Zlatan is something of a CL-flop, but, all these modern goalscoring records aren't as great as they seem, its not that the modern greats score at a far higher rate, they just play way more games than they did in the past.
Erling Haaland
- Thread starter behindbrowneyes
- Start date
Zlatan is something of a CL-flop, but, all these modern goalscoring records aren't as great as they seem, its not that the modern greats score at a far higher rate, they just play way more games than they did in the past.
Temptation
Well-known member
He had only 6 serious attempts in a CL.
2005, 06 with Juve.
2007, 08, 09 with Inter.
2010 with Barca.
Everything after that were average CL teams.
For example, Lewandowski played for 8 seasons at Bayern (much stronger than Juve or Inter) who were always in top 3-4 clubs in Europe and managed to win it only once in 8 attempts.
Not a super glorious CL carreer either if we want to be honest.
So, they both suck.
But Zlatan is at least funny
It's not even about winning the entire thing. Atleast perform well. Zlatan didn't.
Zlatan has one of the worst CL knockout record ever. Individually and collectively.
This guy managed to hinder Prime Inter and Barca from winning the CL/ treble. Unique achievement.
After Messi and Ronaldo, RL9 has the best goal ratio and probably the most goals in CL knockout matches.
I mean even in International Football, for a weaker national team, RL9 already has considerably more goals than Zlatan does.
You see the trend since you're an expert at studying player trends and stuff....
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Look, stats are extremely easily to manipulate.
I have been doing it for years.
Suarez had horrible CL knockout and away record at Barca.
Messi had horrible CL record in away KO matches.
He did score goals at Camp Nou, but for years, he was a ghost (goals wise) on every single away CL important match, especially from quarters onwards.
I am not saying that Messi is bad or anything.
I am just pointing, for the sake of an argument how you can cherry pick stats of any player and turn him into a GOAT or into a WOAT, based on how you cherry pick stats.
So, let's make Messi a WOAT (Worst of all time) in this example:
From 2012 till today, in 11 straight CL years, playing for 2 of the best clubs in the world, he scored only 1 CL goal on away matches if we count only quarters, semis and finals (when you meet the toughest opponents).
I know, I know, you can meet tough opponents in 1/8 also, but I cherry-picked stats from quarters onwards to suit my agenda and to make it look more dramatic.
So, hear some intense drama now:
Messi hasn't scored an away CL goal in KO matches (quarters, semis and finals) for 9 years straight.
Or: he scored only 1 CL away KO goal after 2011'.
And then you say that Zlatan's 6 CL years with Juve, Inter and Barca are horrible?
Are you trying to say that Zlatan is as bad as Messi, to some extent?
2012:
1/4 Milan 0:0
1/2 Chelsea 0:1
2013:
1/4 Psg 2:2, Messi, Xavi pen
1/2 Bayern 0:4
2014:
1/4 Atletico 0:1
2015:
1/4 Psg 1:3, Neymar x1, Suarez x2
1/2 Bayern 3:0, 2:3 Neymar x2
Final: Juve 3:1, Raki, Suarez, Neymar
2016:
1/4 Barca:Atletico 0:2
2017:
1/4 Juve 0:0
2018:
1/4 Roma 0:3
2019:
1/4 Man Utd 1:0, Shaw Own goal
1/2 Liverpool 0:4
2020:
1/4 Bayern 2:8, Alaba own goal, Suarez
2021:
KOd in 1/8 by Psg
2022:
KOd in 1/8 by Real
** Once again, this post is based on cherry picking, to show how you can turn any player into shit, to suit your agenda.
And as said earlier, Zlatan is at least insanely funny:
pers
Junior Member
Messi played for Barcelona coz he is Messi. Lewy played for Bayern coz he is Lewy. Zlatan played for several not top clubs coz he is Zlatan
Horatio
You're welcome
Historic day in barcaforum history. Stunning confession!!!
Temptation
Well-known member
Don't find Zlatan funny at all. Rather cringe.
The Zlatan jokes were funny about 12 years back. Now they're stale and repetitive.
The beauty of humans lies in evolution with age. Zlatan is still sticking to his decade old schtick.
At 40, it's just embarrassing. Gotta evolve with the times. That battle with Lukaku was such a massive self inflicted L. Came off as an utter idiot. Imagine letting Lukaku of all people do that to you on a Football pitch.
The people who find him amusing are the ones giggling at the same joke a 100 times. Pass.
The Zlatan jokes were funny about 12 years back. Now they're stale and repetitive.
The beauty of humans lies in evolution with age. Zlatan is still sticking to his decade old schtick.
At 40, it's just embarrassing. Gotta evolve with the times. That battle with Lukaku was such a massive self inflicted L. Came off as an utter idiot. Imagine letting Lukaku of all people do that to you on a Football pitch.
The people who find him amusing are the ones giggling at the same joke a 100 times. Pass.
jamrock
Senior Member
Messi played for Barcelona coz he is Messi. Lewy played for Bayern coz he is Lewy. Zlatan played for several not top clubs coz he is Zlatan
BBZ wasn't using lewa playing only for BAYERN as a negative though, if anything is was being used as a positive, sayng Bayern are always amongst the teams to be in with a chance to win the CL for the time lewa was with them.
So I'm not seeing how your response was a retort for what he said.
You just drew for Messi's name for the sake of it, without it helping your argument in anyway, if anything he would just Said Messi won 4 CL playing for 1 team only.
But again he wasn't using lewa only playing for bayern as a negative in that context. Lol
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Statistics are easy to manipulate against those not familiar with/trained in them.
For instance, BBZ exclusively packages descriptive statistics (raw numbers, tabulations, cross-tabulations) in inferential form (i.e., draws conclusions or associations or "causal" relationships from them).
But doing so in rigorous practice requires sampling/sampling distributions and computation of sampling error (i.e., uncertainty in how a particular sample matches to the population for which we're drawing inferences).
But since only people with engineering/biomedical/medical/social science background would know this stuff, BBZ has been running train on these forums.
Used to call him out on this since day 1
For instance, BBZ exclusively packages descriptive statistics (raw numbers, tabulations, cross-tabulations) in inferential form (i.e., draws conclusions or associations or "causal" relationships from them).
But doing so in rigorous practice requires sampling/sampling distributions and computation of sampling error (i.e., uncertainty in how a particular sample matches to the population for which we're drawing inferences).
But since only people with engineering/biomedical/medical/social science background would know this stuff, BBZ has been running train on these forums.
Used to call him out on this since day 1
You are normally quite a good judge but not in this instance. Sounds like you simply hate him for some unknown reason and your judgement has gone out of the window.
Is is a personal thing ?
The ego is just an act incidentally
Temptation
Well-known member
Find the act cringeworthy.
Everything has a sell-by date.
A standup comedian using the same punchlines for many years ain't funny anymore.
Look at Roy Keane, the man has overdone the hardman act so much that people forget what a fantastic Footballer he was and think of him as some kinda hard tackling grafter.
The dumbest thing a Footballer can do is oversell his personality. Takes away from the actual things you should be remembered for.
CR7 is a fantastic example. Always out there, doing photoshoot, ads and what not. But he has never sold himself as anything other than the Footballer he is. So that doesn't take anything away from his legacy and presents him in the light he should be presented in.
pers
Junior Member
Of course he was. At the end he even said both sucks. Lewy played 8 years and ONLY ONCE win CL is positive? Be real. I just used Messi coz it is Barcelona forum nothing more. My argument is Messi and Lewy played for top teams for a reason. Zlatan didn't for a reason as well but ok you can think whatever you want.
Temptation
Well-known member
Yup.
He failed to fit in at Prime Barca which is a dream team for any attacker really. He stuck out like a sore thumb in certain games and Pep thought even Bojan would be a better fit.
Hence he had to level down and go to a lower level(2011 Milan in a declining Serie A followed by Paris).
That's how Football works.
If you perform well enough you get your chance at the highest level. If you don't do well there you'll have to deal with a downgrade. Zlatan got his chance.
That Barcelona team would make alot of very good individual attackers look average. Another one who came later was Alexis who was a top level player in his prime, but looked just good in the Barca of those years.
Zlatan was excellent in the first half of the season. And it has to be said, there was an issue playing for Zlatan strength as a striker and also playing for Messi strength.
Obviously in the end the right decision was made, but in that time frame you may drop a prime Lewandowski or even Cristiano and they too may struggle to co-exist with the version of Messi that was developing. The one that (rightly) everything was built for and ended up consuming the striker role until the arrival of Suarez 3/4 years later.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Pep hated a true no9 for his whole coaching career.
Only lately, after not winning Cls for who knows how many years in a row, he gave up and moved away from his ideas with Haaland.
As Porque said, in 2010, probably even Van Basten, Cr7 and Lewa would have been benched by Pep.
I mean, even a few Months ago, Pep's main pick was playing with 6 attacking midfielders as 6 false nines before he bought Haaland.
Zlatan and Barca 2010:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aleNadb0bhc
Home of Barca Fans
