It's all well and good that Ronaldo won the Euro, but he was poor in the first two games, saved them against Hungary admittedly, didn't do much vs Croatia and Poland, scored a header and got a mishit shot assist vs Wales and then limped out of the final where his team mates won it without him.
An example of the spin around him is the media laughably claiming he coached them to victory - I can guarantee if Messi or Maradona came off in a final and their teams won it without them, it would be used to discredit them. But not Ronaldo, because he has so much PR behind him.
You are a great guy though and I am not gonna argue with you
Believe me dude im one of the most neutral guys here and i dont disagree everything you say but this KL dude is acting like Messi won the cl with UD Almeria and the int. titles with Lettland
he needs a reality check every week
Both players had their best time in winning titles when their team was superior 🐐
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