Sorin
Well-known member
Not if you stick him in the middle of the attack with speedy wingers or inverted strikers.
Do you think Messi has the stamina, speed and willingness to track back to be a winger again? Have some perspective man. He's almost 31 years old and unless we want to bury him 10 matches into the season, he'll always be our least worked player and not a winger. Look, I acknowledge that Messi somewhat presents a tactical problem but let's be real here, he is the least of our worries or tactical problems, both for attack and defense. That you even fault him for our lack of quality in midfield is hugely unfair. Do you think Rakitic can bring the ball forward? Paulinho? Gomes? Iniesta is mostly finished at top level, doesn't count. Who do you want to act as a playmaker when there are none in our team? It's like we have prime Xavi and Iniesta in midfield and Messi cramps their styles. If he doesn't come deeper the other can't bring the ball to him. How is that not the main problem for our lack of any sort of midfield quality?
henias
New member
I remember you criticising Dembele like hell, not surprised who you suddenly would turn to now. Like I said, doesnt work that way. It's useless having Messi in front in between lines and workhorses behind. It's easier to contain Messi that way. Messi always has a free role in Barcelona (sort of a False 9 role) but what lacked was the lack of pace on the flanks by Suarez and Roberto. What is evident is that that were clear tactical problems that no one is able to receive passes upfront with due to how flat they are playing. Furthermore, Roma is playing 3 at the back but Barca failed to exploit that and chose to hide behind their midfield. Messi has always played much better with a winger, to link up and interchange positions and create loads of distractions.
U cant really blame Messi for tactical issues when there is already a huge tactical disadvantage from Barcelona's approach against Roma.
jamrock
Senior Member
What you are saying re messi makes zero sense, it not Messi's fault he has to drop need and play Midfield, Messi as been doing this to some extent or another since pep, but then we had the right players and tactics to take advantage of it.
It's the club & coaches fault, the club for not providing the right players over the years & the manager for playing this backwards ass 442, with zero creative in midfiel, what else is he suppose to do under these circumstances, stay up field & hope for Gomes, paulinho & rakitic to get him the ball?.
If the club & coach had the right players to play a real 4-2-3-1 which is what valverde is trying to play & fails every time.
Then he would be surrounred by 2 wide players who can keep the with & all so cut in as needed providing him with more passing options as well as space to run into when he chooses to do so.
People complain too much about Messi & saurez without taking the time to realize they play like this because the setup is shit & the setup is shit because we lack the players to do things the right way & in the case of the coach he is also not up to the standard required.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
I didn't, I said I've concerns about his game and pointed out to those things, said that working on them will be the difference between him being a starter and superstar.
As I said before, this has been pressing problem in the team set up since Tata, not just Roma game, so let's assume that EV is just the worst coach in the world, thing is what can a new coach do? Messi has played less than a year in RW and we played our best football, but even before it he was settling too much deep in both Barca and NT, I can understand it with NT since they are total shit, but in Barca, even the most incompetent midfield line we had was way better than Argentina.
He need to start accepting moving forward, sure we need better coaching, surely we need better midfielder. But we need Messi to do his own share of "tactical sacrifice" just like he did in 2015 when he accepted to get out of his prefered place to help Suarez
Again, there is no defense for what happened in in Roma, but again we have to look deeper in it.
When EV came, he was promised to have both Neymar and Verratti and he ended up with paulinho and Deulofue instead. He decided not to fool himself thinking Messi is still a RW like Lucho did, he played him with full abilities and protected the defense with conservative approach, till January I can't fault him really as he just worked with what he had. When Dembele and Coutinho was available, he already built his philosophy in the team and didn't try to change it, that is a mistake although understandable for such hesitation to make a lot of changes in the approach with 2 new players. But when a team exposed it we paid a hefty price
jairzinho
Senior Member
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Guys it's allowed to criticize players. Even if [MENTION=11668]khaled_a_d[/MENTION] criticized him or had doubts I don't see why you would come and condemn him or say I told you so later.
It's a strange thing I've been noticing is rampant lately.
I mean if someone said: He's going to full 100% or that he's absolutely shit, sell sell sell, and he proves said person wrong, then sure, go and dig into him because someone making judgements on a player after a few months is not very wise, but to have doubts or criticism....is normal and is the point of forums, how discussions starts and keep going on.
It's a strange thing I've been noticing is rampant lately.
I mean if someone said: He's going to full 100% or that he's absolutely shit, sell sell sell, and he proves said person wrong, then sure, go and dig into him because someone making judgements on a player after a few months is not very wise, but to have doubts or criticism....is normal and is the point of forums, how discussions starts and keep going on.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Those guns on Strootman are going to inspire a BBZ rant with a link to highlights of Barcelona 2005 or 2006 v Chelsea.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
the competition has only been around for 60 years, so of course we aren't going to win in the other 50
every single big team had their golden era where they won CLs in bunches (just like us with ronaldinho, messi, xavi, iniesta).
milan won 3 of them in 6 years with the dutch trio and maldini, baresi.
bayern won 3 in a row in the 70s with muller and beckenabuer and have won ONLY 2 in the next 40 years.
madrid won 6 in the 50s and 60s with di stefano, puskas etc. and since then have won more in 2 "golden periods", one of which is going on right now and causing metldowns all over this forum.
liverpool won 4 in 9 years when they were the best team in the world and have won 1 in the next 30 years.
you are insanely obsessed about CL, to the point of not seeing that we are just another historic club who has just finished their golden generation. accept it and wait for the next. very few other historic clubs can claim they had BOTH success AND style at the peak of their powers. only the 80s milan and real i would say. not even bayern (2013 exception), not even juve, not even united.
and the so called tall, physical sides like chelsea, atletico, roma, juventus...sure they beat up a barca on obvious decline but how many CLs have they won again???
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henias
New member
He doesnt need to be a superstar just yet, but he is definitely someone who can post a lot of threat and pace especially with Messi.
Even if you replace Messi with another player, Barcelona whole approach wont triumph against Roma. It's useless comparing with Argentina because they have other problems that are not similar with Barcelona now. U cant just dictate that because Messi hasnt had success with Barcelona or Argentina now, he automatically becomes a problem. It isnt a math equation. Messi is just a minor part of the system but using him properly can reap huge returns.
I do agree that Messi tend to be less sharp in recent matches, but again everyone was performing badly. Messi cannot always be the change when he looks like a normal player like the rest.
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Real Madrid won 5 CLs with mostly short and technical players.
Puskas 1.72m
Di Stefano 1.78m.
Francisco Gento 1.71m
Jose Maria Vidal 1.79m
Jose Maria Zarraga 1.79m
Their attack and midfield
Where are the strong, powerful players that won Real Madrid all those CL titles that our players couldn't win?
@BBZ8800
Heck one of their defenders Pachin was 1.76m lol.
Puskas 1.72m
Di Stefano 1.78m.
Francisco Gento 1.71m
Jose Maria Vidal 1.79m
Jose Maria Zarraga 1.79m
Their attack and midfield
Where are the strong, powerful players that won Real Madrid all those CL titles that our players couldn't win?
@BBZ8800
Heck one of their defenders Pachin was 1.76m lol.
Sorin
Well-known member
It's also right to argue with someone if you don't think what they say is true, right? I mean, I don't think khaled's or my rights to post our thoughts are being blocked here.
Every player deserves criticism for what happened in Rome. Some more than others.
IMO Messi's role in the team doesn't hinder our midfield as much as other factors. The only thing that I can think of, is that Messi lack of movement makes him hard to find sometimes, which is a valid concern. Not the biggest. Not by a long shot.
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Yeah for sure.
I agree with you too. Messi's lack of movement is an issue, but barely anyone in the team makes any runs. Suarez is just as much of a problem than Messi and we can live without Suarez, but not without Messi so it's obvious who needs to go.
Also, with a proper midfield that searches for the ball constantly moving and have the ability to withstand pressure and carry the ball forward, Messi would stay more advanced and in better goalscoring positions.
snowy
Well-known member
ya know what, I'd take that deal in a NY min.! Based on what you guys were posting back on March 4th [just need to flick back to p. 229 ], you'd do a way better job than this bunch of compliant clowns at Barca Management. And maybe that's the problem, too many yes men at Camp Nou more concerned about keeping their jobs than ruffling a few feathers and contradicting the status quo.
edit: looking back at those posts, Lelouch looks like Nostradamus and she got banned, EXcommunicated
[Happy Friday the 13th btw]she looks terrified on that pic, she foresaw that whole fiasco and tried to warn us!!!!
Luke 4:24 "Truly I tell you... "
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