Does messi have any fault?

[companyofcules]

You are idiots, all of you. Then someone selects you as mods and you ban each other.

Stop fighting on every Messi related topic.
And this Mihai wrote a fucking phone book about Messi in his first day. Almost thought he is not that new.
Answer him or fuck off to your corners. I don't like reading stupid kids everyday.
Have some meat in your posts.

 

[companyofcules]

BTW nobody should get banned over hatting a player on a whole forum. That makes no legal sense and no social one. It's not about free speech, because that is mostly a pipe dream, but about basic human needs. All fools have competence and corners to fill. You can always limit the flame wars without banning by limiting access for a month on said topic

 

[Mihai Stefan]

You are idiots, all of you. Then someone selects you as mods and you ban each other.

Stop fighting on every Messi related topic.
And this Mihai wrote a fucking phone book about Messi in his first day. Almost thought he is not that new.
Answer him or fuck off to your corners. I don't like reading stupid kids everyday.
Have some meat in your posts.

I'm new here and I don't know what the rules are, excuse me, I'll learn in time, but as a Barcelona fan, I've been since 2010-11, since I was little, I always watched in the evening with my father and brother. You probably have some strict rules about what can be said about Barcelona or Messi, but I'm not here to break them, they're just some thoughts of mine about the situation we've been in for so many years.

 

[companyofcules]

I'm new here and I don't know what the rules are, excuse me, I'll learn in time, but as a Barcelona fan, I've been since 2010-11, since I was little, I always watched in the evening with my father and brother. You probably have some strict rules about what can be said about Barcelona or Messi, but I'm not here to break them, they're just some thoughts of mine about the situation we've been in for so many years.

I don't make the rules, and this forum is quite liberal if not fully liberal. I didn't followed it for more than a decade so I have no track of banned people but from my return was just one and part of this little war. You are more than safe from this perspective.
Your points are valid if we ignore the problems of the team. But the team was suffering left and right from 2013. And Messi was not the one producing that. He mostly covered the real value of our team.
You are a fan from the best year in club football history

 

[Raketa10]

this is probably the stupidesd thread I have ever seen on this forum and I have seen a lot of stupid threads. People continue to amaze...

 

[DonAK]

Messi had some poor performances in the CL, at least for his own standards, but 2019 truly exposed how poor the rest of the players were when Messi in a god-like form was carrying us in the CL and we still couldn't get past Liverpool due to 10 out of 11 players shitting themselves.

This is one of the La Liga games that season where we lost vs. Real Betis.

 

[Mihai Stefan]

this is probably the stupidesd thread I have ever seen on this forum and I have seen a lot of stupid threads. People continue to amaze...

Why brother? Tell us with some arguments and justifications, I'm really curious about what you have to say.

 

[DonAK]

I don't think a Messi that pressed or played much better would have changed the outcome in most of those CL losses. Might have been closer losses though.

You had a goalkeeper that rarely made any big saves in big moments, which is still true years later.

A defence that couldn't cope with pressure and was slow.

A midfield that was slow, not very athletic and couldn't withstand the opponent pressing up high. Couldn't break the press. If anything guys like Rakitic made it worse like with that backpass to Alba at Anfield.

It's nearly impossible to win with so many serious flaws.

 

[Mihai Stefan]

I don't make the rules, and this forum is quite liberal if not fully liberal. I didn't followed it for more than a decade so I have no track of banned people but from my return was just one and part of this little war. You are more than safe from this perspective.
Your points are valid if we ignore the problems of the team. But the team was suffering left and right from 2013. And Messi was not the one producing that. He mostly covered the real value of our team.
You are a fan from the best year in club football history

And I agree with you, from 2013-14, especially with the choice of the new coach who destroyed our style of play, a lot of problems started, but I thought it was something temporary and it really was because the transfer period of 2014 , brought back to life the team that was once.

But after that big defeat with Atletico and Real at the beginning of 2016, it seems to me that it was like a funeral for that Barcelona from its glory years, and unfortunately it was not brought back to life, but I have a lot of confidence with what maybe Hansi Flick can do it this season, I can't wait for tonight's match.

Sometimes I sit and wonder if Tito Vilanova would have been healthy the whole time, although in the 2012-13 season, things weren't REALLY THAT bad, they still reached the UCL semi-final with Bayern and a championship won with 100 points.

 

[companyofcules]

And I agree with you, from 2013-14, especially with the choice of the new coach who destroyed our style of play, a lot of problems started, but I thought it was something temporary and it really was because the transfer period of 2014 , brought back to life the team that was once. But after that big defeat with Atletico and Real at the beginning of 2016, it seems to me that it was like a funeral for that Barcelona from its glory years, and unfortunately it was not brought back to life, but I have a lot of confidence with what maybe Hansi Flick can do it this season, I can't wait for tonight's match. Sometimes I sit and wonder if Tito Vilanova would have been healthy the whole time, although in the 2012-13 season, things weren't REALLY THAT bad, they still reached the UCL semi-final with Bayern and a championship won with 100 points.

As I said, the treble in my opinion was just 4 people being heads and sholders above anyone else, not about Barca solving issues. Bayern exposed many things even if the team was suffering from the illness of Tito and many injuries. Problems that were never solved.
One vs one we were very poor while Real brought the best bar some players that went to oil clubs like City, PSG.
Even Bayern got big names in many areas while we played only Masia or some second tier players. UCL is a cup and favours real talent not fancy football.
Let's take Ramos vs Pique, one was a star from his youth, Pique was a very tehnical defender with some clinical interceptions due to his tehnical ability. In our team he was briliant for 3 years combined, in other teams he will be a benchwarmer because resisting pressure is absolutely vital as a defender.

Take Busquets, benchwarmer. No team outside our sistem will play him as the sole CDM especially after 2015 when he was in no shape to cover space.
Sadly Neymar and Suarez had no wining mentality to keep the trio compesanting for the lack of basic needs. And Messi is not an extrovert, he was happy with his new friends making him feel good. That is his only flaw.

And yeah, we had no important manager until Flick, maybe that was another issue in not keeping the trio motivated and in check

 

[Mihai Stefan]

I don't think a Messi that pressed or played much better would have changed the outcome in most of those CL losses. Might have been closer losses though.

You had a goalkeeper that rarely made any big saves in big moments, which is still true years later.

A defence that couldn't cope with pressure and was slow.

A midfield that was slow, not very athletic and couldn't withstand the opponent pressing up high. Couldn't break the press. If anything guys like Rakitic made it worse like with that backpass to Alba at Anfield.

It's nearly impossible to win with so many serious flaws.

I will answer both of your answers here, I admit that in 2019, Messi was a ONE MAN ARMY, but the matches in which he really played extremely well and the team to say that it was too weak, it's too far from me honestly. The match with Real Betis is an exception from that season, with all my respect for you. In the same way, I could have given the match against Real Madrid, exactly from the same season, and said that "look how well Barcelona played without Messi, and in an elclasico".

And if it is still about the Barcelona/Rakitic midfielders, in 2019, Rakitic really had a nice impact on Barcelona, if you remember the goal against Tottenham, from the same season, or the assists for Messi, in the UCL groups. (I don't know for sure if they were UCL groups or LaLiga, not to confuse).

As it comes to my topic and what you wrote, in 2019, you know very well that Barcelona had great opportunities to score against Liverpool at Anfield, and they all came as passes from Messi, but still, I can blame on Jordi Alba for missing that opportunity vs Allison? I don't think that Jordi Alba is paid to have a good finish in front of the goal, the same with Coutinho, who was good as an attacking midfielder, but Valverde always played him on the left side in attack, I could never understand why. And you also had Suarez, to score, since Messi created the chances and did not appear in the square area at all, but any phase when Suarez could score on goal, he always had three defenders next to him, which forced him to shoot from very weak positions.

I agree with what the Barcelona fans say, like the defense was extremely weak, Pique with his mistakes, Ter stegen with a lot of balls to save (2 goals at Anfield, mainly because of him), as well as Jordi Alba, but NO THE ATTACK wasn't brilliant at all, in all the famous eliminations from 2016-21, (2-0 atletico, 4-0 PSG/ 3-0 Juve, 3-0 Roma, 4-0 Liverpool, 8-2 Bayern, 4-1 PSG), you conceded a lot of goals and only lost 0-0, it's not like you lost a match 5-3, you scored 3 goals but the defense being very weak, you couldn't qualify further and from here my obsession with this problem, because you still had Suarez and Neymar and the goat in the team.

 

[malvolio]

You made a thread to stir up some shit, didn't you?

 

[companyofcules]

From my experience we never had fabulous teams if you take them out of the system and we won only when we got an inspiring manager that had a great attack.

Is also due to our philosophy that leads people into delusions.
Take Cubarsi, most of our fans debate his passing, not his heading ability.
That will never happen outside our world despite many teams trying to copy our way.
And from my experience once the manager, the trio gets dusty, we get mauled in CL.
Happened in my youth too.
Let's take our biggest hype outside Messi. Xavi.
Xavi is not Zidane, he is a system player. If the system falls apart Xavi can't push players around and score. Xavi more than Zidane needs a system. Is very important in cups if you have 5 letal players. You can't park the buss or cage 5 players. You can for sure cage one and let others pass sideways and then expose Busquets, Pique on space.

 

[fergus90]

Messi's 18/19 seemed like a one man mission to bring back the CL. I think in part probably because he felt could have done more in the exits in 16/17 and 17/18 and also because of his age and the squad around him - it was the genuine final chance as he started to get older.

The main issue though is if Messi didn't show up, no one else did - absolutely no one. Suarez for all his plaudits was piss poor for the vast majority of CL matches when it mattered. We basically tried to beat organised systems with individual brilliance.

 

[companyofcules]

We should remember CL is a cup, in the League our system is superior.
Never failed up to Setien. We were trash but still were better at it bar none. They needed to pay the refs to win some silverware even in 2017 or 2014.

In terms of cups you need firepower and people that can run to cover space. You aren't playing fools in UCL but real talents that need just 2 chances to send you home. Try to tell catalans that Busquets is a system player that exposed us badly and you get decapitated. Then we played a CDM as a CB for ages (Mascherano).
That is just arrogant behavior and not taking football seriously.