Ernesto Valverde

Gaudi

Senior Member
Lol, BBZ blaming the players as usual. These players would've won the treble last year with a competent manager. What are you talking about? Hell they almost won the treble with the Spanish Moyes in charge, but the man just had to fuck it up because it is in his nature to get scared when he's about to win something big.

The team is fucking Spanish Champions in 4 times in the last 5 years, and here we are blaming the players. The players are the reason we've been champions these many times after Pep, not being managed by a single top manager. Only an acceptable one like Lucho.


I do agree with him on some points, but EVERY player, Messi included, has some flaws. L'pool is CL champion, I can find 10s of flaws from all their players.
But we have great squad on paper, full of talent. I like to read other forums as well, sometimes objectivity is better for "non fans", they all laugh at Valverde for having this FIFA cheat squad and play like this.
Yes, Semedo can have better final solution but he is more than good RB: fast, strong, good technique, same goes for Dembele, Arthur etc...

When a team plays good and one player doesn't then you need to question is there a problem with that player but when entire team plays awful - it's simple!
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Lol, BBZ blaming the players as usual. These players would've won the treble last year with a competent manager. What are you talking about? Hell they almost won the treble with the Spanish Moyes in charge, but the man just had to fuck it up because it is in his nature to get scared when he's about to win something big.

The team is fucking Spanish Champions in 4 times in the last 5 years, and here we are blaming the players. The players are the reason we've been champions these many times after Pep, not being managed by a single top manager. Only an acceptable one like Lucho.

Messi?

We hear songs about Barca's dominance and system in the last 13 years.
Remove Messi and you get a pile of overpriced, overhyped, lazy, past their prime, onedimensional crap.

EV is shit.
But our team is miles from you guys are imagining.
I was writing the same about Dembele for 2 years.
I guess that some folks will slowly accept some of things from my posts around 2021 I guess.

Go back to Rijkaard's days.
We played in a 3-option attacking way.
And we had CAM Deco who was creating, assisting, shooting and scoring a lot.

Onca again, Rijkaard's Barca from 2004-2006:
1. possession goals=yes
2. counterattacking goals with 3-4 fast attackers (Ronnie, Etoo, Guily, Messi)=yes
3. crosses and headers=Etoo, Ronnie, Larsson=yes
4. goals from CAM Deco=yes

Barca in the last 4 years:
1. possession goals=yes
2. goals from counters=rarely
3. goals from crosses and headers=never
4. goals from longrange shots and from CAMs=not enough

Now, for once, forget a usual forum crap about a functional midfield.
Let's concentrate ONLY on these 4 attacking patterns which I have described above.

Now, relax and look at Barca's goals from let's say 2004-05.
We don't have to play against parked buses that much because we played faster and tried to bring the ball faster in the attacking 3rd.
We have possession goals, solo goals, counters, crosses/headers, set pieces/headers, goals from CAM Deco.
Again, what we have today: only Messi, free kicks and possession goals.
Quite shit, sterile and predictable.
Now, a video:
 

Vilarrubi

New member
the worst part of all this is Valverde isn't even close to being sacked and he knows it. he survived Rome, then somehow he managed to survive Anfield.. the guy is a cockroach.

some of the players are obviously to blame also, so much apathy for players like Alba, Suarez, Rakitic.. i just can't stand them anymore

I was reading some other clubs forums and everyone is in agreement: how the fuck is this average midtable manager still at Barca?

We haven't sacked a manager for 16 years. After they kept him on after the 2 shocking CL defeats and Copa Final there's literally no way he can get sacked. We're with him til at least the end of the season. He is "unsackable" in the same way Rakitic is "untransferable".
 

Devils

Senior Member
In April 2020:

-Griezmann is terrible, he’s overrated and slow.
-FDJ was good at Ajax but Barca is too hight level for him and he is exposed here.
-Firpo is another overrated young player who is not good enough for Barca.
-Wague will never be good enough.
-Todibo is just another Yerry Mina.
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
Croatia had 3 workhorse midfielders and at least two were fast (Modric, Brozovic).
At least 2 could have scored goals and they can make an assist (Modric, Rakitic).
Who can shoot in Arthur-Alena-Roberto midfield? Maybe Alena.
Who can be a CAM/Playmaker in Arthur-Roberto-Alena? Nobody. Alena is young and meh. Arthur's forward game is on Dembele's IQ level. Roberto is just running around without any real purpose.

In attack, Croatia had 2 normal wingers.
Perisic as a LW. We have Griezmann. Griezmann is a better player but Perisic is a classical, fast (and strong) winger who can dribble, shoot and assist. Griezz is some silent playmaker who plays as a CAM-SS-false 9 from LW position.
Croatia in attack had 190+ cm tall Mandzukic. Wherever Croatia didn't know what to do: they just hoofed the ball forward to Mandzukic, he will control the ball and pass it to 2 true fast wingers, while Modric and Raki will run towards the box and lurk around the box in attempt to shoot and score.
Further, Croatia had motivation. Who was lazy in that team? All players played with 120%. Do you think that Busi, Suarez, Raki today, Alba, even Messi play with 120% in every match?

Also, what I am mentioning often, Croatia played in a 3-option attacking way:
1. if they can outplay an opponent in midfield=they will play with feet and try to create chance on the ground through teamplay, 1-2s, good passes or solo dribbles
2. they have an option to play on counters through 2 fast wingers in Perisic and Rebic (plus Vrsaljko)
3. or, if they struggle to control the match, or if can't break through the bus, they always have RM's option: cross, cross, cross since they have 3 tall targetmen in the box in:
Mandzukic 190cm
Perisic 186cm
Rebic 185cm

Now, I am asking you, what is Barca's gameplan and our options (not due to EV, but due to skillset of our players):
3 ways of attacking:
1. we can only play a possession game.
If it works=fine.
If now=we don't have any other option.
2. counterattacking game?
Well, we have not too fast Griezmann, slow Suarez, and fast Dembele.
But then, even if you give a ball to Dembele, he is too dumb and he will ruin every action.
So, our counterattacking game is=Dembele.
That means that this option doesn't exist. Because counting on Dumbele is not an option.
3. and the last option: if you struggle to break the opponent through the middle, possession, control, you can always turn to the ugliest style: cross the ball into the box, there will always be some havoc and lucky lose balls.
Can Barca do that? No.
Our only taller/stronger player is Suarez, and when he got injured, our 3 attackers were light Rafinha, light Griezz and super light Dembele (can he even jump and head the ball?).

So, Croatia had way weaker players than a current Barca.
But their team had sense.
All players played on their positions, more or less (they don't have Coutinho, Griezz, Roberto playing totally out of position).
Their attack can attack in 3 different ways.
Their midfield, even though technically weaker than Barca's, can still: create, run, cover, defend, jump, tackle but also, unlike Barca: assist, shoot and score.

Did you forget how Croatia, Liverpool, Real Madrid and France were scoring goals in semis and finals?
They would rarely tikitaka the opponent in 2018 in tight matches or outsmart them through the middle of the box.
Majority of goals came after counters, free kicks, corners and headers or from regular crosses and headers.

I mean, when Barca can't break the bus, what do we do?
Pass around the box till death and try to make 1-2s, solo dribbles or through balls even though all players are in the box (lol).
When it doesn't work, we just repeat the same over and over.

People will jump on me again with stupid replies: go watch Stoke.
But again, in maths way:
1. out of 3 ways for scoring, Barca uses only 1 way (possession)
2. and then, normal football teams have midfielders who can give an additional push in shooting and scoring

So, normal teams have 4 things:
1. chances from possession
2. chances from counters
3. chances from crosses+headers
4. midfielders who can create, shoot and score

What does Barca have?
1. chances from possession
What we don't have?
1. chances from counters
2. chances from crosses/headers
3. shots from midfielders

What is worse, we have Messi to mask our onedimensional attacking play.
When you remove Messi, like yesterday, what you have?
= a team which can create only through the ground, and even then we suck at it
2. counters, no
3. crosses, no
4. shots from midfielders, no

And then people tell me: we need a midfield Arthur-Frenkie which will do nothing in the attacking 3rd.
And then we will pass the ball to a bunch of attackers who again can do nothing against a parked bus, if Messi is not on a field.
And even if Messi IS on a field, we will again be able to score only from Messi's solo magic or from 1-2s and possession.
No wonder that any European team can neutralize us easily when we attack in such a onedimensional way.

Now remember:
Atletico 1:0
Atletico 2:0
Psg 4:0
Juve 3:0
Roma 3:0
Liverpool 4:0

Against Roma and Liverpool we didn't have midfield, fine.
But against Atletico, Psg and Juve, we DID have the midfield and still couldn't create real chances because we are creating chances only in one way: Through the ground, through the middle, where opponents have 5-6-7-8 players at the edge of a box in two rows of 4+4 players.

Since we talked about Croatia, now remember how they were creating chances if they struggled to dominate teams in the middle:
= Through counters and through crosses and headers where there is always some weird ricochet and lose balls just waiting to be hit into the net:
Croatia:England:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi_2GELMwfY

Croatia:Russia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjU8j2bj3RY

I don't see any resemblance between Croatia's and Barca's skillset.
Barca has better players, but can attack in only one way.

BBZ dude I would have to write an assay to answer all of your claims since I don't agree with majority of them.

1. We had only one true workhorse and that's Brozovic who is dumb as fuck but he was used properly. Raki was the same Raki we have here.
2. Barca has MANY options in attack but unfortunately with this manager we have ZERO. Claiming that we have only one option in attack with Messi, Suarez, Dembele and Griezmann is funny though. We can play possession with MSG we can counter with Dembele and Griezmann we can play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or. 4-2-3-1 but fuck it we don't have a 32y old Mandjukic who was almost benched for fucking Kalinic before that WC so we can not cross.
3. If we get Neymar back we will have 2 PURE wingers but NOTHING will change so I don't agree on winger thing. During Pep era Villa played on the wing and that worked out pretty well so I don't see your point on Perisic beeing more of an winger than Griezmann.
4. If everything you said is true than WHY THOSE THINGS HAVEN'T WORKED UOT UNDER CACIC? Can you elaborate that? If manager is not important than how come our team looked like pure garbage only few months before that WC under different manager? Why do you think our players weren't motivated back then? We almost didn't qualify! We lost to Island and Turkey, we could win agains Finland at home dude! Did you forget about that? Where was Perisic than? Or that world class workhorse midfield?

Saying that Croatia is a well balanced team is absolutely wrong. Our CB's who had a great tournament are anything but special, or LB's are a joke but than again they played a great tournament, and we had two LW and no RW in the squad. We also had only ONE proper attacker and Kramaric a player whose ideal position on the field is still unknown to many of us. The truth is that our team was coached properly and that we had a great midfield mainly because of that Modric-Rakitic connection but saying that we had a well balanced team is far from the truth. MY POINT IS THAT MANAGING OF THE TEAM IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING AND YOU KNOW IT. Bare in mind that team management consist not only of tactical and physical preparation but also of psychological one and thats something Valverde lacks even more than football knowledge. He is one of the most uninspiring managers I have ever seen in my life and that's probably his biggest issue.

I can't comprehend that you keep on claiming that players are our biggest problems when it's obvious as fuck that our problem lies with Valverde! Do you for example think Valverde would reach CL semmis with Ajax or Tottenham?

Oh an one more thing, CL is not our biggest problem! Our biggest problem is the way we play. I bet you 90% of people here wouldn't be angry as they are right now if we lost against Lpool but actually showed something and played our true style. There is NOTHING to be excited about right now, absolutely nothing since we look like a broken army and that's 100% on Valverde and NOT PLAYERS but you keep on talking about workhorses. If you think players don't run because they don't want just look how many kilometers will FDJ run here in comparison to Ajax and that will maybe open your eyes.

Our problem is obvious and simple, and no I don't claim that under Klopp or Pep we would won 3 trebles in a row but I bet we would play some sexy-ass football with this team for sure. I also bet you that Coutinho wouldn't be loaned to Bayern under any sane manager but hey stupid Dembele and lack of workhorses are our main problems.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
EV is shit.

How can you say this and still don't understand that the manager being shit infects all the areas of a team in an irrecoverable way.

Our situation is the same as Madrid's situation in 2016 under Benitez. Exactly the same.

Back then there were also people who shat over all the Madrid squad as being 'past it', 'done', filled with 'overrated players'. That was proven to be way off base and way false. A good manager stepped in and the same players started to turn the ship around becoming the best team in Europe.

Our problem is the board is passive and refused to sack a proven mediocre manager, because Messi, as you say, did what he does best: lead us to La Liga wins. Since when is ok to use Messi to excuse the bad football a manager has his team playing?

Does Messi disappear if we fire the clown? No. Does Messi not produce anymore in La Liga if we send this guy packing? No. Is Valverde the manager that had Messi playing at this level? Lol no.
 
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Gaudi

Senior Member
I mean he says after the match we lacked ideas in attack, really??? I mean what is our solution: add Frenkie, Griez and NEy???
But they suck right? Who should we add? SAdio Mane? He would look like an idiot compared to Dembele? Firmino? YOu think he would be able to look better than Suarez surrounded by 4 players?
CR would just waive his hands arround without getting the ball, Pogba (add smilies here) he would look like an amateur in this type of "system".
Dembele sucks, Coutinho sucks, Suarez sucks, Arthur sucks, Semedo sucks even Frenkie looked without any ideas yesterday (couple of matches like this and he'll suck as well), Alba sucks...point is EVERYONE sucks in this non system!
 

serghei

Senior Member
I mean he says after the match we lacked ideas in attack, really??? I mean what is our solution: add Frenkie, Griez and NEy???
But they suck right? Who should we add? SAdio Mane? He would look like an idiot compared to Dembele? Firmino? YOu think he would be able to look better than Suarez surrounded by 4 players?
CR would just waive his hands arround without getting the ball, Pogba (add smilies here) he would look like an amateur in this type of "system".
Dembele sucks, Coutinho sucks, Suarez sucks, Arthur sucks, Semedo sucks even Frenkie looked without any ideas yesterday (couple of matches like this and he'll suck as well), Alba sucks...point is EVERYONE sucks in this non system!

Every single user should right now understand this simple fact. Players can not perform at their best level under a crap manager. It's that simple. That is why managers get fired at top clubs. This is the no1 reason for why that happens.

Not because they don't have the resource to play top football, but because they don't know how to best use the great players they have.

It is also a fact, and I have said this before, that NONE of our managers except Pep in the last 15 years has ever been hunted by another top club. Not even 1. Even Rijkhaard didn't have any good job offers post Barcelona. He trained Galatasaray and Saudi Arabia after us. Laughable.

Time to cut the shit, stop being smart asses, and bring ourselves someone who has proven that he can cut it at top level.
 
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Raketa10

Senior Member
I mean he says after the match we lacked ideas in attack, really??? I mean what is our solution: add Frenkie, Griez and NEy???
But they suck right? Who should we add? SAdio Mane? He would look like an idiot compared to Dembele? Firmino? YOu think he would be able to look better than Suarez surrounded by 4 players?
CR would just waive his hands arround without getting the ball, Pogba (add smilies here) he would look like an amateur in this type of "system".
Dembele sucks, Coutinho sucks, Suarez sucks, Arthur sucks, Semedo sucks even Frenkie looked without any ideas yesterday (couple of matches like this and he'll suck as well), Alba sucks...point is EVERYONE sucks in this non system!

This! Now give him Neymar so he can suck too! Fuck, sign him Mbappe, Mane and Firminho because players we have are not enough for Don Ernesto! Fuck it man you can't outplay Bilbao with 39y od Aduriz without adding more stars and WORKHORSES to our team!
 

Gaudi

Senior Member
This! Now give him Neymar so he can suck too! Fuck, sign him Mbappe, Mane and Firminho because players we have are not enough for Don Ernesto! Fuck it man you can't outplay Bilbao with 39y od Aduriz without adding more stars and WORKHORSES to our team!


Mbappe with this slow motion game, without space...man, he would beg Dembele for advice how to play:lol:
 

Devils

Senior Member
Watching Arsenal right now...It would be nice if we could play like Arsenal, dawg.

Incredible we are at this reality.
 

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