Cr150

[CatalinR10]

But Messi misses a crucial and tie-changing PK

That wasn't neither a crucial nor a tie changing goal.


We would still have needed to score 3 and receive 0 to go through.


You act as if Messi missed the winning penalty which would put us through in the 95'th minute.



In the end his penalty miss was irelevant.



Stop being such a Messi hater , wtf is even wrong with you dude ? You are 100% not a Barca fan.

 

[CatalinR10]

Fati with the wisdom. Great stuff.

Sorry dawg but us true Barcelona fans don't want to lick CR's ass after what Messi has done for us.

 

[BarcaOG]

KingLeo, I can't see the content of your posts. You're on my ignore list; all it says is King Leo posted something. I'm not interested in what you have to say; you're not interested in what I have to say either--that's fine. I'm just letting you know that you are kind of wasting your time by responding to me. (If that is what you are doing--I can't see what it is). If its not related to me then carry on. Just letting you know.

Sorry dawg but us true Barcelona fans don't want to lick CR's ass after what Messi has done for us.

It's not about licking anything, lol. It's about whether you can be mature enough to recognize what many Barca fans and what most if not all non-Barca fans recognize.

 

[CatalinR10]

It's not about licking anything, lol. It's about whether you can be mature enough to recognize what many Barca fans and what most if not all non-Barca fans recognize.

what's that ?

 

[KingLeo10]

My message applied to everyone who's shocked that CR7 gets dunked on now and then on a Barca forum. It's harmless banter.

 

[BarcaOG]

That wasn't neither a crucial nor a tie changing goal.


We would still have needed to score 3 and receive 0 to go through.


You act as if Messi missed the winning penalty which would put us through in the 95'th minute.



In the end his penalty miss was irelevant.



Stop being such a Messi hater , wtf is even wrong with you dude ? You are 100% not a Barca fan.

You really don't think that. We have no idea what would have happened had Messi scored the PK. And if he had, you'd (rightly) be praising him for it. We were playing really well as a team and dominating PSG. 0-2 at half time would have put us in a great position to really go for the result. What the missed PK did was put a definitive end to the possibility of a comeback.

I'm not a Messi hater, lol, Messi is the player who has given me the most joy as a football fan. What I am is not blind to the current moment: Messi hasn't been at his best since at least 2019. I'm also against double-standards: you can't a) think he's the 'best of 2021' or the best in the world but b) look the other way when he doesn't deliver or as we continue to lose titles. Can't have it both ways.

Anyway, I'm not going to change your mind about this. So let's just agree to disagree.

what's that ?

Oh: simple. That both CR and Messi are all-time greats, and that there most certainly is a debate about who is better between them.

In 2015 when Messi secured his second treble the argument really seemed over. But since then CR has managed to crawl his way back into the debate by winning two NT titles and three CL's in a row. It is to his credit that he did that. You can (and you do) think Messi is on top; but I think it's a little myopic to say that the conversation itself, the debate, is not real.

 

[CatalinR10]

You really don't think that. We have no idea what would have happened had Messi scored the PK. And if he had, you'd (rightly) be praising him for it. We were playing really well as a team and dominating PSG. 0-2 at half time would have put us in a great position to really go for the result. What the missed PK did was put a definitive end to the possibility of a comeback.

I'm not a Messi hater, lol, Messi is the player who has given me the most joy as a football fan. What I am is not blind to the current moment: Messi hasn't been at his best since at least 2019. I'm also against double-standards: you can't a) think he's the 'best of 2021' or the best in the world but b) look the other way when he doesn't deliver or as we continue to lose titles. Can't have it both ways.

Anyway, I'm not going to change your mind about this. So let's just agree to disagree.

We would have went with 2-1at the break if Messi scored the penaldo not 2-0.


Yeah , the penalty miss put a definitive end to a comeback , not the pathetic first leg or Dembele missing 4 big chances in the first half , but a missed penalty by Messi who was the only one to score in this tie.



Messi hasn't been at his best since 2019 . What's his best exactly , him scoring 60-91 goals per season ? Well no fucking way he isn't at that level.



He is in good form so far this year and looks on par with Lewandowski. Lewandowski has so far 3 more goals but with 2 games more than Messi and he's a striker so yeah , so far this year he's on par with Lewandowski but Messi doesn't play in a team as good as Bayern.


If you think a player , just because he's the best in the world , wins by default titles regardless of the team he's playing in , you have no ideea what you're talking about.

Oh: simple. That both CR and Messi are all-time greats, and that there most certainly is a debate about who is better between them.

In 2015 when Messi secured his second treble the argument really seemed over. But since then CR has managed to crawl his way back into the debate by winning two NT titles and three CL's in a row. It is to his credit that he did that. You can (and you do) think Messi is on top; but I think it's a little myopic to say that the conversation itself, the debate, is not real.

They didn't win neither the CL's or NT titles thanks to him.


If there was VAR , he would have had 2 less CL titles.


I won't even mention that he wasn't even playing the Euro final or that he was shit in that other NT friendly tourney final.


So yeah , him winning those CL's and NT titles wasn't due to him.

 

[BarcaOG]

We would have went with 2-1at the break if Messi scored the penaldo not 2-0.


Yeah , the penalty miss put a definitive end to a comeback , not the pathetic first leg or Dembele missing 4 big chances in the first half , but a missed penalty by Messi who was the only one to score in this tie.



Messi hasn't been at his best since 2019 . What's his best exactly , him scoring 60-91 goals per season ? Well no fucking way he isn't at that level.



He is in good form so far this year and looks on par with Lewandowski. Lewandowski has so far 3 more goals but with 2 games more than Messi and he's a striker so yeah , so far this year he's on par with Lewandowski but Messi doesn't play in a team as good as Bayern.


If you think a player , just because he's the best in the world , wins by default titles regardless of the team he's playing in , you have no ideea what you're talking about.

No, I don't think that. You are perfectly correct to say that part of the aggregate result is the result of Dembele's awful finishing and Griezmann's non-impact. That's very fair.

But a penalty reduces all those variables to two: the player and the GK. You can't deny that Messi failed the team by missing that. Ask yourself this (and be honest): if CR had also missed a PK against Porto when the game was 1-2 or 1-1, would you have been as charitable as you were to Messi missing his? I really doubt that. You would have hounded CR and laughed and all the rest of it, called him a bottler, etc. And that would have been fair! In this scenario he, too, would have failed his team.

My point is that, at the very least, we should expect Messi to score that PK. It's not like expecting him to score a FK, or to dribble past three players and score, or set up 2-3 guilt-edged chances for our other players. Relative to that, a PK is more straightforward.

About whether the PK would have changed things--well, I do think so. But it's all hypothetical so let's not bother since we can't be 100% sure either way.

 

[CatalinR10]

[MENTION=1742]BarcaOG[/MENTION] ,


Also , if YOU are saying that there's a debate regarding which is better , or that they're close or whatever , why are YOU ( a BARCELONA fan ) complaining about Messi all the time and praising CR ?


Shouldn't you have the same standards for both of them? Why complain about Messi who scored the only goals in the PSG tie and not say anything about CR who let his team down for the 3rd year in a row vs lower tier teams ?

 

[BarcaOG]

They didn't win neither the CL's or NT titles thanks to him.


If there was VAR , he would have had 2 less CL titles.


I won't even mention that he wasn't even playing the Euro final or that he was shit in that other NT friendly tourney final.


So yeah , him winning those CL's and NT titles wasn't due to him.

You realize that the CR fanboy/RM silly-fan argument that Messi only won titles when he had support (Xavi, Iniesta; peak Neymar, Suarez) is the exact reverse of what you are saying here? Neither has any merit. Sorry.

 

[Rassvet]

[MENTION=1742]BarcaOG[/MENTION] what is your objective analysis of this by the way?

 

[KingLeo10]

When it's about CR7: Context matters. Look at his teammates. Tactics. Age.

When it's about Messi: Why is he not winning us titles every season, regardless of anything.

No importance is given to the pen he actually scored in that 1st leg and that screamer in our 2nd (our only goals). How about some context and appreciation for easily the greatest player in Barcelona's storied history. No one said we can't respect other great players. But you respect your own first.

You ain't going to go up to some random rich couple on the street (who are successful one way or another) and show them more respect/appreciation than the parents who sweated for you, are you now? Extreme example, but similar logic applies here.

 

[CatalinR10]

No, I don't think that. if CR had also missed a PK against Porto when the game was 1-2 or 1-1, would you have been as charitable as you were to Messi missing his? I really doubt that. You would have hounded CR and laughed and all the rest of it, called him a bottler, etc. And that would have been fair! In this scenario he, too, would have failed his team.

Cr potential penalty goal would have made them go through/go in extra time.


Messi's potential goal would have made Barcelona need 3 more goals without conceiving one.


Do you fail to understand simple logic or what is wrong with you ?



If Porto would have won the first game 4-1 , away and then CR missing a penalty at 2-1 for them , I legit wouldn't even give a fuck. Actually I would have respected him for trying to do something and scoring 2 goals vs Porto than dissapearing and relying on that Chiesa guy to score 6 goals or whatever to get them through.

 

[BarcaOG]

[MENTION=1742]BarcaOG[/MENTION] ,


Also , if YOU are saying that there's a debate regarding which is better , or that they're close or whatever , why are YOU ( a BARCELONA fan ) complaining about Messi all the time and praising CR ?


Shouldn't you have the same standards for both of them? Why complain about Messi who scored the only goals in the PSG tie and not say anything about CR who let his team down for the 3rd year in a row vs lower tier teams ?

I complain about Messi precisely because I'm a Barca fan. Whether CR scores goals or not doesn't affect me at all. Good for him if he does.

On the other hand, when Messi fails to deliver, or fails to impose himself in an important match, as he has failed to do too many times in the last 4 years--that does affect us as a Club, and me as a Barca fan. So I have every right to criticize, because there is something at stake.

And no, I don't really have double-standards (or at least I don't think I do). You are perfectly correct to say that CR has failed Juve, with the exception of the hattrick against Atlei and his two goals, home and away, to Ajax. Either way he did not deliver the thing he was bought to deliver: a CL final appearance, at least, and ideally a CL title. He only has 14 goals in three CL seasons with Juve--that's very poor given that in his last season with Real he scored 15. So yes: he, too, has failed his team in the CL. No doubt about it.

The difference is that I don't think that at the moment CR is the best in the world (far from). So I don't expect him to perform as such.

[MENTION=1742]BarcaOG[/MENTION] what is your objective analysis of this by the way?

View attachment 8819

Really crappy wall.

Cr potential penalty goal would have made them go through/go in extra time.


Messi's potential goal would have made Barcelona need 3 more goals without conceiving one.


Do you fail to understand simple logic or what is wrong with you ?



If Porto would have won the first game 4-1 , away and then CR missing a penalty at 2-1 for them , I legit wouldn't even give a fuck. Actually I would have respected him for trying to do something and scoring 2 goals vs Porto than dissapearing and relying on that Chiesa guy to score 6 goals or whatever to get them through.

Well, if Messi is so great then why did he let his team fall 1-4 at home to begin with? Ahhhhh.

Anyway, look, you missed my point: we can't be 100% sure either way about whether the PK would have changed things. I have reasons to think it would have. But obviously I can't prove that. So let's move past this particular point. It's all hypothetical.

 

[CatalinR10]

The difference is that I don't think that at the moment CR is the best in the world (far from). So I don't expect him to perform as such.

You also don't believe that Messi is the best in the world , so why complain about him so much ? He is our only realistical weapon to win the La Liga title and you go on and on about him not scoring hattricks in CL every game so that we can win the CL title.

You don't even sound like a Barca fan at all , seriously.

Well, if Messi is so great then why did he let his team fall 1-4 at home to begin with? Ahhhhh.

Yeah , he should have played as a CB and defend against Mbapee and also substitute Mats so he can save the penalty.