Ernesto Valverde - V1

[MagIX]

Dude, it's not only about playing beautiful football! Do you think this team will be competitive or anywhere near the top of the Liga table if it wasn't for Messi? Statistically, it's impossible! The biggest issue for me is the team and the coach are too dependent on Messi. Under Pep we played as a team, people can say we depended on Messi too, sure but we had the holy trinity too. It was a team! That team is long gone. Barca under Lucho depended on MSN but the responsibility became more linear or in math, we call it fitted line plot for Messi. We won the 2014-15 with a spectacular performance from Messi in the KO stage. All of us still remember Messi single-handedly destroyed Bayern in the Semis, but in the coming seasons when he went messing in KOs we didn't only get knocked out, we got thrashed! So this year, he is on fire and almost taking us single-handedly (again) to the final. Come next year, who to say he will have the same motivation? he might be demotivaded, have an off day, not in the mood and we are going to get thrashed again. I have no idea how delustinal some of the fans here thinking we have a genious manager, when the fact is take Messi out and we are at the bottom half of Liga table, an effect won't happen (or slightly will effect) if you take CR7, Salah, KDB, Neymar out of their teams.

I have to go to work!

As you write, Messi played a key role for any coach: messi dependencia for any coach
It's EV fault if he's also, like any other coach, dependent on Messi ?

Pep team...it's was a dream team, Pep had at his disposal a generation of talent that happens once in a 100 years, same school and used to playing together.
This team is gone and it is irreplicable
EV doesn't have Xavi and Iniesta on his prime.

Lucho had Neymar and a younger Messi/Iniesta/Busquets/Suarez/Pique....
EV picked up the Lucho team in pieces and he lost Neymar, a BIG loss.
He got the 300mio panic buys Dembele and Coutinho, that so far they've provided virtually nothing to the team
Lenglet and the old Vidal have been more important than the 2 wonder boys....
If these 2 wonder boys would perform as wonder boys, then we could be less dependent on Messi.
But sadly we are still reliant on old guard players Suarez, Rakitic, Busquests, Messi, Pique.....despite we have spent 300Mio

I don't think, like many others, that EV's a genius, he has merits and demerits, for me he's doing good.

Honestly, I can't understand your absolute hatred of him.

 

[Horatio]

I don't think, like many others, that EV's a genius, he has merits and demerits, for me he's doing good.

Honestly, I can't understand your absolute hatred of him.

This is how I feel about EV as well. I’d go as far as to say he is a good fit for the current Barca team and situation. Many people opted for other trainers but they are all failing with their current team, get fired or lose the dressing room.

Just hoping we transition to a more offensive Barca with the new players well get coming seasons.

 

[Havesaks]

Are you retarded?

A lot of people dont really care about those trophies, and i dont consider it special to win those games. Its good to win those ofc, because it will get barcas name out there, in a PR-sense and a trophy is still a trophy. But it doesnt really say much about quality.
when bilbao won it in 2015, they had several weeks more prepartion than us for example. Or when we won 5-4 against sevilla, it looked like pre-season matches.

 

[Havesaks]

Why so rude?
For me, Pep won 3 La Ligas and 2 CLs.

I would also trade all those plastic trophies invented in the last 20 years for let's say 1 La Liga or a CL.

European Supercup, who cares?
Spanish Supercup, who cares?
World club championship, meh. Level of Confederations cup in NT terms.
CDR, slightly above Spanish Supercup. Way below any meaningful trophy.

I would still count Copa del Rey as major trophy. so 3 league, 2 cls and 2 copas. It may has lost some value, but I still count peps 2 wins. Who doesnt remember how Real Madrid celebrated their last copa like a leauge title

 

[Alik]

Why so rude?

Not rude. Genuine question when you say you would trade 14 trophies (which include 3 ligas and 2 CL) for 1 liga or 1 CL. Where's the logic in that?

For me, Pep won 3 La Ligas and 2 CLs.

For me, I wouldn't discount trophies that are won as part of a "set". I think there's something special in winning a treble or a sextuple. Something few clubs can claim.

 

[SeloBarca]

1. we didn't win only because Messi was on fire. We conceded 4 against Psg and 3 against Juve.
EV is having clean sheets all the time.
Messi on fire means nothing if you are conceding 3-4 per match, like past Barcas. Or Pep.
2. further, regarding your comment that we would suck without Messi.
Lol, you can't build a team who will be good both at:
1) serving Messi
2) and playing good enough without him, since it's main purpose is to feed Messi and play like 10 waterboys for Messi

For example, with Messi in a team it is hard to have a player who clashes with his position like Griezmann or Coutinho.
Without Messi, you can build a totally different attack.
Also, with Messi, you need midfielders to babysit for him, cover for him and just pass to him.
Without Messi, midfielders won't have to babysit all the time, but then they will need to create more and score more than today to compensate Messi's goals and assists.

As I have said before Liverpool's match, with Messi in a team, it is quite simple to build a strong defense and pass the ball to him.
You will win 1:0 or 2:0 in majority of matches.

Without Messi, the whole midfield and attacking line will get different duties.

Pep conceded less goals per season by attacking.
The last 2 years more shots have been made against us than any previous coach since before Pep.
The reason we concede less is becouse of Ter Stegen, not becouse we have some fantastic defence.
EV relies extremly much on Messi. The few times we dont play him, we struggle hard to even get the ball to the attack.

 

[Hamzah]

Barca gives up half chances, few of those shots are truly threatening. Of course ter stegen helps with his consistency and saving the few good chances Barca give up.

As for your second point, every Barca manager relied on messi, even Pep. it makes sense to build around your best player.

 

[Xtroverto]

Dude, it's not only about playing beautiful football! Do you think this team will be competitive or anywhere near the top of the Liga table if it wasn't for Messi? Statistically, it's impossible! The biggest issue for me is the team and the coach are too dependent on Messi. Under Pep we played as a team, people can say we depended on Messi too, sure but we had the holy trinity too. It was a team! That team is long gone. Barca under Lucho depended on MSN but the responsibility became more linear or in math, we call it fitted line plot for Messi. We won the 2014-15 with a spectacular performance from Messi in the KO stage. All of us still remember Messi single-handedly destroyed Bayern in the Semis, but in the coming seasons when he went messing in KOs we didn't only get knocked out, we got thrashed! So this year, he is on fire and almost taking us single-handedly (again) to the final. Come next year, who to say he will have the same motivation? he might be demotivaded, have an off day, not in the mood and we are going to get thrashed again. I have no idea how delustinal some of the fans here thinking we have a genious manager, when the fact is take Messi out and we are at the bottom half of Liga table, an effect won't happen (or slightly will effect) if you take CR7, Salah, KDB, Neymar out of their teams.

I have to go to work!

You have not been a Barsa fan for very long have you? You clearly don't even know the club's history in the league.

1939
1941
1943
1949
1962
1964
1978
1980
1987
2002

Those are the only years Barsa did not end up in top 4 since the end of the spanish civil war. 2 times in the last 39 season that is.

This season Messi did not play in the 5-1 mauling of Real Madrid, he also was not present in 0-4 mauling of Real Madrid in 2016 until subbed on when the game was already over. FC Barcelona will be perfectly fine without Messi, and it has nothing to do with who is the coach or what players are in the team or what type of football the team play, it is irrelevant. FC Barcelona has always been, and will always be a top club in Europe and the strongest in Spain alongside Real Madrid bar the occasional off season.

 

[Aryagorn]

EV got the 300mio panic buys Dembele and Coutinho, that so far they've provided virtually nothing to the team
Lenglet and the old Vidal have been more important than the 2 wonder boys....

Come on, now let's not get carried away. Yes, Vidal might have done more than Coutinho for us but Dembouz has definitely not been one that provided virtually nothing.

 

[George_Costanza]

You have not been a Barsa fan for very long have you? You clearly don't even know the club's history in the league.

1939
1941
1943
1949
1962
1964
1978
1980
1987
2002

Those are the only years Barsa did not end up in top 4 since the end of the spanish civil war. 2 times in the last 39 season that is.

This season Messi did not play in the 5-1 mauling of Real Madrid, he also was not present in 0-4 mauling of Real Madrid in 2016 until subbed on when the game was already over. FC Barcelona will be perfectly fine without Messi, and it has nothing to do with who is the coach or what players are in the team or what type of football the team play, it is irrelevant. FC Barcelona has always been, and will always be a top club in Europe and the strongest in Spain alongside Real Madrid bar the occasional off season.

First of all, it's Barca, not Barsa! Reading history from the wiki doesn't make you more Barca fan than others. Ok?

Second, Clasico has an entirely different calculation. It's a unique rivalry that provokes emotions to the limit. Not a good example to make your case here. Ok?

 

[Xtroverto]

First of all, it's Barca, not Barsa! Reading history from the wiki doesn't make you more Barca fan than others. Ok?

Second, Clasico has an entirely different calculation. It's a unique rivalry that provokes emotions to the limit. Not a good example to make your case here. Ok?

Barca means boat and has absolutely nothing to do with the team FC Barcelona while Barsa is simply the anglification of the catalan spelling Barça. I propose you read up on the letter ç, what it means and how it is pronounced.

 

[George_Costanza]

Barca means boat and has absolutely nothing to do with the team FC Barcelona while Barsa is simply the anglification of the catalan spelling Barça. I propose you read up on the letter ç, what it means and how it is pronounced.

That sound to the spelling you moron! So what's next? Change elephant to eleFant in English?

The fuck I have to waste my time with your nonsense!

 

[Havesaks]

Not rude. Genuine question when you say you would trade 14 trophies (which include 3 ligas and 2 CL) for 1 liga or 1 CL. Where's the logic in that?
.

Who would even assume thats what I ment?

 

[Xtroverto]

That sound to the spelling you moron! So what's next? Change elephant to eleFant in English?

The fuck I have to waste my time with your nonsense!

When I write Barsa it is perfectly clear to anyone with only a basic level of education that is it FC Barcelona I'm talking about. I guess you skipped on school boy

 

[Havesaks]

When I write Barsa it is perfectly clear to anyone with only a basic level of education that is it FC Barcelona I'm talking about. I guess you skipped on school boy

Dont waste time on that guy, he is to far gone from all the weed he smokes.
"Barca minus messi = alaves. " - how can anyone take one seriously if you sprout nonsense like that. Imo thats "ban-worthy", but thats just me.