Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

[JamDav1982]

You see I knew you would argue my point, and again you are completely missing it. Ronaldo is a different player in last 4-5 years. He has become amazing goalscorer, and he seems to have perfected his heading ability and positioning quality. His long shoots pretty much suck these days (he is probably not even in top 50 % wise) and his dribbling is about as average as it gets.

Now to become that, from a player who once was supreme dribbler and fantastic winger with great playmaking potential, something has to give. And thats what he traded in...He is COMPLETELY useless playing on the wing (he never plays it since that is evident) and his dribbling is such that giving him a ball at 30-40 feet can only result of losing it or passing it to the nearest team mate and running into the box for a header or close proximity goal. Thats his game now a days. He knows ONLY way he is going to get compared to Messi is to have stats as good as he can get. Penalty, 1 yard hand ricochet from Pepes header anything and he is going to celebrate because every goal brings him closer to Messi. Thats what its all about and thats what he admitted in the end, thats his goal. To pass Messi.

Ronaldo is constant as a goalscorer. But so was Inzaghi. Being constant doesnt make him a player that is "not so much relying on service", it only means his talent and ability to put service behind the net is great. And no body is denying that, but it seems some people really get anxious when service is being mentioned.

Pretty much every goal he scored this season is result of a) good service ----> b) his great ability to capitalize on those chances. There are very little players that can do that week in week out, let alone year in year out like Ronaldo, but to make him something that is not is laughable.

Again you just repeat the same thing when no one is arguing other wise.

How many times do you want to say.... Ronaldo is a goalscorer, cant dribble.

Must be at least the 4/5th time in a row said same thing.

Of course Ronaldo relies on service, but to suggest 90% of goals are layed on a plate for him is all wrong. When no other player in the world bar Messi would reproduce Ronaldos stats in Madrid.

Ronaldo is by far the biggest reason for the goals he gets.

 

[raskolnikov]

Having said that, it doesnt take to much of a drop in form for Messi before Ronaldo is rated higher(in many peoples eyes), from time to time.

Yeah because Messi is held to an higher standard than Ronaldo. Look at his last year he had 3 goals less than cr7 yet had a shit year according to every neutral fan while Ronaldo was amazing.

 

[raskolnikov]

Again you just repeat the same thing when no one is arguing other wise.

How many times do you want to say.... Ronaldo is a goalscorer, cant dribble.

Must be at least the 4/5th time in a row said same thing.

Of course Ronaldo relies on service, but to suggest 90% of goals are layed on a plate for him is all wrong. When no other player in the world bar Messi would reproduce Ronaldos stats in Madrid.

Ronaldo is by far the biggest reason for the goals he gets.

Jamdav is right, its not coincidence he Always happens to be in the right place, its cause his off the ball movement is best in the world, it what Inzaghi or Ruud had as well. It looks easy and based on team support but in reality its what makes him a better goalscorer than most, still needs a quality pass of course to make use of it.
To me nowadays he is like a better version of Shevchenko, quality poacher and 16 area beast.
If you just look at him as a goalscorer rather than player compared to Messi he is up there with the best.

 

[Morten]

Yeah because Messi is held to an higher standard than Ronaldo. Look at his last year he had 3 goals less than cr7 yet had a shit year according to every neutral fan while Ronaldo was amazing.

Messi had a bunch more games, everyone forgets that.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Again you just repeat the same thing when no one is arguing other wise.

How many times do you want to say.... Ronaldo is a goalscorer, cant dribble.

Must be at least the 4/5th time in a row said same thing.

Of course Ronaldo relies on service, but to suggest 90% of goals are layed on a plate for him is all wrong. When no other player in the world bar Messi would reproduce Ronaldos stats in Madrid.

Ronaldo is by far the biggest reason for the goals he gets.

Are you daft man?

Your argument is illogical. It goes :

1. Ronaldo scores plenty of goals

2. Ronaldo scores them consistently

3. Because he scores plenty of goals and does it consistently we can conclude therefore he doesn't rely on service

My argument is pretty simple.

1. Ronaldo scores shit tone of goals

2. Ronaldo also gets shit tone of service from best playmakers in the world (ADM, Ozil, Modric, James, Isco etc.)

3. Because Ronaldo scores shit tone of goals from the service he gets we can conclude he is SUPREME goalscorer

Replace Ronaldo with Gerd Muller in my argument and you and everyone else is fine, replace him with Ronaldo in yours and you may as well get Maradona.

My argument is that Ronaldos game gravitates to being great in box goalscorer, using factual data (number of goals from crosses, number of goals from pen and one touch goals in the 5 yard box), yours is "he is consistently scoring therefore he is...?".

He is great player, and a great goalscorer. What do you want me to say? Yea he is dribbling like Messi/Hazard/Robben? His vision is Zidane like? He is all about goals nowadays (which again he is SUPERB at) why are you making this being the case of something else is beyond me.

What are you even arguing about? That ronaldos all around game is not average these days? He is not even top 5 (Isco, Modric, Kroos, Benz, Marcelo) in Real as far as influence beside goals goes and what does that make him? A great goalscorer!

 

[blaugrana1987]

Jamdav is right, its not coincidence he Always happens to be in the right place, its cause his off the ball movement is best in the world, it what Inzaghi or Ruud had as well. It looks easy and based on team support but in reality its what makes him a better goalscorer than most, still needs a quality pass of course to make use of it.
To me nowadays he is like a better version of Shevchenko, quality poacher and 16 area beast.
If you just look at him as a goalscorer rather than player compared to Messi he is up there with the best.

But that is not what he is saying. Shevchenko is a great goalscorer. Inzaghi as well. But Ronaldo is better goalscorer, and box player. Thats what I'm saying.

What JamDev is saying is that his consistency proves he doesnt' rely on service. Yes he does, the same way Ozil relies on end product. Its two way street, in Messi/Maradona case its one way street. They where/are superb in everything which is CLEARLY not the case with Ronaldo.

 

[raskolnikov]

Messi had a bunch more games, everyone forgets that.

Doesnt make the gap so huge as they pictured it to be

 

[raskolnikov]

But that is not what he is saying. Shevchenko is a great goalscorer. Inzaghi as well. But Ronaldo is better goalscorer, and box player. Thats what I'm saying.

What JamDev is saying is that his consistency proves he doesnt' rely on service. Yes he does, the same way Ozil relies on end product. Its two way street, in Messi/Maradona case its one way street. They where/are superb in everything which is CLEARLY not the case with Ronaldo.

Well yeah, thats Obvious, quality player scores more in a better team able to provide better service, you put Ronaldo in stoke and he wont be scoring 50 goals, we teleport Batistuta to current Real and he be scoring more than he did at Fiorentina.
Messi would also be less good in a lesser team since they wouldnt understand him as good as Barca players do, make combinations less often, dont make runs when he wants them to, do'nt make space for him to dribble etc.

 

[blaugrana1987]

The whole aspect of Messis game is erased when comparing him to Ronaldo its becoming tragicomic. It wasn't like that when Ronaldinho was around...He would never won Bdor if todays standards where used.

Ronnie, how many goals? 30.
Okeish...

Torres, how many goals? 38.

Wow...Here is bdor for you son!

 

[blaugrana1987]

Well yeah, thats Obvious, quality player scores more in a better team able to provide better service, you put Ronaldo in stoke and he wont be scoring 50 goals, we teleport Batistuta to current Real and he be scoring more than he did at Fiorentina.
Messi would also be less good in a lesser team since they wouldnt understand him as good as Barca players do, make combinations less often, dont make runs when he wants them to, do'nt make space for him to dribble etc.

Of course, difference being put any top 5 player of today in Stoke (Messi, Neymar, Hazard, Robben) and they would surely look more impressive then Ronaldo for simple fact that they are just ultimately better with the ball in their feet which is the point of this game.

You could see in WC, even knackered, Messi making most dribbles, putting players (higuain, ADM, palacio) in phenomenal chances with pin point passes, dribbling and scoring from crazy angles (Iran, Bosnia, Nigeria), he just made difference and thats the difference Ronaldo CAN'T make and thats what I'm arguing about.

In the end I'll just finish with this...Ronaldo in Manchester Utd scored plenty of goals playing as winger (even though at the end Rooney was slightly sacrificed as striker). But he played as player magnet, fast paced cross machine and long range sharpshooter. In Real he clearly (this really can't be argued) dropped these aspects of his game and upped his goalscoring game. He NEVER scored more from inside the box with, and never did he score LESS outside. He never dribbled less then he dribbles now, and he never had as little touches as he does now. That proves that he simply became other type of player, and that is primary goalscorer who NEEDS service because if there is none last 3 months happen.

Messi on the other hand still dribbles like crazy, creates even more chances and passes to his teammates and scores as many goals he did in his best day. He changed very little, but Ronaldo had to change ton because Ronaldo from Utd could never close on Messi goals and thats what matters the most when comparing them these days.

 

[JamDav1982]

But that is not what he is saying. Shevchenko is a great goalscorer. Inzaghi as well. But Ronaldo is better goalscorer, and box player. Thats what I'm saying.

What JamDev is saying is that his consistency proves he doesnt' rely on service. Yes he does, the same way Ozil relies on end product. Its two way street, in Messi/Maradona case its one way street. They where/are superb in everything which is CLEARLY not the case with Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is scoring more goals than the likes of Inzaghi etc ever did and also gets involved in far more build up play etc.

As much as you try to reduce him to a pure penalty box player he leads Real for assists this season and has been in the top three for assists the previous two.

Now these are not clever assists like Messi but he gets them as he is an athlete with phenomenal movement that gets into dangerous areas.

Ronaldo has a huge impact on the game outside the box the way Inzaghi etc never did. Ronaldos pace and movement have made Real the best one/two sides in the world on the counter attack.

So comparing him to the likes of Inzaghi is way off as he offers far more to his team mates and more outside of the box.

 

[Ode to Django]

Inzaghi was clutch, more than anything with his awesome celebrations after scoring a tap in, hence why he was loved. He didn't need to be anything else with the team we had, he was ideal & his movement/intelligence was outstanding, always on the last shoulder being a pest.

Inzaghi was Pirlo's dream, hence they had such great combinations.

Who cares how the goals go in.

 

[Ursegor]

Everytime he scores 2 or 3 goals people in this thread start embarrassing themselves.

"Hurp da derp, how many dribbles DOE? Meehhssi still gunna win Bullon d'Or. OMG, DOSE tap ins, glorified Mario Gomez. Di Maria/Modric/Isco Madrid's best player."

Cringing hard. Stop it.

 

[footyfan]

"Que verguenza, que verguenza"

http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2015/03/11/champions/1426028514_443447.html

Funny how that statement is pretty apt right now for this thread too

 

[blaugrana1987]

Ronaldo is scoring more goals than the likes of Inzaghi etc ever did and also gets involved in far more build up play etc.

As much as you try to reduce him to a pure penalty box player he leads Real for assists this season and has been in the top three for assists the previous two.

Now these are not clever assists like Messi but he gets them as he is an athlete with phenomenal movement that gets into dangerous areas.

Ronaldo has a huge impact on the game outside the box the way Inzaghi etc never did. Ronaldos pace and movement have made Real the best one/two sides in the world on the counter attack.

So comparing him to the likes of Inzaghi is way off as he offers far more to his team mates and more outside of the box.

Some points (pace and ability on counter) as well as his off ball movement (that is becoming more and more "here is the ball, I'll make run in box and you cross it to me") I agree with. Assist numbers I don't. If that was the case Cesc would be better then Xavi and Iniesta put together, which is not the case.

His playmaking skills are good, but nothing out of the ordinary. His positioning in attacking third is fantastic and that results in alot of easy goals and assits that I already mentioned.
Make no mistake, he is talented as fuck and he can give a good pass and make assist every once in a while, but generally these are one twos that end up with his teammate scoring. No shame in that, but it still doesn't make him all conquering complete player people rave about. Morten made a good point...When he scores a couple more then Messi he is considered best in the world purely on numbers alone. Every other part of the game is completely reduced to unimportant. As I said, if same standards applied on Ronnie, he would now be without bdor.