Ernesto Valverde

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

He scored 40 plus goals and had 15 assists in his second worst season

And scored a hat-trick in Bernabeu El clasico

That's enough individual level success under a bang average manager.

If you say 'proven himself' he needs to play on his usual level. 13-14 he had good numbers but was in terms of dribbling and finishing waaaay worse than his usual standards.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Valverde isn't going to manage a top 5 club again. One who thinks that is delusional. Don't even see him managing Spain NT, not with the current young core.

If Lucho doesnt at least get into semifinal in WC i think Spain will fire him and there aren't many options...

 

[CatalinR10]

wowowowowow what is going on here in the last pages guys ?



Prediction :


Either he will accept a job for a mediocre mid table team or he will be jobless for the next 4 years.

 

[KingLeo10]

Amazing how system/manager reliant fraud Messi managed to fraud his way to:

760 goals
350 assists
36 trophies
6 European golden shoes
7 Ballon D'Ors

I hope I can defraud the world to this level one day.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

wowowowowow what is going on here in the last pages guys ?



Prediction :


Either he will accept a job for a mediocre mid table team or he will be jobless for the next 4 years.

mediocre is below EV level

 

[OGbarca]

Please stop this game now.

Messi has over a decade of elite play under different managers. You know that it is nonsense to compare him with Valverde's three year stint at Barca.

Like I said, he simply does not have the resume to suggest he's a great or an elite manager. Until he gets that there's honestly no discussion in my eyes.

a three-year stint at a club like barcelona (or real, or bayern) is not something one can dismiss so easily. managers 'stick around' for much less time than players (at least generally) so its not clear to me that it can put so casually. zidane's 3 peat was also during three years. but you wouldnt dismiss that, would you?

i still havent heard how EV is only 'good' relative to what was possible at the time, i.e., what was realistically possible for us. especially considering how things deteriorated to abysmal depths after he left, and that only now, several years later, do we have something going for us.

even Pep's departure didnt sink us despite his (you will agree) status as an elite manager.

 

[CatalinR10]

mediocre is below EV level

well good luck to him refusing reality and staying jobless for another few years.


Not that he really cares tho , he struck jackpot with the money Barca gave him for his time as a manager and the +20 mil or whatever he got when he was fired for his disastrous performance as a coach.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Amazing how system/manager reliant fraud Messi managed to fraud his way to:

760 goals
350 assists
36 trophies
6 European golden shoes
7 Ballon D'Ors

I hope I can defraud the world to this level one day.

Now look at the statistics from EV in la liga and especially against Real and tell me he isn't a great coach

 

[Messigician]

Amazing how system/manager reliant fraud Messi managed to fraud his way to:

760 goals
350 assists
36 trophies
6 European golden shoes
7 Ballon D'Ors

I hope I can defraud the world to this level one day.

But how much of it was Barca?

It was a perfect symbiosis, Messi benefited from Barca as much as we benefited from him.

His performances for Argentina and PSG tell a story of a Messi without Barca helping him to GOAT status

 

[KingLeo10]

OG himself has a 100 plus posts ridiculing EV worse than he's ridiculed Messi last couple of years.

I understand your explanation is that you changed "opinions", but it's like calling someone a murderer for years only to anoint them a saint a couple years later.

Opinions change but not that much. What's more plausible is that you decided that part of your shitting on Messi act necessitated bigging up EV.

Too transparent, my lad.

 

[Laplacian]

Amazing how system/manager reliant fraud Messi managed to fraud his way to:

760 goals
350 assists
36 trophies
6 European golden shoes
7 Ballon D'Ors

I hope I can defraud the world to this level one day.

Im confused, i dont usually keep up with these shit messi debates but do people here unironically believe messi is a system player

 

[OGbarca]

another way of putting this is that while i agree with your assessment of EV's merits and flaws, his success relative to our direct competitors (CL-repeating real) and the alternatives (the disasters that were setien and koeman) lead me to rate his time with barca (at least) as more than simply 'good'--as phenomenal, really.

i think its possible to say that EV and messi complemented each other nicely--EV keeping the defence tight, maintaining some sort of balance among the amigos, messi performing at really high levels, and that both were necessary for our successes during those years

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

well good luck to him refusing reality and staying jobless for another few years.


Not that he really cares tho , he struck jackpot with the money Barca gave him for his time as a manager and the +20 mil or whatever he got when he was fired for his disastrous performance as a coach.

lol just saw your signature

The question is, is Ev the one denying reality or are we the ones who don't see his genius?

 

[OGbarca]

OG himself has a 100 plus posts ridiculing EV worse than he's ridiculed Messi last couple of years.

I understand your explanation is that you changed "opinions", but it's like calling someone a murderer for years only to anoint them a saint a couple years later.

Opinions change but not that much. What's more plausible is that you decided that part of your shitting on Messi act necessitated bigging up EV.

Too transparent, my lad.

eh? why revert to attacks based on character and post history once more? we are just discussing ev here, in a civil way mind you, there is no need to muddy the waters with stuff like this

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

OG himself has a 100 plus posts ridiculing EV worse than he's ridiculed Messi last couple of years.

I understand your explanation is that you changed "opinions", but it's like calling someone a murderer for years only to anoint them a saint a couple years later.

Opinions change but not that much. What's more plausible is that you decided that part of your shitting on Messi act necessitated bigging up EV.

Too transparent, my lad.

Before the season had started you said PSG will win at least one cl next two years, now after you saw them you have changed your opinion completely....sometimes Kl dude the reality teaches us better