Ernesto Valverde

Porque

Senior Member
Other than being a hard worker I don't see Roberto filling in for Vidal's strengths.

Vidal offers an option both from starting and from the bench, some games are very suitable for him and some games are not.
We are much more dynamic as a team with Vidal in the squad.

Agreed. I'd much rather Bob stayed rotating at RB, we keep Vidal because of his profile and look for someone in his vain for the squad next year.

I'm just second guessing what might happen at the squad given that Roberto is a Valverde favourite on a high wage who now wants to play back in midfield. A recipe for disaster.
 

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
Other than being a hard worker I don't see Roberto filling in for Vidal's strengths.

Vidal offers an option both from starting and from the bench, some games are very suitable for him and some games are not.
We are much more dynamic as a team with Vidal in the squad.

Exactly. They are both hard working but Vidal is a beast.
 

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
He's full of heart and drive but that's about it. He doesn't fit into our system, is not great technically and can be pretty loose with his discipline (both in the tackle and positionally).
 

George_Costanza

Active member
He's full of heart and drive but that's about it. He doesn't fit into our system, is not great technically and can be pretty loose with his discipline (both in the tackle and positionally).

Could you explain to us what is "our system"? And how do Valverde ideas fit and how he implements it into that system?
 

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
He's full of heart and drive but that's about it. He doesn't fit into our system, is not great technically and can be pretty loose with his discipline (both in the tackle and positionally).

It's all about pairing him with the right players. Vidal together with Rakitic and Busquets obviously doesn't work, but with two technical midfielders Vidal can take the role of providing "heart and drive" in midfield.

He could easily be paired with for example Arthur and Frenkie.
In other games he'll come on in the second half to not only work his own ass off but to give spark to the rest of the team.

And I disagree with his discipline. He's aggressive yes, but his "loose discipline" didn't show at all last season.
Technically he's not a typical Barca player, but he knows how to combine in the final third and even did so with Messi a couple of times.
He also adds a physical presence in both boxes and is dangerous in front of the opposition's goal.

Can't see any reason to sell him. He's a wonderful squad player.
 

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
I'm not going to explain the Barca system to you, I am taking that was a rhetorical question? The spine of the team have all either been brought up in the system or have been here long enough to play the system. Vidal is too long in the tooth to change now. Positionally speaking he just gets in the way most of the time or doesn't get into the space people are expecting him to get into. He struggles with quick one-two's, or give and go and hasn't developed a partnership with any of the midfielders. He can't play as the defensive pivot, as he drifts all the time and is not an attacking midfielder as he doesn't have the vision or a box to box midfielder. What he is good at is causing havoc and I suppose that is why Valverde plays him and that he adds a bit of bite into the midfield. Personally specking I have never really understood what he brings to the team. That is only my opinion. I am happy to have my mind changed.
 

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
It's all about pairing him with the right players. Vidal together with Rakitic and Busquets obviously doesn't work, but with two technical midfielders Vidal can take the role of providing "heart and drive" in midfield.

He could easily be paired with for example Arthur and Frenkie.
In other games he'll come on in the second half to not only work his own ass off but to give spark to the rest of the team.

And I disagree with his discipline. He's aggressive yes, but his "loose discipline" didn't show at all last season.
Technically he's not a typical Barca player, but he knows how to combine in the final third and even did so with Messi a couple of times.
He also adds a physical presence in both boxes and is dangerous in front of the opposition's goal.

Can't see any reason to sell him. He's a wonderful squad player.

Nice post. I don't see him playing in a three man midfield though. 4-4-2 perhaps.
 

Sorin

Well-known member
[tw]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="ro"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">&#55357;&#57000; Meet the coaching candidates! &#55357;&#57000;<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheBest?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TheBest</a> Men's Coach nominees:<br><br>&#55356;&#56809;&#55356;&#56831; Djamel Belmadi<br>&#55356;&#56811;&#55356;&#56823; Didier Deschamps<br>&#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56823; Marcelo Gallardo<br>&#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56823; Ricardo Gareca<br>&#55356;&#56810;&#55356;&#56824;<a href="https://twitter.com/PepTeam?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PepTeam</a><br>&#55356;&#56809;&#55356;&#56810; Jurgen Klopp<br>&#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56823; Mauricio Pochettino<br>&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56825; Fernando Santos<br>&#55356;&#56819;&#55356;&#56817; Erik ten Hag<br>&#55356;&#56807;&#55356;&#56823; Tite<br><br>Voting OPEN &#55357;&#56391;<a href="https://t.co/NRJ9Nz40FC">https://t.co/NRJ9Nz40FC</a></p>— FIFA.com (@FIFAcom) <a href="https://twitter.com/FIFAcom/status/1156535336580915201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">31 iulie 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/tw]

Bullshit!!! How the fuck is the best manager in the world not recognized for the awesome job he has done with Barcelona? I mean, no one could've done what Valverde did with such a limited squad. He won La Liga with 87 points you ungrateful cunts.
 

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not going to explain the Barca system to you, I am taking that was a rhetorical question? The spine of the team have all either been brought up in the system or have been here long enough to play the system. Vidal is too long in the tooth to change now. Positionally speaking he just gets in the way most of the time or doesn't get into the space people are expecting him to get into. He struggles with quick one-two's, or give and go and hasn't developed a partnership with any of the midfielders. He can't play as the defensive pivot, as he drifts all the time and is not an attacking midfielder as he doesn't have the vision or a box to box midfielder. What he is good at is causing havoc and I suppose that is why Valverde plays him and that he adds a bit of bite into the midfield. Personally specking I have never really understood what he brings to the team. That is only my opinion. I am happy to have my mind changed.

I see your point but you've seen Keita excel under pep. Don't think Vidal should be a starter but he is definitely useful for us.
 

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
[tw]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="ro"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">&#55357;&#57000; Meet the coaching candidates! &#55357;&#57000;<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheBest?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TheBest</a> Men's Coach nominees:<br><br>&#55356;&#56809;&#55356;&#56831; Djamel Belmadi<br>&#55356;&#56811;&#55356;&#56823; Didier Deschamps<br>&#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56823; Marcelo Gallardo<br>&#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56823; Ricardo Gareca<br>&#55356;&#56810;&#55356;&#56824;<a href="https://twitter.com/PepTeam?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PepTeam</a><br>&#55356;&#56809;&#55356;&#56810; Jurgen Klopp<br>&#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56823; Mauricio Pochettino<br>&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56825; Fernando Santos<br>&#55356;&#56819;&#55356;&#56817; Erik ten Hag<br>&#55356;&#56807;&#55356;&#56823; Tite<br><br>Voting OPEN &#55357;&#56391;<a href="https://t.co/NRJ9Nz40FC">https://t.co/NRJ9Nz40FC</a></p>— FIFA.com (@FIFAcom) <a href="https://twitter.com/FIFAcom/status/1156535336580915201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">31 iulie 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/tw]

Bullshit!!! How the fuck is the best manager in the world not recognized for the awesome job he has done with Barcelona? I mean, no one could've done what Valverde did with such a limited squad. He won La Liga with 87 points you ungrateful cunts.

:lol:
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
I'm not going to explain the Barca system to you, I am taking that was a rhetorical question? The spine of the team have all either been brought up in the system or have been here long enough to play the system. Vidal is too long in the tooth to change now. Positionally speaking he just gets in the way most of the time or doesn't get into the space people are expecting him to get into. He struggles with quick one-two's, or give and go and hasn't developed a partnership with any of the midfielders. He can't play as the defensive pivot, as he drifts all the time and is not an attacking midfielder as he doesn't have the vision or a box to box midfielder. What he is good at is causing havoc and I suppose that is why Valverde plays him and that he adds a bit of bite into the midfield. Personally specking I have never really understood what he brings to the team. That is only my opinion. I am happy to have my mind changed.

Yeah, the Vidal hype is strong on this forum in the last few Months.
Vidal is bringing the fighting spirit, which is awesome.
But as a footballer, he is just meh in this moment.

He is playing some weird first touch or 1-2s football all the time.
He is awesome at tackles, but not as a pivot, but as a midfielder flying over the pitch and tackling everyone who gets in his way.
For a defensive player, as a pivot, he ventures in attack too often and leaves his position exposed.
And for an attacking player, as a CAM, he is not that creative plus he is playing those weird 1-2s all the time which are kinda ruining our (slow) classical possession play around the box.

So, basically, he is a box to box CM with a heart and tackles, who needs a proper pivot behind his back and who usually needs a proper CAM or a more attacking player infront of him.
So, in Busi-Frenkie-Arthur, we have some defensive cover in Busi (and Frenkie) but we don't have anyone who is even able to enter into the final 3rd and do something crucial there.
In Vidal-Frenkie-Arthur, we are even worse.
With Busi, we at least have one slow, turtle, tree pivot who is at least holding his position and is not going into attack too often.
With Vidal-Frenkie-Arthur: who is a pivot here?
Frenkie loves to venture in attack too often and leaves his back exposed (a user from Netherland explained that this is why Ajax and NT coaches usually pair him in a double pivot formation where the 2nd guy can cover for him when he goes into an attacking mission). Vidal doesn't have a clear position and is not a pivot surely. Arthur is a guy for a double pivot. Till now, his defending seems average and I wouldn't trust putting him into a single pivot formation.
Then, if Frenkie and Arthur are double pivots, Vidal is useless as an attacking guy because he will roam all over the pitch and leave his CAM position.
If we'll play double pivot, the 3rd guy should be someone who can actually play a pass and shoot. Like Coutinho, the most hated guy Rakitic, Rafinha, Alena or Puig.

Anyway, a forum has some weird biases and obsessions even though the most often those ideas don't have too much logic in practice.
My current favorite crazy idea is:
Vidal-Frenkie-Arthur, a totally crazy and weird midfield (or the same: Busi-Frenkie-Arthur without any attacking player) paired with Semedo who can't do anything once when he enters into an attacking half.
Paired with a new crazy lineup: Dembele-Griezz-Messi attack, where we would have:
1. 3 midfielders who can't do anything in the attacking third
2. a RB who is scared to do anything around the opponent's box
3. an attacking trio with 2 false 9s or silent strikers, without a man in the box (again paired with 3 midfielders who will never shoot on goal)
= so sterile possession, Messipendencia and 10 Messi's shots from the edge of a box, here we come.
Since there is no way to do any other kind of a shot in that formation.

Even EV's crazy 442 without any wingers had more tactical sense than these new forum's ideas.
 
Last edited:

Devils

Senior Member
Glad to see FIFA acknowledge that Vavlerde is a piece of shit.

At least they got this one right.
 

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
[tw]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="ro"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">�� Meet the coaching candidates! ��<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheBest?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TheBest</a> Men's Coach nominees:<br><br>���� Djamel Belmadi<br>���� Didier Deschamps<br>���� Marcelo Gallardo<br>���� Ricardo Gareca<br>����<a href="https://twitter.com/PepTeam?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PepTeam</a><br>���� Jurgen Klopp<br>���� Mauricio Pochettino<br>���� Fernando Santos<br>���� Erik ten Hag<br>���� Tite<br><br>Voting OPEN ��<a href="https://t.co/NRJ9Nz40FC">https://t.co/NRJ9Nz40FC</a></p>— FIFA.com (@FIFAcom) <a href="https://twitter.com/FIFAcom/status/1156535336580915201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">31 iulie 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/tw]

Bullshit!!! How the fuck is the best manager in the world not recognized for the awesome job he has done with Barcelona? I mean, no one could've done what Valverde did with such a limited squad. He won La Liga with 87 points you ungrateful cunts.

How can they not nominate Ernesto "the league master" Valverde? Shows how laughable these awards are. GOAT coach winning titles left and right with a mediocre low budget Barca squad and doesn't even get mentioned...
 

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